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On May 23 2011 16:06 theinfamousone wrote:
I just want to see Thorzain and/or Naniwa to throw down in Korea. I guarantee they could throw some weight around if HuK is Code S and Idra was consistently in top 8.
On May 23 2011 16:21 0neder wrote:
Foreigners can whine about a Korean problem all they want, and the longer they do it, the further Koreans will pull away in the talent/skill level race because of their hard work and training regimen.
Yeah. When I see that Boxer himself is sleeping in a bunk bed in the same room as his teammates while the foreigners are saying that they wouldn't accept those living conditions, everything is said.
GSL is giving code S and code A spots.
GSL is paying the travel cost, is giving a house to stay and is paying "accommodation"
Code A ro32 and ro16 have been compressed to be held on a 4 days period. (so a foreigner can stay less than one week if he loses)
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On May 23 2011 16:58 MrCon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 16:06 theinfamousone wrote:
I just want to see Thorzain and/or Naniwa to throw down in Korea. I guarantee they could throw some weight around if HuK is Code S and Idra was consistently in top 8. Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 16:21 0neder wrote:
Foreigners can whine about a Korean problem all they want, and the longer they do it, the further Koreans will pull away in the talent/skill level race because of their hard work and training regimen. Yeah. When I see that Boxer himself is sleeping in a bunk bed in the same room as his teammates while the foreigners are saying that they wouldn't accept those living conditions, everything is said. GSL is giving code S and code A spots. GSL is paying the travel cost, is giving a house to stay and is paying "accommodation" Code A ro32 and ro16 have been compressed to be held on a 4 days period. (so a foreigner can stay less than one week if he loses)
Well it has to do with what I hate the most about every foreigner; They're not ready to work as hard as koreans for the prizes. They want casual training regimes and accommodation and less hard opponents to win the prize pool... why go to Korea and actually fight for the money when you can play all the open tournaments you want and stomp the shitty casual masters in EU/US.
I hate it, because it gives me as a viewer less good games. Just look as far as the NASL, we can't even produce 50 amazing players (Yes alot of them are, but alot of them are NOT)
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On May 23 2011 16:48 Yaotzin wrote:
Should close this thread, it's pretty outdated now and just misinforming people.
This thread needs to be closed, it gives people a very negative view on korea and koreans. When i read it it didnt really give me so much that feeling but i realised that alot of the information on here was wrong right away. Clearly to other people though it gives them the idea that korea is a very unwelcoming place for foreigners wich just simply isnt true, they have been more accomadating for foreigners than any other organization in or out of korea (weather the koreans are the foreigners in the west or vice versa)
I really hope this isnt what xeris was trying to do with this post, the conclusions people have come up with based on this post are very discouraging. This post basically has given people an outlet to hate on korea and the gsl. Gsl is the best tournament hands down and i dont think anyone would deny that, before this thread i had never even heard a single complaint about the GSL besides maybe the dissapointing finals wich is nobody's fault so it wasnt pointing fingers at anybody.
Basically this thread has turned into an anti korean thread from one side, and then counter arguments fromm what i perceive as the more rational side. Alot of people just read the OP and take everything that was said there at face value and draw their conclusions fromm there.
Xeris or a mod need to edit this post, i cant beleive it was put in the spotlight section =/
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I disagree completely that Code A should be "online" as a possible solution. I far prefer live events to online events and casting by replays. Making Code A "online" would ruin that event for me completely. I hope we see more live events in the booth, not less.
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On May 18 2011 05:10 Yaotzin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 18 2011 05:09 Xeris wrote:
It's a Code A invite, unless I'm horribly mistaken...
Hey Habit!! My understanding is that this MLG is only like 3 Code A invites, but future MLGs will be winner gets Code S + a few Code As. Can someone clarify?
This is completely true, but since this post came out xeris seems to have dissapeared, he has not addressed anyones concerns about the validity of his post and it has even become a spotlight thread.
People read this and immediately assume that everything xeris has stated in here is true because of his position in the community, the fact that he didnt take the time to go through the actual information before making this post is ridiculous and allows people to draw negative conclusions about korea and the GSL wich i dont feel is right at all.
