• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:48
CEST 01:48
KST 08:48
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202561RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings The StarCraft 2 GOAT - An in-depth analysis #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time EWC 2025 details: $700k total prize; GSL, DH Dallas confirmed Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BITCOIN RECOVERY EXPERT | LOST RECOVERY MASTERS BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
[G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food!
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 635 users

NASL: Koreans? Top Koreans? - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 104 105 106 Next
Gabb
Profile Joined June 2010
United States63 Posts
March 15 2011 22:01 GMT
#61
To be honest, I think the GSL(maybe renamed to ASL(asian star league) and NASL should be considered as 2 seperate conferences to the GLOBAL Star League. And the winner of each conference, or even the top 4, would compete against the other conference.
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
March 15 2011 22:01 GMT
#62
As for deciding which Koreans to invite, maybe NASL could hold a Korean qualifiers for the 5 spots. Only Koreans interested in travelling to North America to participate would sign up.That way they wouldn't need to worry about inviting a player and then being turned down.
dtz
Profile Joined September 2010
5834 Posts
March 15 2011 22:02 GMT
#63
On March 16 2011 07:00 Naniwa wrote:
let them come, no point if not the absolute best is there ))


That's the 3rd pro Swedes who said this today ( Jinro, meRz , Naniwa)

The capital of western esports indeed.
LagT_T
Profile Joined March 2010
Argentina535 Posts
March 15 2011 22:02 GMT
#64
Invite none. If they want to play, make them pay for everything foreigners had to pay for when they wanted to play sc:bw in Korea.
"The tactics... no. Amateurs discuss tactics, professional soldiers study logistics." - Tom Clancy, Red Storm Rising
aristarchus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States652 Posts
March 15 2011 22:02 GMT
#65
On March 16 2011 06:58 ajb293 wrote:
The league will only benefit from a proper mix of competition and entertainment. The league doesn't need "just the best" to be successful.


It's true that a league doesn't need to have the best players in it in order to be successful. College sports get plenty of attention, for example. I like soccer, and I like watching MLS even though it's nowhere near the level of most European leagues. But it's one thing if you don't happen to have the best players, and another thing if you actively exclude them. To say that someone is not allowed to play for no other reason than that they're too good... it makes the whole competition into an idiotic farce. It's exciting because of the drama, and the drama just isn't that convincing if the title just goes to the guy who was as good as possible without being so good that the organizers kicked them out.
gosuMalicE
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada676 Posts
March 15 2011 22:02 GMT
#66
It really depends on the formatting of the league (which I must admit I haven't got around to looking into) But if it is going to bee a full time, monthly tourney style proleauge (like GSL) Then by all means Invite anyone who is willing to participate and don't cap the entreys by region. The TOP Koreans will likely stay in korea due to GSL commitments, but by allowing the korean teams to send groups of players to the NASL may have the effect of helping to establish a solid reputable proleauge (and hopefully establish pro/team houses in the US which could help bring the level of NA sc2 players up to the level of their korean counterparts). On the other hand if the NASL is just going to throw a big tourny just a couple times a year then I support the capping of players by country, as it would allow NA players to showcase their skills to an audience that rarely gets to see/know about high level NA play.
I play Protoss, because lets face it, who doesn't love hyper-advanced Egyptian ninja-aliens that kill people with lightsabres attached to both arms?
I_Love_Bacon
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5765 Posts
March 15 2011 22:03 GMT
#67
On March 16 2011 06:56 billyX333 wrote:
I'm not sure if I understand the anti-korean competition argument. I guess people are saying it would be boring to see the tournament dominated by non english speaking personalities? I personally think theres a certain degree of mystique surrounding the korean players when they compete in a foreign competition and I think the value of an NASL title would be greatly diminished if they excluded the best players in the world.

Imagine if a foreigner took down the NASL title by going through MVP and nestea... instant and permanent e-fame. legendary status for the rest of his life. While on the other hand if koreans were intentionally excluded, an NASL title would have as much value as morrow's IEM victory last year or huk's MLG win (before idra and jinro were even in it) Both wins were great but far from legendary

I guess there are two types of spectators in sc2 currently, those who prefer MLG/IEM and those who prefer GSL. I greatly prefer GSL myself


The argument has 2 main components.

1: Familiarity. Many of the people who will be competing in the NASL are people who legitimately interact with THIS community. They do interviews, stream, post on these very forums, etc... many of them have a fan base for their personality, not just their gaming abilities. Because of that, adding in the Koreans, who are very, very different in that regard, don't mesh as well.

