|
On May 21 2011 22:25 Nimic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 19:27 WesternProblem wrote:
Foreigners are lazy. They do not deserve free invites.
How is it not worth it to go?
ALL EXPENSE PAID
Practice on the ladder, with pros
Get to play against the best in GSL
Whats not good about it? Scared youll lose? So what? Its free!
Dont give me that bullshit excuse that "I could make more staying in NA/EU, I wont get to be around my friends and family blah blah"
That attitude is exactly why foreigners sucked in brood war and were unable to compete on the same level as koreans (Dont even bring up Ret/Idra, sure they were on proteams by were still terrible)
Foreigners just want to have their cake and eat it too without having to do anything.
If SC2 ever takes off and gets to BW pro level and Koreans sponsors are willing to fly out their players to compete in international tourneys, the foreigner scene will die just like it did in BW because when it comes down to practice KR > *
Also LOL @ making Code A an online tournament, you are aware GOM broadcasts it on TV right? Oh hey let me just tune in to my match and "stream cheat" or turn on ma map hacks. And what about pauses etc, think about these things first. They don't broadcast GSL on TV, actually.
I think his point is that it is an offline, live-broadcasted event. It is part of what makes GSL stand above the other tournaments. You see the players walking in and out of their booths and a big crowd cheering for them in a nicely decorated studio/stadium, everything in live. It adds a ton of excitement and it also makes the tournament cheat-proof.
I do think Xeris should have been more informed himself before making a huge post like this especially considering he is a well known, highly respected figure in the sc2 community and a lot of people would naturally accept his words without any questioning. See, here's a good example:
On May 22 2011 02:44 StoLiVe wrote:Great read as always  thanks Xeris. Someone should translate this into korean and post it to PlayXP for the korean understand why we don't go to his event
This thread was made 5 days after the MLG-GSL partnership was announced and I would think that is an ample time to read over the details.
|
Great read as always thanks Xeris.
Someone should translate this into korean and post it to PlayXP for the korean understand why we don't go to his event
|
The return flights we book doesn't cost anything near to 3.000$. :-) If they are bought in advances (+2 weeks), they cost under the half of that.
|
On May 22 2011 02:44 StoLiVe wrote:Great read as always thanks Xeris. Someone should translate this into korean and post it to PlayXP for the korean understand why we don't go to his event
Please not, we'll look like fools, this article is basing itself on wrong facts. I really hope he update it.
Right now the article is saying "I don't want to travel by plane because I hate to pedal"
|
Xeris always writes the most intelligent, thought provoking threads/posts.
|
I have tried to understand the GSL format but after they introduced "code" ranking, I have no idea how the thing works. Its unfortunate how its hard for pro non-korean gamers to go to the StarCraft mecca, but I think non korean tournaments will outweigh korean tournaments in the future. korea is now only a small part of the SC2 universe. 1000th post, sup?
|
On May 21 2011 22:25 Nimic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 19:27 WesternProblem wrote:
Foreigners are lazy. They do not deserve free invites.
How is it not worth it to go?
ALL EXPENSE PAID
Practice on the ladder, with pros
Get to play against the best in GSL
Whats not good about it? Scared youll lose? So what? Its free!
Dont give me that bullshit excuse that "I could make more staying in NA/EU, I wont get to be around my friends and family blah blah"
That attitude is exactly why foreigners sucked in brood war and were unable to compete on the same level as koreans (Dont even bring up Ret/Idra, sure they were on proteams by were still terrible)
Foreigners just want to have their cake and eat it too without having to do anything.
If SC2 ever takes off and gets to BW pro level and Koreans sponsors are willing to fly out their players to compete in international tourneys, the foreigner scene will die just like it did in BW because when it comes down to practice KR > *
Also LOL @ making Code A an online tournament, you are aware GOM broadcasts it on TV right? Oh hey let me just tune in to my match and "stream cheat" or turn on ma map hacks. And what about pauses etc, think about these things first. They don't broadcast GSL on TV, actually.
Your wrong since january it is being broadcast on Anibox, also seasons are being rebroadcast on arira tv (something like that cant remember the name)
|
On May 22 2011 04:22 broz0rs wrote:
Xeris always writes the most intelligent, thought provoking threads/posts.
Well unfortunately so many people place so much faith in him even when he posts the wrong information. When this post was created we already knew that MLG winner would get a spot into code s, this shouldnt be stated as a proposed solution as it is already happening. Also 2 days after this thread was created news came out that GSL changed their format. Now code a round of 32 and round of 16 happen over the period of 5 days, so by the end of 5 days you will know weather or not you will be getting a chance at the up and down matches for code s or not.
