EPTCasting Language Standards - Page 10
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Dhystopia
United States27 Posts
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4of8
Germany256 Posts
Beside this small logical error I find it a good thing what you do, watching SC2 with your kids, is something, that a lot more parents should do. Not because SC2 is such a fantastic game, its more about knowing what your kids watch in the TV/Internet etc. I think we can all agree, the swearing thing seems to be mainly a problem for americans. Even if I don't understand the argumentation behind it, I think the casters should be aware of the fact, the bigger the viewership gets the more should they think about what they are saying, because SC2/esports should be a thing everyone can enjoy. I don't think they should stop completely swearing but reduce it to a minimum. Sidenote for Tasteless: Don't tell the audience Santa Claus doesn't exist  | ||
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Ighox
Norway580 Posts
On May 25 2011 02:40 GagnarTheUnruly wrote: Why make it harder than it needs to be? Where is the good reason to use bad language on tournament casts? Because it's like the only thing that makes SC2 fun to watch right now, like 2gd and dreamhack, it was the most awesome SC2 event ever because of his terrible jokes and language that you think should be censored. I'd possibly agree with you if SC2 was televised on national television and watched by a ton of people, like in SK. But it's really far from being at that point, it's still just a small niche audience (and that's not because of the language casters use), so right now there might be 100k nerds watching that loves the language, while 7 people wants it to be censored, the 100k should get priority. Would be pretty ironic if SC2 e-sports lost popularity simply because they started catering to people who doesn't watch it and tried to make it much more professional than it is. (I think most of this discussion is also because many US people got sandy vaginas, not many countries are the same way and in most countries the kids that are old enough to understand english casting are old enough to hear those "bad words". If it ever gets televised in the US (or anywhere else where people want to censor it), then sure do it but international streams should remain like they are.) @the OP's idea of slapping a T/M/whatever tag on official tournaments wouldn't be a bad idea though and wouldn't hurt anyone so I don't really see a problem with that at all. On May 25 2011 03:31 Treemonkeys wrote: Also since some people are bringing it up as if it's some extreme: GSL already censors out the blood in their casts.. GSL only does that because korean SC2 doesn't have red blood, smoking or profanity, it's not like it's a choice by GOMTV. | ||
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Demonace34
United States2493 Posts
On May 25 2011 03:37 Fission wrote: I 100% agree. There's no reason why casters need to make crude, offensive, or vulgar jokes either - it doesn't add anything to the cast. Tastosis manages to be funny without resorting to that, I don't see why casters for large tournaments like NASL/IPL/GSL etc need to use that kind of language. Nobody (except for the parents) would even notice if they just used clean language, so why not do it? At the very least I would hope that some kind of rating system could be implemented. I find the hypocrisy in this thread a bit sickening, to be honest. On one hand, so many people on this forum are waving the "esports" flag around at every possible opportunity, doing their best to make "esports" big in the west, but when somebody comes around making a very minor and reasonable request (rating system) you all jump all over him. He didn't come here asking for parenting advice, that's his business. Your opinion of whether or not a 10 year old should hear crude sexual jokes and swearing is completely irrelevant, in fact. The fact is that the language IS a barrier of entry for some people, and that we might consider doing something about that. The point people are making is it is a 12+ game, and even under that rating it allows for infrequent strong language, violence etc. The OP is worried more about the language than addressing another issue which is the violence and killing aspect of Starcraft 2. I would encourage anyone complaining about cursing in this thread to link/make a youtube video that shows all the slip ups of cursing and blatant sexual jokes (in which 12yo and younger could actually decipher) in major tournaments. Out of all the tournaments I've watched since last August, I can count maybe 5-10 occurrences (2 or 3 of them being Jinro interviews lol). | ||
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Fission
Canada1184 Posts