2: People want to see the NASL and MLG (or any other tournaments) be able to succeed. To have long term success, the player skill has to grow higher than it is now, closer (or at) the GSL level. In order to facilitate that, allowing few or no Koreans increases the likelihood of a foreigner winning more prize money. This encourages the player to be able to play SC2 professionally, and not just as a hobby. When this happens, ideally more and more people can then get team houses and legitimately compete at the top level of the GSL players when they are allowed to dedicate themselves to the game. Then, after this has happened, then restrictions wont even be needed.

Somebody earlier mentioned protectionism as an example from economics and I think it's a fairly solid example of what their goals are.
" i havent been playin sc2 but i woke up w/ a boner and i really had to pee... and my crisis management and micro was really something to behold. it inspired me to play some games today" -Liquid'Tyler
Vaeila
Profile Joined May 2010
Netherlands336 Posts
March 15 2011 22:03 GMT
#68
On March 16 2011 07:00 Naniwa wrote:
let them come, no point if not the absolute best is there ))


By that logic there wouldn't be much space for "foreigners"
xBillehx
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1289 Posts
March 15 2011 22:03 GMT
#69
From a pure spectator standpoint I want the best games possible and it doesn't matter if it's American, Korean or even Alien. If the Koreans can manage to make it to the ro16 and fly out for a week then let them. Theres also no other way to get better than them than to play them. If they're restricted it'll feel like the NASL is some gimped down league for the foreigners because they're just not as good to compete with the big boys. If the NASL want's to compete with the GSL for my attention they better be prepared to make it as good. Theres a reason why I currently have more interest in the TSL3 than the upcoming NASL season.
Taengoo ♥
cuppatea
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1401 Posts
March 15 2011 22:03 GMT
#70
I'm an avid follower of the GSL and have little to no interest in the NA SC2 scene but I think limiting the number of Koreans to 5-10 would be best.
ParasitJonte
Profile Joined September 2004
Sweden1768 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 22:04:23
March 15 2011 22:03 GMT
#71
On March 16 2011 06:51 Pokebunny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2011 06:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Its retarded.

Why do you think any of the non-koreans that went to GSL, went to GSL for?

For the same fucking reason Koreans want to play NASL.

Note that this poll assumes that the skill level of top Code A Koreans is about the same as the skill of the top foreigners, which we can assume to be true from IEM.

While its not that untrue, how can we assume that from IEM when it was won by 3 players who all failed round 1 of Code A? I mean, that wouldnt really qualify as top code A level to me evidence wise.

Do you think its the same considering GSL players have to stay in Korea for at least a month once they qualify for top 64, while Koreans would only have to fly into NA for one week every three months or so?


You're focusing on details. Plane trips, number of days, yada yada yada.

Get to the underlying principle involved. What is the principle behind your anti-korean-into-NASL arguments?

I'm guessing it would go something like this:

- Koreans have teams that play 12 hours a day.
- Western players have studies/work and can only put in maximum 4-6 hours a day.
- This is unfair competition.

And:

- NASL is a tournament tightly connected with teamliquid and the non-korean scene.
- The players should be tightly connected with teamliquid and the non-korean scene.
- Western players are, koreans are not.

Correct/Wrong?
Hello=)
Irave
Profile Joined October 2010
United States9965 Posts
March 15 2011 22:04 GMT
#72
Depending on how firm the NASL wants to be about actually submitting an application, we won't be seeing many Koreans this time around anyways. Schedule conflicts would make it difficult for the big named Koreans to participate as well, since the final 16 will be playing live in LA.
Rokk
Profile Joined March 2010
United States425 Posts
March 15 2011 22:04 GMT
#73
Are the people who are against Koreans forgetting that ST (the only team so far I believe to post videos) has been pretty involved in the English community? They recently did a tournament with iCCup to try out their maps and give feedback. I would love to see the NA community continue to reach out to these teams and develop a strong bond.
ptbl
Profile Joined January 2011
United States6074 Posts
March 15 2011 22:04 GMT
#74
On March 16 2011 07:00 Naniwa wrote:
let them come, no point if not the absolute best is there ))


Hear! Hear! It's warming my heart to see progamers speak up to include a sizeable amount of koreans in NASL. We want to see the best players. We want to see the highest skilled games. Bring on the koreans!
Don't mind me
dacthehork
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States2000 Posts
March 15 2011 22:05 GMT
#75
Hey guys

think of the 50 slots

of all these american/canadian etc players trying to make it in ESPORTS, how many can actually financially attend GSL

To take one of the first North American events, along with MLG, and fill it with koreans who already have the GSL is unfair imo. NA scene needs to develop, can't just say, oh this scene started first and had 85k first place tournaments already, lets invite them only to all these events.