What this means is that an all expenses paid trip to korea is totally worth it (another thing xeris stated wrong, the trip is all expenses paid not just flight and accomodation.) because at the very worst you spend 5 days(it will only be 4 days unless your in the last code a group) in korea to try out code a and then you can go home, no loss to you because it is all expenses paid, and at the very best you get a chance at the up and down matches and spend 2 and a half weeks there, neither of those are huge commitments and you wont be missing out on much, and in return you will be getting a chance to compete in the most competitive tournament in the world.
I honestly dont see anything negative about this, that is why i feel xeris's post is totally backwards in most aspects and is just trying to nitpick negative things that either arent true or dont matter anymore because of the gsl format change.
The post is completely misinformed im surpised at the amount of people that just chose to read this post to get their information about the MLG exchange program instead of reading the official one wich provides the correct information.
|
The main problems are the Code A prize pool being too small and the prize pools in general being too top heavy. And the lack of events to play in. The GSL season drags on and on and there's no other events to play in so I really feel bad for the Koreans. They have basically 1 good tournament going on at a time, and they have to play at retarded hours cross-server in order to make a name for themselves in SC2.
|
On May 18 2011 04:56 Xeris wrote:
So think about it: any non Korean's flight cost to Korea is $1,200 - $1,800 most likely. You need a ticket to Korea, then to MLG, and then back to Korea. That's almost $3,000 in flight cost, not to count the massive amount of jet lag that will result and more than likely lead to poor enough play to have anyone who would dare to go through that journey be eliminated early from both tournaments.
I thought that was the whole point of sponsorship was to cover flight costs? If your sponsors don't think GSL/MLG are worth the cost, then what's the point of having them? Also, the prices for tickets you list are ridiculous. I fly to Taiwan almost every year and even when I book only 2-3 weeks in advance, I've never paid more than 1k round trip. Usually it's only 700-800 USD. I just searched on Orbitz for a flight leaving TOMORROW to SEOUL and could secure a 1k round trip from multiple airlines.
The second problem is that foreign players were notified of the tournament just about a week and a half ago. Moving to Korea is no small task, there are a LOT of things a team needs to do in order to make a trip to Korea. Funding this trip isn't a simple task, letters and proposals need to be written to sponsors in order to secure extra funding, flights and possibly VISAS need to be arranged, and a plan needs to be planned and executed. The fact that GOM notified foreign players basically three weeks before they would need to actually go to Korea leaves teams and organizations a VERY limited time to make accommodations. Personally, this is why Fnatic decided not to send its players -- we didn't receive enough advance notice to get everything ready.
The same thing happened for the GSL World Championships. Everything was so rushed and felt "last minute," and we didn't get enough out of the trip.
This is legitimate. GOM needs to send earlier notice.
Why are the foreigners leaving Korea
It's way too difficult to live the Korean life unless you are in Code S. The journey to qualify for Code S is not worth the time and energy it would take to have players live there. Yes, GOM has a "foreign" house, so players wouldn't have to worry about housing, but there are so many other factors to consider: acclimating to culture, time zone, and most importantly, practice. A player who doesn't have good practice partners or schedules will not be successful in Korea. The GOM house doesn't provide this. The house is made available, and then players are left to their own devices to practice.
Most of the Korean pro houses are full -- I know because when discussing sending Fnatic players to Korea, the major problem was where/how would the players get good training. We looked into moving into pro houses, but most are full. Spending a lot of money to send people to live in Korea just to practice on the Korean ladder is not productive.
Not sure what you expect GOM's responsibility to be. If hypothetically NASL required people to LIVE in North America (like some people such as Catz have 'suggested') then would you think it would be NASL's responsibility to house, acclimate and find practice partners for European and Korean participants?
Yes, there are hardships to moving to another country, especially one that is radically different culturally than your own. However, people who complain about the 'Korea Situation' such as yourself make it out as if GOM is using this adjustment difficulty against foreigners or something, or that it is something within their control. There isn't some giant conspiracy to 'keep the white man down' in Korea.
What can GOM do to help?
In my opinion there are two potential solutions here.
1) Make Code A an online tournament. If it was online, foreign participation would increase dramatically. It doesn't even need to be an open system, it could be done entirely on application and GOM could accept only the best/most qualified foreigners who apply. It could also be done during Korean hours and on the Korean server; this could be somewhat of a bittersweet revenge for Koreans, let the foreigners play at 3-4am for a change! This would work because foreigners would only have to worry about going to Korea if they qualified for Code S.