Another unfortunate factor is that this post is now outdated as the GSL has changed their format, now code a round of 32 and round of 16 last a total of 4-5 days (depending on what group you are in) wich means a foreigner who qualified through MLG can take their all expenses paid trip to korea compete in the round of 32 and the round of 16 if they make it and they will have only been there for 4-5 days at that point they will know if they make it to the up and down matches and have a shot at code s, at wich point its obviously worth it to stay for another week and a half (when the up and down matches start) to see if you have got what it takes to get into code s (or if you win code a you get a direct seed now) Considering that its all expenses paid this commitment seems minimal and at worst you may have to play a match or 2 online if your in the NASL, but that shouldnt be a huge deal right now in the NASL there are 4 koreans and sen in the top 10 (sen is fromm taiwan and the latency would be similair) if they can do it , it shouldnt be such a huge deal especially if your getting a shot at code s.
another thing wich xeris was wrong about he states that foreigners will have to pay for everything themselves beyond travel and accomadation wich is untrue and even if it wasnt what else is there really food? thats not all that expensive im sure the 200 dollars you would receive if you fall out in the first round of code a would more than cover the 4 days of food. All in all Xeris has somehow turned alot of people off of this hugely positive opportunity in wich you make a 5 day commitment at the most to get a shot at code s, if you dont make it no harm no foul you go home and youve had a nice 4-5 days in korea all expenses paid, heck if it were me i would stay for an extra week just to see the sights. I dont understand all the negativity surrounding this, but i feel it has something to do with xeris along with people wanting to put down a scene other then their own, his post is very convincing for someone who takes what he says at face value and hasnt taken the time to read what is going on themselves.
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On May 23 2011 18:16 AmiPolizeiFunk wrote:
I disagree completely that Code A should be "online" as a possible solution. I far prefer live events to online events and casting by replays. Making Code A "online" would ruin that event for me completely. I hope we see more live events in the booth, not less.
Totally agree that was a terrible solution sacrificing quality to accomadate foreigners is unnacceptable, especially considering how accomadating they already are if you travel there.
I think xeris went about this thread the wrong way it just sound whiney and arrogant why would koreans totally dumb down the quality of their tournament to accomadate lazy foreigners if you dont want to travel to korea thats fine, if you do they are very accomadating to foreigners, no one should get a free or easy ride into the biggest most competitive tournament in the world at the moment.
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I totaly agree with you Xeris.
I don't watch GOM since 2 seasons now. The finals are weak, I don't know the players, there are new ones to arrive, I have never heard of. Old ones drop to code A. Doesnt matter, cause they aren't individuals in any way, all that differs is the choreo they do into the camera when they have won.
Foreigners are non existent, and if there are foreigners, they will be in the same group so that only one of em advances...
The foreigner-scene invites koreans to everything, the koreans don't have to go through qualifiers like everyone else, no they are the VIPs, we need them in our tournaments, otherwise we aren't skilled enough.
So whereas the local nerd rages in his qualifier cup, the korean waits in the VIP-area to win the hole tournament and than makes rassist comments about white people...
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On May 23 2011 19:31 schI2ler wrote:
I totaly agree with you Xeris.
I don't watch GOM since 2 seasons now. The finals are weak, I don't know the players, there are new ones to arrive, I have never heard of. Old ones drop to code A. Doesnt matter, cause they aren't individuals in any way, all that differs is the choreo they do into the camera when they have won.
Foreigners are non existent, and if there are foreigners, they will be in the same group so that only one of em advances...
The foreigner-scene invites koreans to everything, the koreans don't have to go through qualifiers like everyone else, no they are the VIPs, we need them in our tournaments, otherwise we aren't skilled enough.
So whereas the local nerd rages in his qualifier cup, the korean waits in the VIP-area to win the hole tournament and than makes rassist comments about white people...
Wut?
And is giving 3code A spots and a code S spot not enough as VIP treatment?
yes you need to win MLG for it but lets be honest, if you can't do that you won't do much in the GSL.
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After seeing the last match between + Show Spoiler + in the NASL, i understand now what the korean problem is. Korean are getting better and better at this game while foreigners are growing lazy and bad. A 30 food advantage in a mirror match, specially + Show Spoiler + is huge, but foreigners just don't know how to play late game on that mirror. The gap between foreigners and koreans will only grow bigger. Right now, they have the mental attitude of WoW player, farming gold through countless small tournaments. They will get "rich" that way, but training in prohouses on a way more competitive environment is what makes you the best.
Also, schI2ler? Where's your well deserved ban?
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On May 23 2011 19:31 schI2ler wrote:
I totaly agree with you Xeris.