Yes they are better, but thats because they literally had 20x the financial incentives and backbones. When those big tournaments come to america, players will emerge. NASL seems the best opportunity for ACTUAL WESTERN TEAMS / players to develop.

filling it with gosu koreans who have been living in a pro gaming house for the last 8 months playing in 150k+ prize money tournies is just as unfair.
Warturtle - DOTA 2 is KING
kvn4444
Profile Joined September 2010
1510 Posts
March 15 2011 22:05 GMT
#76
I feel nasl should have been more explicit on the type of league they wanted to be. When I first saw their trailer weeks back I assumed it would be this global thing with the absolute very best competing. But with the voting thing/video interviews it feels like they are going for something different, if that is the case they should have just said that outright and stuck by it. I'm fine with that, but the only players active in the community with a pro background but few sc2 accomplishments I'd want to see play for this huge money amount is day9/artosis. Other then that I just want to see a high level tournament equivalent to that of gsl difficulty to win.

Also, from what i've heard mostly from players in interviews and such is that the skill gap isn't that big except at the very top levels. I still believe this, I just think the IEM results has everyone worried now that its not the case.
Vipsanius
Profile Joined February 2011
Netherlands708 Posts
March 15 2011 22:05 GMT
#77
I don't get it. Blocking Koreans because they are too good?

Because then the Koreans will dominate everyone and it gets boring.

I don't agree with that statement, because they assume that foreigners will autolose against a korean.

With the same reasoning GomTV could block foreigners because they aren't good enough and will only give boring games.

Yet GomTV isn't blocking any foreigners from entering, and is even seeding some foreigners to hype the GSL outside of Korea.

I don't agree with blocking Koreans from entering. Invite a few, only the very best, and see what happens. Blocking Koreans from entering is like saying to the foreign players they suck so hard that they have to be protected from Korean noobstomping. I believe foreign players to be capable to put up a nice fight against MC, NesTea, and MVP. They may not win, yet it will definately be enjoyable to watch.
ReachTheSky
Profile Joined April 2010
United States3294 Posts
March 15 2011 22:05 GMT
#78
On March 16 2011 06:51 Pokebunny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2011 06:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Its retarded.

Why do you think any of the non-koreans that went to GSL, went to GSL for?

For the same fucking reason Koreans want to play NASL.

Note that this poll assumes that the skill level of top Code A Koreans is about the same as the skill of the top foreigners, which we can assume to be true from IEM.

While its not that untrue, how can we assume that from IEM when it was won by 3 players who all failed round 1 of Code A? I mean, that wouldnt really qualify as top code A level to me evidence wise.

Do you think its the same considering GSL players have to stay in Korea for at least a month once they qualify for top 64, while Koreans would only have to fly into NA for one week every three months or so?


There is a reason for this. Its because all the matches are being BROADCAST ON TV! its situational dude
TL+ Member
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
March 15 2011 22:05 GMT
#79
Pokebunny, don't you understand that the only way to achieve parity and really make e-sports a global thing will be to have more frequent competitions between Koreans and non-Koreans?
Dalavita
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden1113 Posts
March 15 2011 22:05 GMT
#80
If NA/EU want to be as good as koreans, they need to play the koreans, and play LIKE the koreans.

Not inviting koreans to NASL is just limiting the experience you bring in and gain from the tournament, and makes no sense.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 104 105 106 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 10h 12m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nathanias 169
Dota 2
monkeys_forever593
capcasts175
League of Legends
Grubby4135
Counter-Strike
Fnx 2655
flusha438
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King198
AZ_Axe128
Liquid`Ken38
Other Games
tarik_tv23251
summit1g11470
gofns9183
C9.Mang0227
ViBE155
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick743
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 82
• RyuSc2 41
• davetesta36
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 33
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota23129
League of Legends
• Doublelift4694
• TFBlade487
Other Games
• imaqtpie872
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
10h 12m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
14h 12m
CSO Cup
16h 12m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18h 12m
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
1d 9h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 14h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 18h
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Online Event
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.