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Resilient
United Kingdom1431 Posts
On April 11 2011 11:04 DImported wrote: wow that's funny that people still don't know how to defend a 6 pool. It's not exactly as simple as you'd think if you scout the zerg last position on 4 player maps while he finds you first as Protoss. | ||
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KannedTuna
United States38 Posts
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gozima
Canada602 Posts
I wonder if the OPs success rate could be duplicated on the EU or KR servers. | ||
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shadowboxer
United States224 Posts
So you reach masters and then start learning the game from scratch? What was the reason for rushing then?... You didn't really achieve anything since once the legit player reaches masters he will be 10 fold better than you. Edit: woot, post 1234[/QUOTE] Not exactly, I already know how to play standard, I want to hit masters because a lot of tournaments require you to be masters. I'm not sure if you were handed masters or not, but when you're top level diamond, you play nothing but masters and most of them are absolutely horrendous. Still, smaller tournaments actually REQUIRE you to be masters. Thus, instead of trying my hardest on ladder, I'll continue to play solid and standard in practice games with solid opponents instead of wasting my time vs. absolute scrubs that get to masters by 4 gating/6 gating/old 2rax, or 6 pooling like this guy did. Masters players are hardly "10 fold" better than tier 1 diamond players, generally they're as bad or worse. Masters starts mattering when you're extremely high rated, and doesn't matter at all when you're low rated because you're going to queue against 50% masters and 50% top level diamond. If you see any tournaments that have a diamond requirement, let me know, they seem to have disappeared since TL opens stopped happening. On topic, if you want to participate in tournies, know how to play solid and what to improve on but aren't getting promoted, cheesing is the way to get there. And as you can see, 6 pooling is still working for him at mid-high masters, so obviously just because you're masters doesn't actually mean you're "10 fold" better than anyone. | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
People don't expect Z to 6-7 pool very much. 6-7 pool is still an easy win if it is unexpected. Therefore if you 6-7 pool every game against a different player each time, you will win lots. In, say, a Bo5, the guy who has been doing nothing but 7 pooling is pretty fucked. He wins one game off of it, and it's not likely to happen again. ActionJesuz notwithstanding. | ||
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Adonisto
Canada191 Posts
On April 11 2011 11:27 shadowboxer wrote: So you reach masters and then start learning the game from scratch? What was the reason for rushing then?... You didn't really achieve anything since once the legit player reaches masters he will be 10 fold better than you. Edit: woot, post 1234 Not exactly, I already know how to play standard, I want to hit masters because a lot of tournaments require you to be masters. I'm not sure if you were handed masters or not, but when you're top level diamond, you play nothing but masters and most of them are absolutely horrendous. Still, smaller tournaments actually REQUIRE you to be masters. Thus, instead of trying my hardest on ladder, I'll continue to play solid and standard in practice games with solid opponents instead of wasting my time vs. absolute scrubs that get to masters by 4 gating/6 gating/old 2rax, or 6 pooling like this guy did. Masters players are hardly "10 fold" better than tier 1 diamond players, generally they're as bad or worse. Masters starts mattering when you're extremely high rated, and doesn't matter at all when you're low rated because you're going to queue against 50% masters and 50% top level diamond. If you see any tournaments that have a diamond requirement, let me know, they seem to have disappeared since TL opens stopped happening. On topic, if you want to participate in tournies, know how to play solid and what to improve on but aren't getting promoted, cheesing is the way to get there. And as you can see, 6 pooling is still working for him at mid-high masters, so obviously just because you're masters doesn't actually mean you're "10 fold" better than anyone. Actually there's quite a big difference of skill between Diamond and Master, I've never been "high" Master because I don't play much and I always have a lot of bonus pool but since the Master divison exist, I lost maybe 3 games against Diamond player out of 30+(you can't miss a force field against 3roach/ling all in, heh). But I was only rank 98 in Master last season, how come? You wanna know how "good" a "tier1" Diamond player is? Go watch Catreina stream, you'll see... There's not a single Master player worst than that, "10 fold" better is pretty accurate. | ||
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Hybris
United States185 Posts
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DamnCats