I don't watch GOM since 2 seasons now. The finals are weak, I don't know the players, there are new ones to arrive, I have never heard of. Old ones drop to code A. Doesnt matter, cause they aren't individuals in any way, all that differs is the choreo they do into the camera when they have won.
Foreigners are non existent, and if there are foreigners, they will be in the same group so that only one of em advances...
The foreigner-scene invites koreans to everything, the koreans don't have to go through qualifiers like everyone else, no they are the VIPs, we need them in our tournaments, otherwise we aren't skilled enough.
So whereas the local nerd rages in his qualifier cup, the korean waits in the VIP-area to win the hole tournament and than makes rassist comments about white people...
Uhhhh lol see what you have done xeris, your post just attracts the racists who want an outlet to hate on koreans. Those are the people who are agreeing with you, im sure this isnt what you had in mind when you made this post.
At least i hope not.
When have you heard any korean in the pro gaming scene make a racist comment about white people. Maybe at IEM where the WHITE people made moon say "koreans own white dudes" but the white people made him say that =/
and you havent even watched GSL for 2 seasons so your post holds no merit as you have no idea whats going on.
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The fact that people are calling this the "Korean problem" kind of pisses me off because it implies some underlying mindset of entitlement, or, if not entitlement, at least some idea that Koreans are to blame. There are multitudes of other names that could have been used.
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On May 23 2011 19:48 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 19:31 schI2ler wrote:
I totaly agree with you Xeris.
I don't watch GOM since 2 seasons now. The finals are weak, I don't know the players, there are new ones to arrive, I have never heard of. Old ones drop to code A. Doesnt matter, cause they aren't individuals in any way, all that differs is the choreo they do into the camera when they have won.
Foreigners are non existent, and if there are foreigners, they will be in the same group so that only one of em advances...
The foreigner-scene invites koreans to everything, the koreans don't have to go through qualifiers like everyone else, no they are the VIPs, we need them in our tournaments, otherwise we aren't skilled enough.
So whereas the local nerd rages in his qualifier cup, the korean waits in the VIP-area to win the hole tournament and than makes rassist comments about white people...
Wut? And is giving 3code A spots and a code S spot not enough as VIP treatment? yes you need to win MLG for it but lets be honest, if you can't do that you won't do much in the GSL.
And a progaming house just for foreigners and an all expenses paid trip to korea for up to a month. That sounds way more VIP then ANYTHING we have given the koreans.
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On May 23 2011 20:04 HolyArrow wrote:
The fact that people are calling this the "Korean problem" kind of pisses me off because it implies some underlying mindset of entitlement, or, if not entitlement, at least some idea that Koreans are to blame. There are multitudes of other names that could have been used.
Yea totally agree, the name choice was terrible and the fact that it has been put in the spotlight is absolutely appauling. If you notice alot of the people agreeing with xeris seem to be borderline racist or just blindly agree with him regardless of the fact that the OP is full of alot of false or outdated information.
Ugh this thread just needs to be closed =/
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On May 23 2011 20:02 cheesemaster wrote:
Uhhhh lol see what you have done xeris, your post just attracts the racists who want an outlet to hate on koreans. Those are the people who are agreeing with you, im sure this isnt what you had in mind when you made this post.
I don't hate koreans. I am not racist.
I know you saying this takes credit away from everything I said, so well done, but I will go into details for you:
GOM/GSL gave 3 code A spots, the additional Code S spot came only after a lot of critizism from the foreigner scene who didn't see an equal trade. So you should not attack the critics but thank them.
If a foreigner took an invitation to a korean tournament and then he talked bad about koreans (and being it only that they get owned) this would upset the Koreans. Why should it then not be an upset if a korean Guest makes the Foreigners lose their face?
I hope to see koreans in international events, but I want them to earn their spots, just like other people do. I want them to muscle down, and go all through the qualifier like Naniwa did. I want them to collect their points to the top16 seed.
But at the moment, I see a tendency in sc2, that you invite players (and this applies to foreigners aswell) not because of their skill, their succes or their ladderrank, but because of their online-viewership.
And even worse, when the tournament organizer is at the "we need koreans"-point, to often it doesnt matter who gets invited: "We need 4 of em"
Yes I understand, that tournaments want to grow, and show trough their grid how important they are, but why then do you invite (or get) koreans from the B team? I want MVP, I want Nestea, I want Boxer, I want Nada.