On May 25 2011 03:42 Ighox wrote: Because it's like the only thing that makes SC2 fun to watch right now, like 2gd and dreamhack, it was the most awesome SC2 event ever because of his terrible jokes and language that you think should be censored. I'd possibly agree with you if SC2 was televised on national television and watched by a ton of people, like in SK. But it's really far from being at that point, it's still just a small niche audience (and that's not because of the language casters use), so right now there might be 100k nerds watching that loves the language, while 7 people wants it to be censored, the 100k should get priority. Would be pretty ironic if SC2 e-sports lost popularity simply because they started catering to people who doesn't watch it and tried to make it much more professional than it is. (I think most of this discussion is also because many US people got sandy vaginas, not many countries are the same way and in most countries the kids that are old enough to understand english casting are old enough to hear those "bad words". If it ever gets televised in the US (or anywhere else where people want to censor it), then sure do it but international streams should remain like they are.) @the OP's idea of slapping a T/M/whatever tag on official tournaments wouldn't be a bad idea though and wouldn't hurt anyone so I don't really see a problem with that at all.. Are you serious? | ||
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dOofuS
United States342 Posts
On May 25 2011 03:28 TotalBiscuit wrote: Somehow I don't think maturity is something you're qualified to discuss. On the subject of the, well subject. Swearing while as far as I'm concerned, irrelevant, doesn't add anything to a broadcast and usuall indicates a lack of diverse vocabulary on the part of the person using it. It doesn't have any place in broadcast sports, e or otherwise. Pretty much my sentiments. If e-sports really wants to become professional, it needs to adopt the same practices of today's current sports broadcasts. I know when I watch ESPN I'm not going to hear foul language, and I can feel comfortable watching it in anyone's company. I agree with the topic starter, and Chill's initial response. Personal player's streams and special programming (Day9 Dailies, SoTG, etc.) are free game, at the content creator's discretion. For tournaments however, I expect higher standards. If you want more viewers, if you want to portray professionalism, and if you want to support the growth of e-sports, it's in the tournaments best interest to appeal to ALL audiences. | ||
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Vardant
Czech Republic620 Posts
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mordek
United States12705 Posts
On May 25 2011 03:39 Dhystopia wrote: If a parent wants to find appropriate content they could be a bit more proactive and screen content like VODs beforehand to make sure it fits their standards. It's better for parents to not have to rely on other people to do their job for them. This would solve the problem by itself and we wouldn't have to worry about "labeling" all content. That's an unreasonable amount of time to ask of a parent... Content similar to SC2 casts and vods use the rating system. Heck, I think JP has a Parental Advisory label for SotG on his iTunes. It's not that difficult to assign at least a ballpark value to whether the content is mature. There's plenty of people in my life that aren't in the scene but may be opposed to it if there's gratuitous swearing. I'd love to be able to show them streams or vods (Day9 for example) but a lot of times I decide not to. Regardless, this is about asking for a labelling system that is standard for all organizations streaming StarCraft. Sounds perfectly reasonable, [i][even if you are opposed to the idea of censorship/i]. | ||
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Blondinbengt
Sweden578 Posts
On May 25 2011 03:44 dOofuS wrote: Pretty much my sentiments. If e-sports really wants to become professional, it needs to adopt the same practices of today's current sports broadcasts. I know when I watch ESPN I'm not going to hear foul language, and I can feel comfortable watching it in anyone's company. I agree with the topic starter, and Chill's initial response. Personal player's streams and special programming (Day9 Dailies, SoTG, etc.) are free game, at the content creator's discretion. For tournaments however, I expect higher standards. If you want more viewers, if you want to portray professionalism, and if you want to support the growth of e-sports, it's in the tournaments best interest to appeal to ALL audiences. That's the american standard though, I can tell you that the swedish standard is completely different. | ||
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Mordiford
4448 Posts