2) Invite foreigners directly into Code S. A good exchange program would be to invite a first placed foreign player at MLG to Code S. This way there is a huge incentive now for a foreigner to actually go to Korea. In fact, as mentioned on State of the Game, a direct Code S invite does appeal a lot more to foreign pros than a Code A invite. This way, you actually get foreigners to Korea -- if they lose in Code S, they might be more tempted to stick around to play through Code A to qualify again for Code S. Getting them directly into Code S is sort of like a "foot in the door" method and might increase the chances of foreigner retention in Korea.
These suggestions are good, although MLG is probably the worst choice for a qualifying tournament. If anything, GSL should either outsource or setup mini qualifying tournaments in Europe/North America to be placed into Code S/A.
What else?
Korea is amazing. I've watched all the GSL final events, and love them. The foreign fans love the Korean tournaments. If the GSL wants to become truly global however, more concessions need to be made to make the highest echelons more accessible to foreign players. It can't be a one way street. So far, no Korean has ever had to qualify for a foreign event, but every single foreign has had to qualify for a Korean event. This is a big problem!
Once again, this is the victim mentality that you and Catz try to paint. Guess what? Every single KOREAN has to qualify for GSL's events as well. Though you have some good points, I'm bothered by the tone of your post as a whole. Basically you want everything to be easier for you (or rather, your players.) Fact of the matter is that players like Jinro and Huk can do it. If you/your players aren't willing to make that sacrifice, then don't.
|
On May 20 2011 21:53 Rabbitmaster wrote:
Nice write-up! Personally i don't see why any "foreigner" would want to go to GSL... The price money is horrible compared to being able to participate in all the EU/NA tournaments.
How so? look at the top earners for starcraft 2 since launch or even in the past few months, any korean who has placed in the top 8 in a gsl or 2 is going to have made more money then players placing first in tournaments in the west. So i dont really see your point that and big money tournaments like NASL have koreans who are doing well in them so they arent missing out on that either. Also NASL lasts three months with 100k prize pool , 2 gsl's and a super tournament will have happened during that time oh and the LG cinema 3d tournament that is unrelated to the gsl wich is happening next month with a first place prize of 38k. those 4 tournaments equal to close to 500k easy that is more money than probably all the prize pools combined over the past 6-7 months in the west if not longer.
|
On May 22 2011 02:29 Sein wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 22:25 Nimic wrote:On May 21 2011 19:27 WesternProblem wrote:
Foreigners are lazy. They do not deserve free invites.
How is it not worth it to go?
ALL EXPENSE PAID
Practice on the ladder, with pros
Get to play against the best in GSL
Whats not good about it? Scared youll lose? So what? Its free!
Dont give me that bullshit excuse that "I could make more staying in NA/EU, I wont get to be around my friends and family blah blah"
That attitude is exactly why foreigners sucked in brood war and were unable to compete on the same level as koreans (Dont even bring up Ret/Idra, sure they were on proteams by were still terrible)
Foreigners just want to have their cake and eat it too without having to do anything.
If SC2 ever takes off and gets to BW pro level and Koreans sponsors are willing to fly out their players to compete in international tourneys, the foreigner scene will die just like it did in BW because when it comes down to practice KR > *
Also LOL @ making Code A an online tournament, you are aware GOM broadcasts it on TV right? Oh hey let me just tune in to my match and "stream cheat" or turn on ma map hacks. And what about pauses etc, think about these things first. They don't broadcast GSL on TV, actually. I think his point is that it is an offline, live-broadcasted event. It is part of what makes GSL stand above the other tournaments. You see the players walking in and out of their booths and a big crowd cheering for them in a nicely decorated studio/stadium, everything in live. It adds a ton of excitement and it also makes the tournament cheat-proof. I do think Xeris should have been more informed himself before making a huge post like this especially considering he is a well known, highly respected figure in the sc2 community and a lot of people would naturally accept his words without any questioning. See, here's a good example: Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 02:44 StoLiVe wrote:Great read as always thanks Xeris. Someone should translate this into korean and post it to PlayXP for the korean understand why we don't go to his event This thread was made 5 days after the MLG-GSL partnership was announced and I would think that is an ample time to read over the details.
I agree, the amount of people that just blindly accept what xeris says as truth is astonishing, and i really wish he would take the time to edit his post or that he would have taken the time to read up on what he was planning on talking about in his OP. Even now after there are pages and page of myself and others pointing out what is wrong with this post people are still blindly agreeing with him, its rather unfortunate.