And about the GOM-Players: In my eyes they get treated as if they were expendable. There is absolutely no room for personal individual stuff. They come in uniform and their playstile is many times absolutely standart to the korean ladder norm. If I wanted to analyse brutal timing pushes, I'd have to watch this, but I want an 8bases 1v1 where the stronger mind wins.
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On May 23 2011 20:50 schI2ler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 20:02 cheesemaster wrote:
Uhhhh lol see what you have done xeris, your post just attracts the racists who want an outlet to hate on koreans. Those are the people who are agreeing with you, im sure this isnt what you had in mind when you made this post.
I don't hate koreans. I am not racist. I know you saying this takes credit away from everything I said, so well done, but I will go into details for you: GOM/GSL gave 3 code A spots, the additional Code S spot came only after a lot of critizism from the foreigner scene who didn't see an equal trade. So you should not attack the critics but thank them. If a foreigner took an invitation to a korean tournament and than he talked bad about koreans (and being it only that they get owned) this would upset the Koreans. Why should it then not be an upset if a korean Guest makes the Foreigners lose their face? I hope to see koreans in international events, but I want them to earn their spots, just like other people do. I want them to muscle down, and go all through the qualifier like Naniwa did. I want them to collect their points to the top16 seed. But at the moment, I see a tendency in sc2, that you invite players (and this applies to foreigners aswell) not because of their skill, their succes or their ladderrank, but because of their online-viewership. And even worse, when the tournament organizer is at the "we need koreans"-point, to often it doesnt matter who gets invited: "We need 4 of em" Yes I understand, that tournaments want to grow, and show trough their grid how important they are, but why then do you invite (or get) koreans from the B team? I want MVP, I want Nestea, I want Boxer, I want Nada. And about the GOM-Players: In my eyes they get treated as if they were expendable. There is absolutely no room for personal individual stuff. They come in uniform and their playstile is many times absolutely standart to the korean ladder norm. If I wanted to analyse brutal timing pushes, I'd have to watch this, but I want an 8bases 1v1 where the stronger mind wins.
You are wrong the Code S spot was in the MLG annoucement from the start it's just that the GSL format changes won't fully come into affect until after the next codeA/S season so MLG Collumbus only has the code Aspots.
This has been said a hundred times in this thread.
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On May 23 2011 20:50 schI2ler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 20:02 cheesemaster wrote:
Uhhhh lol see what you have done xeris, your post just attracts the racists who want an outlet to hate on koreans. Those are the people who are agreeing with you, im sure this isnt what you had in mind when you made this post.
I don't hate koreans. I am not racist. I know you saying this takes credit away from everything I said, so well done, but I will go into details for you: GOM/GSL gave 3 code A spots, the additional Code S spot came only after a lot of critizism from the foreigner scene who didn't see an equal trade. So you should not attack the critics but thank them. If a foreigner took an invitation to a korean tournament and than he talked bad about koreans (and being it only that they get owned) this would upset the Koreans. Why should it then not be an upset if a korean Guest makes the Foreigners lose their face? I hope to see koreans in international events, but I want them to earn their spots, just like other people do. I want them to muscle down, and go all through the qualifier like Naniwa did. I want them to collect their points to the top16 seed. But at the moment, I see a tendency in sc2, that you invite players (and this applies to foreigners aswell) not because of their skill, their succes or their ladderrank, but because of their online-viewership. And even worse, when the tournament organizer is at the "we need koreans"-point, to often it doesnt matter who gets invited: "We need 4 of em" Yes I understand, that tournaments want to grow, and show trough their grid how important they are, but why then do you invite (or get) koreans from the B team? I want MVP, I want Nestea, I want Boxer, I want Nada. And about the GOM-Players: In my eyes they get treated as if they were expendable. There is absolutely no room for personal individual stuff. They come in uniform and their playstile is many times absolutely standart to the korean ladder norm. If I wanted to analyse brutal timing pushes, I'd have to watch this, but I want an 8bases 1v1 where the stronger mind wins.
All the MLG invites are S class players (maybe except Moon), and very well known if you actually followed GSL and especially GSTL. It's a great insult to call MMA, Losira and Bomber B teamers.
GSL also provides much more personality to players than online tournaments like NASL or IPL. How can you even claim gom players are expendable when you don't even watch GSL? If you watch the most recent GSTL, you'll see shit that you'll NEVER see in a foreigner tournaments.