United States1472 Posts
On April 11 2011 11:27 shadowboxer wrote: Not exactly, I already know how to play standard, I want to hit masters because a lot of tournaments require you to be masters. I'm not sure if you were handed masters or not, but when you're top level diamond, you play nothing but masters and most of them are absolutely horrendous. This is ridiculous to me. If you can't get to masters playing standard and you 6 pool your way there just to play in tournaments online you are going to get crushed regardless. Shit I've been in masters since it came out and I get crushed most of the time in online tours and I have yet to 6 pool anyone on any ladder game. No one is "handed" masters. If you play such horrendous masters players wouldn't it be easy to get into masters w/o 6 pooling constantly just by beating the "horrendous" players you're playing against? Nothing about what you wrote makes any sense to me at all, in fact. You may know how to play "standard" as you put it, but if you aren't in masters because of your "standard" skills and instead rely on 6 pools to get you in, that simply means you're "standard" play is diamond level. That is what you should work on. Not becoming the next ActionJesus. | ||
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imareaver3
United States906 Posts
On April 11 2011 12:04 Adonisto wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 11 2011 11:27 shadowboxer wrote: So you reach masters and then start learning the game from scratch? What was the reason for rushing then?... You didn't really achieve anything since once the legit player reaches masters he will be 10 fold better than you. Edit: woot, post 1234 Not exactly, I already know how to play standard, I want to hit masters because a lot of tournaments require you to be masters. I'm not sure if you were handed masters or not, but when you're top level diamond, you play nothing but masters and most of them are absolutely horrendous. Still, smaller tournaments actually REQUIRE you to be masters. Thus, instead of trying my hardest on ladder, I'll continue to play solid and standard in practice games with solid opponents instead of wasting my time vs. absolute scrubs that get to masters by 4 gating/6 gating/old 2rax, or 6 pooling like this guy did. Masters players are hardly "10 fold" better than tier 1 diamond players, generally they're as bad or worse. Masters starts mattering when you're extremely high rated, and doesn't matter at all when you're low rated because you're going to queue against 50% masters and 50% top level diamond. If you see any tournaments that have a diamond requirement, let me know, they seem to have disappeared since TL opens stopped happening. On topic, if you want to participate in tournies, know how to play solid and what to improve on but aren't getting promoted, cheesing is the way to get there. And as you can see, 6 pooling is still working for him at mid-high masters, so obviously just because you're masters doesn't actually mean you're "10 fold" better than anyone. Actually there's quite a big difference of skill between Diamond and Master, I've never been "high" Master because I don't play much and I always have a lot of bonus pool but since the Master divison exist, I lost maybe 3 games against Diamond player out of 30+(you can't miss a force field against 3roach/ling all in, heh). But I was only rank 98 in Master last season, how come? You wanna know how "good" a "tier1" Diamond player is? Go watch Catreina stream, you'll see... There's not a single Master player worst than that, "10 fold" better is pretty accurate. As a high diamond player, I'll say the exact opposite. The bottom tier of masters (The players I face) range from slightly worse than to slightly better than me, and many have what I'd call diamond level mechanics; I can beat them regularly. Of course, most of masters is different and better, but low-tier masters and high-tier diamond are essentially at the same skill level. | ||
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Lightningbullet
United States507 Posts
On April 11 2011 07:35 Art_of_Kill wrote: and warp gate should require two nexus ... You serious bro? :/ :3 | ||
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DrivE
United States2554 Posts
On April 11 2011 11:22 Resilient wrote: It's not exactly as simple as you'd think if you scout the zerg last position on 4 player maps while he finds you first as Protoss. yea... in a 4 player map, if you get really unlucky with scouting, you won't know the opponent is 7 pooling until the lings come up your ramp. zerg on the other hand can just send 2 drones to scout the bases and find you. | ||
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PokePill
United States1048 Posts
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Chroniel
Germany46 Posts
[B]Also good job Flabulous (Mr Bitter) on holding off that cheese Well that's the problem with a 6 (or in that case a 7 pool with spine crawler) in a ZvZ - yes he won that game but watch how close it actually is. He lost so many drones fighting the zerglings that in the end he was only ahead by 2 drones and if you keep in mind how much mining time he has lost that is a MUCH closer outcome than you would expect for properly dealing with cheese. If the OP had switched to drone production or made a queen it would have been a pretty even game from that point on. | ||