I also wish the mods would take this post out of the spotlight threads until it reflects true facts regarding the exchange program and the gsl format, as its rather misleading to people and pretty much sheds a negative light on korea for no reason at this point.
|
Why even complain. GSL always trying to give foreigners a handicap yet we still complain. Not their fault foreigners don`t perform well in GSL. I think the finger pointing should be on the foreign scene, where pro gaming and teams isn`t as developed. Just look at the prize pools of foreigner tournaments (aside from NASL now).
|
On May 22 2011 08:58 mango_destroyer wrote:
Why even complain. GSL always trying to give foreigners a handicap yet we still complain. Not their fault foreigners don`t perform well in GSL. I think the finger pointing should be on the foreign scene, where pro gaming and teams isn`t as developed. Just look at the prize pools of foreigner tournaments (aside from NASL now).
agreed and even NASL is less than half of the GSL , gsl prize pool is somewhere around 125k and by the time NASL ends the gsl will have had around 2 and a half tournaments totalling somewhere around 350k in prize money (obviously that number is higher than usual over the same period because of the super tournament and this number doesnt include gstl)
Korea is going totally out of its way to help foreigners get into the GSL, seeds into code and code S(for first place) from MLG , a pro gaming house specifically for foreigners plane tickets and expenses paid for. Its not their fault that so far besides jinro and huk foreigners have been doing terribly. Still they have been more than inviting even having a world championships and flying out players from around the globe. Obviously our scene isnt quite there yet in terms of having the money to do these sorts of things but i doubt we would see it anyways.
|
Your right GOMTV is already trying, what the world needs to do is this. Form an ELITE TEAM.. Team wih the absolute best players in the world (non koreans). Pay them well enough salary and send them all to Korea and compete, get good sponsorship or what ever and keep them well trained etc.. If any foreign ever wins a Code S sponsorship, then you probably might hit gold.. A shit load of sponsors (omgosh a non korean won a korean tournament).
You just need money.
Or someone like NASL could grow bigger and expand have their own studio.. Offer a huge prize pool bigger than GSL.. and hire Jason Lee to be a commentator. Then get the koreans comming to the western side.. LoLz
|
On May 18 2011 05:09 Xeris wrote:
It's a Code A invite, unless I'm horribly mistaken...
Hey Habit!!
apparently the MLG winner gets into code S, it might just be for the Last MLG but i am not sure. but i 100% agree with your post and i really liked this article.
|
On May 22 2011 06:16 cheesemaster wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2011 22:25 Nimic wrote:On May 21 2011 19:27 WesternProblem wrote:
Foreigners are lazy. They do not deserve free invites.
How is it not worth it to go?
ALL EXPENSE PAID
Practice on the ladder, with pros
Get to play against the best in GSL
Whats not good about it? Scared youll lose? So what? Its free!
Dont give me that bullshit excuse that "I could make more staying in NA/EU, I wont get to be around my friends and family blah blah"
That attitude is exactly why foreigners sucked in brood war and were unable to compete on the same level as koreans (Dont even bring up Ret/Idra, sure they were on proteams by were still terrible)
Foreigners just want to have their cake and eat it too without having to do anything.
If SC2 ever takes off and gets to BW pro level and Koreans sponsors are willing to fly out their players to compete in international tourneys, the foreigner scene will die just like it did in BW because when it comes down to practice KR > *
Also LOL @ making Code A an online tournament, you are aware GOM broadcasts it on TV right? Oh hey let me just tune in to my match and "stream cheat" or turn on ma map hacks. And what about pauses etc, think about these things first. They don't broadcast GSL on TV, actually. Your wrong since january it is being broadcast on Anibox, also seasons are being rebroadcast on arira tv (something like that cant remember the name)
Arirang
|
On May 22 2011 10:42 Yamulo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 05:09 Xeris wrote:
It's a Code A invite, unless I'm horribly mistaken...
Hey Habit!! apparently the MLG winner gets into code S, it might just be for the Last MLG but i am not sure. but i 100% agree with your post and i really liked this article.
I wish people would actually read the annoucement's or at least this thread where it has been said probably 30 times that MLG columbus is only code A invites and every MLG after the winner gets code S and next 3 foreigners (4 if the MLG winner is already code S or is a korean) get code A.
|
On May 22 2011 11:21 pieman819 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2011 10:42 Yamulo wrote:On May 18 2011 05:09 Xeris wrote:
It's a Code A invite, unless I'm horribly mistaken...
Hey Habit!! apparently the MLG winner gets into code S, it might just be for the Last MLG but i am not sure. but i 100% agree with your post and i really liked this article. I wish people would actually read the annoucement's or at least this thread where it has been said probably 30 times that MLG columbus is only code A invites and every MLG after the winner gets code S and next 3 foreigners (4 if the MLG winner is already code S or is a korean) get code A.
Yes, it's frustrating to see so many poorly informed people complaining and missing the point. For reference, the thread with the GSL / MLG league exchange info is here:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=222580
|
I think the biggest problem is that GSL's are month long tournaments.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