On May 25 2011 01:51 Chill wrote: Just because there's one thing we can't control doesn't mean we shouldn't worry about what we can control. But shouldn't we be consistent in our control? This makes no sense to me, if they're going to be seeing blood and gore, we should at least make it so they can't hear the occasional swear word? I don't think any organization has really gone overboard in this regard... I can't think of a single one, perhaps the NASL with it's When Cheese Fails bit but that was a one-time thing. Other than that the casting has been fine, there is an rare F-bomb here and there and I'm fine with that. Why should we worry about the content of the cast, provided it's in line with the age expectation for the violence on screen? The casting should have a lower age expectation than the events on screen? That makes no sense to me, it's almost like shipping a violent movie but going to the MPAA and being like, "We took out the swear words, so it's a PG right?". If children are watching something that's age inappropriate in terms of violence, why regulate the commentary, currently all commentary for major events that I've seen matches the age expectation for the content on screen. | ||
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TehForce
1072 Posts
Well no. Just relax US guys, just relax. Your kids wont die if they hear a dirty joke (which they probably just wont get) or hear F***. Really, i promise! | ||
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zasda
381 Posts
Certainly not the only thing but a lot of it. Anyway, how many times have people heard someone say fuck etc INTENTIONALLY? on a cast? Even in interviews it's been like less than 5 so I don't see how cursing is a problem, even for americans. But I guess it would be good to slap the same age restriction on tournaments as the game has. Kinda like telling not to microwave ur cat to dry it tbh though imo. | ||
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Offhand
United States1869 Posts
On May 25 2011 03:30 Vardant wrote: That's where you're wrong. The violence is still there. So if anything you can expect the maturity level of a cast to increase. The game's violence should also be a larger concern than any bad word or innuendo. But some people live in a fantasy world where that isn't the case so I guess this is a pretty dumb argument. | ||
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
What I learned from this thread actually has real applications. This thread makes it clear that maturity and empathy have a positive correlation. Thanks. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
even 5 year old guys say "fuck u" not knowing what it means and not even can speak english ^^ i still think usa thinks to much about it (same like seeing boobs etc and its 18years+ and in europe its free for 6+ ^^) | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
1) The ESRB does not rate the online experience of a game. The T rating is irrelevant and applies to the singleplayer component only. Who is to say why? Maybe it's the fact that the single-player deals with crass treachery, genocide, the slaughter of innocent civilians and god knows what else that lead to that rating? 2) To the people claiming his kids shouldn't be watching Starcraft. Are you serious? Please don't tell me you're the same people wanting eSports to grow. Of course kids should be watching sports, ideally, eSports would be a family and friends event just like any real sport. It's some way off, that's for sure, but isn't that the goal? 3) To a lot of people, fantasy make-believe violence is less of a concern than swearing. I can see their point, kids play with toy guns and pretend to kill each other all the time, from the age of toddlers. What is the difference? | ||
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Thrombozyt
Germany1269 Posts
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bigbeau
368 Posts
On May 25 2011 03:56 Jayrod wrote: At first I was thinking this is a difficult forum for this discussion because, in general, even the younger players who play starcraft 2 write pretty well (see Pokebunny). I was thinking it would be hard to get a feel for what perspective people were posting their opinion from... What I learned from this thread actually has real applications. This thread makes it clear that maturity and empathy have a positive correlation. Thanks. I think it's more what YOU deem maturity would be all the people who agree with you and have the same point of view, whether or not that view is correct, and, therefore, are more like to have empathy for your situation, because they agree with you. | ||
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Vardant
Czech Republic620 Posts
On May 25 2011 04:00 TotalBiscuit wrote: A few things to consider. 1) It was already pointed out, that the rating includes the graphic violence that is there even in MP, so the rating can't get any lower than that. 2) If I'm a fan of Mixed martial arts. Should I tell my kids to watch that? Is the growth really that important? Are you serious? 3) The difference is, that you can actually see people die in horrible ways as they scream in Starcraft? How can you even ask that question? You could even use the same argument for movies and TV shows. It's obviously only made-up thing, who would believe that right? Yet, we have ratings for that, ratings, that some parents actually follow... | ||
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Laurence
Ireland119 Posts
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