Also timing pushes are the correct way to explore RTS, Koreans are doing it right. How else would you discover timings? How would you know when to take your expo without people exploring when you can attack? Do you think people expanded like mad like they do now in SC1's early days? Lot of foreigners(except for select few top players) sit back, turtle and macro because they don't know when they can attack or when they should prepare for defense like the Koreans do.
If you want to watch an 8 base 1v1 45 min games, I suggest you tune into a bronze-silver KOTH stuff. sounds like you won't be able to tell the difference anyway.
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On May 23 2011 20:50 schI2ler wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2011 20:02 cheesemaster wrote:
Uhhhh lol see what you have done xeris, your post just attracts the racists who want an outlet to hate on koreans. Those are the people who are agreeing with you, im sure this isnt what you had in mind when you made this post.
I don't hate koreans. I am not racist. I know you saying this takes credit away from everything I said, so well done, but I will go into details for you: GOM/GSL gave 3 code A spots, the additional Code S spot came only after a lot of critizism from the foreigner scene who didn't see an equal trade. So you should not attack the critics but thank them. If a foreigner took an invitation to a korean tournament and than he talked bad about koreans (and being it only that they get owned) this would upset the Koreans. Why should it then not be an upset if a korean Guest makes the Foreigners lose their face? I hope to see koreans in international events, but I want them to earn their spots, just like other people do. I want them to muscle down, and go all through the qualifier like Naniwa did. I want them to collect their points to the top16 seed. But at the moment, I see a tendency in sc2, that you invite players (and this applies to foreigners aswell) not because of their skill, their succes or their ladderrank, but because of their online-viewership. And even worse, when the tournament organizer is at the "we need koreans"-point, to often it doesnt matter who gets invited: "We need 4 of em" Yes I understand, that tournaments want to grow, and show trough their grid how important they are, but why then do you invite (or get) koreans from the B team? I want MVP, I want Nestea, I want Boxer, I want Nada. And about the GOM-Players: In my eyes they get treated as if they were expendable. There is absolutely no room for personal individual stuff. They come in uniform and their playstile is many times absolutely standart to the korean ladder norm. If I wanted to analyse brutal timing pushes, I'd have to watch this, but I want an 8bases 1v1 where the stronger mind wins.
You really don't know what you're talking about, some great styles have come out of the GSL, Kyrix's baneling agression. MKP started the very very heavy marine play which heavily effected TvZ, not only in korea, but in every other single region. July's style of mass agression after getting a decent economy.
Have you seen Fruitdealer's run through the open season 1 of GSL? Where zerg was viewed as the weakest race by far and seemed like it was impossible to win against terran. He used his own 'playstile' (to quote you) to go through a sea of terran and probably create the most memorable run through the GSL.
Alot of the korean players are fan favourites because of their unique styles, because of their dominance (MC, Nestea, MVP - all dual-champions).
Just because a game gets to 8 base vs 8 base doesn't make it better, it could just been a drawn out game that becomes painful to watch because both players play sloppily or far too passively. I'd rather see a very well executed push or rush then a drawn out game because neither player was decisive enough to take advantage and go for the win. Creativity isn't a bad thing, but then again entertainment is something that can vary from viewer to viewer, so each to his own there.
Your argument seems shallow and uninformed, don't generalise an entire region of players.
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Nayl I just don't think you are right.
a) I don't think that MMA Losira and Bomber are the best Korea has.
b) I don't think that GSL gives more room to individuals than NASL.
c) I do watch GSL but I don't care, so I see whats happening but I don't think it's dope, so I "know" the players.
d) I don't think that I "discover timings" by watching GSL, I think playing helps.
e) I don't think foreigners turtle all day long and don't know when to attack or how to defend.
f) I don't think that 8 base 1v1 is bronze-silver I sure hope it's the future.
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On May 23 2011 21:17 schI2ler wrote:
Nayl I just don't think you are right.
a) I don't think that MMA Losira and Bomber are the best Korea has.
b) I don't think that GSL gives more room to individuals than NASL.
c) I do watch GSL but I don't care, so I see whats happening but I don't think it's dope, so I "know" the players.
d) I don't think that I "discover timings" by watching GSL, I think playing helps.
e) I don't think foreigners turtle all day long and don't know when to attack or how to defend.
f) I don't think that 8 base 1v1 is bronze-silver I sure hope it's the future.
What about the fact you said the community was responsible for the cose S spot when it was in there from the start and had nothing to do with uninformed whiners like you.
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EPT