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Irrelevant
United States2364 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On April 11 2011 07:15 rottenpotato wrote: Let me start by saying that I don't condone in any way cheesing, especially to the extreme that I took it that week. I don't play like this. I had taken an extended break before the lockout of season 1. I started the week needing to burn up 1840 bonus pool. That's a lot of games. I crunched some numbers: there's absolutely no way I'd have enough time to play that many real games in one week. I wanted a better emblem for the season. Solution? Fast games. 6 pools(7 vs zerg). What did I learn? It works amazingly. **NOTE** The following percentages are based on master's 1500 through 3300-3400 players. There is a wall you hit shortly after where the percentages drop largely. Terran to about 2-5%, Zerg is about the same, and Protoss to around 55-65%. Win ratio vs Terran: ~15-20% Win ratio vs Zerg: ~65-75% Win ratio vs Protoss: ~85-95% My MMR at the end sat at at around 3800-3900. I fought a few "e-famous" people including Flabulous, Kiwikaki, and VTWhiplash (to be fair I had no idea who this guy was until I saw him on the Dallas stream a few days ago...and again to be fair I still don't). What are your thoughts on 6pooling at high levels of play? You can find the replay pack here: 6-7 pool replay pack I don't want to watch a replay pack of the same shit. However, I am curious what other notable players you ran into on the NA server while you were doing it. Are those the only recognizeable players you ran into on the ladder? 3 names is fine with an et cetera, but if those are the only guys you came across meh. I'm not surprised many unknowns would fall victim to it. Players should have caught onto you quickly though. This says very little. | ||
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5unrise
New Zealand646 Posts
On April 11 2011 11:53 The KY wrote: To be honest I would say this says very little about the strength of the build, and everything about the nature of the ladder. It confirms what is already obvious; you play a game against a random person out of possible thousands, and if you do an easy fast all in that most players don't do, you will win a lot of games. People don't expect Z to 6-7 pool very much. 6-7 pool is still an easy win if it is unexpected. Therefore if you 6-7 pool every game against a different player each time, you will win lots. In, say, a Bo5, the guy who has been doing nothing but 7 pooling is pretty fucked. He wins one game off of it, and it's not likely to happen again. ActionJesuz notwithstanding. I'm inclined to agree with this. To be honest preparing for a 6 pool will not even put any players behind by very much, as long as they scouted the zergling popping out and didn't do any crazy econ cheese. Terrans just need a faster walloff, or failing that, a bunker (OP agrees with its ineffectiveness against Ts), protoss is trickier but pulling probes in time with the zealot to get up a forge nullifies this. You don't even need specific builds to counter it. | ||
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worldchrisis
United States45 Posts
On April 11 2011 07:34 TurtlePerson2 wrote: I think that this shows that Zergs and Protoss are cheating their opponents at a high level. Perhaps the reason why Protoss players are beating Zerg so often in tournaments is because the Zerg players are letting the toss players get away with greedy builds. Protoss is extremely vulnerable to very fast rushes(before the cybercore is finished). It's almost impossible to defend a well micro'd 6pool if all you have is 1 gateway, 1-2 pylons, an unfinished cybercore, and probes. Protoss has no range until they have the core finished and enough gas to make stalkers. Terran can simply wall off, put a marine behind their wall and be safe. Protoss can't do this. | ||
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DystopiaX
United States16236 Posts
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rottenpotato
Canada130 Posts
On April 11 2011 13:08 StarStruck wrote: I don't want to watch a replay pack of the same shit. However, I am curious what other notable players you ran into on the NA server while you were doing it. Are those the only recognizeable players you ran into on the ladder? 3 names is fine with an et cetera, but if those are the only guys you came across meh. I'm not surprised many unknowns would fall victim to it. Players should have caught onto you quickly though. This says very little. Not sure. I could have run into some of the 'lesser known' progamers and not known it. Like I said I hadn't even heard of VT before I saw him on one of the Dallas videos. | ||
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Redunzl
862 Posts
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