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On March 16 2011 06:47 seaofsaturn wrote:
Just do the equivalent that GSL does... invite a few. Why would you want more Koreans than North Americans playing in a North American League? This league has already shown that North Americans are willing to live together in order to train and get better, so its just a matter of time before the gap closes.
GSL doesn't have a foreigner cap as far as I know, everyone can try and qualify if he thinks he's good enough.
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NASL's objective, AFAIK is to get the best players in the world in an NA tourney. Some of the best are Korean. If they want to travel, EXCELLENT. Make Starcraft an international sport, make the mecca be everywhere.
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This wish from certain sectors for a blanket sweep of Koreans from an international tournament is divisive and will for further separation of the two communities (Korean and international) lacks substance, with claims that a tournament should needs a certain standard of English and be inclusive of all nationalities apart from one being unprecedented and discriminative. Tarring one nationality with the same brush in that "they don't want to be part of the scene"(Pokebunny) is disgusting, I'll point you to Ace's part in IEM where frankly he was a great personality, playing a far greater role in that respect than many of the so-called "foreigners". As far as I understand it, the main requirements for the tournament are previous success within the game and a character that will prove to be appealing and exciting to the audience and therefore Korean's should have as much of a chance of fulfilling these requirement as any other.
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On March 16 2011 06:47 red4ce wrote:
Given the huge prize pool in NASL, the skill level of the competitors should be nothing but the best. Invite MVP, MC, Nestea, Nada, and Julyzerg.
Agreed.
If we say disallow top level players than what is the point of having a "Starleague" in the first place?
SC2 doesn't have the big gap between Koreans and Foreigners but not letting them play in the NASL would just create a gap. We've already seen 3 "white dudes" make it into Code S, so now the rest of them will just have to step up their game to compete in the NASL.
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I'd be okay if, considering skill, you keep the koreans underrepresentated, i.e. invite some non-koreans players despite not inviting some korean players of higher skill. However one shouldn't go overboard with this. I still think that the koreans should pose the biggest nationality inside the league.
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On March 16 2011 06:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Its retarded. Why do you think any of the non-koreans that went to GSL, went to GSL for? For the same fucking reason Koreans want to play NASL. Show nested quote +Note that this poll assumes that the skill level of top Code A Koreans is about the same as the skill of the top foreigners, which we can assume to be true from IEM. While its not that untrue, how can we assume that from IEM when it was won by 3 players who all failed round 1 of Code A? I mean, that wouldnt really qualify as top code A level to me evidence wise.
Do you think its the same considering GSL players have to stay in Korea for at least a month once they qualify for top 64, while Koreans would only have to fly into NA for one week every three months or so?
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On March 16 2011 06:50 spancho wrote:
Considering that the GSL makes foreigners fly to Korea to compete (even though its the "Global" Star League), seams fair for the NASL to force anyone who wants to compete to fly to NA and have to go through rounds of elimination. HayprO, even though he was a top foreigner still didnt make it into the first couple of GSL rounds he tried for. Makes sense then that oGsMC should have to get cheesed out of a couple of prelims for the NASL.
What are you talking about? The NASL doesn't have prelims for the 50 invited players, and the majority of the tournament (besides the 16man finals) takes place online. All GSL matches are played at a live LAN, so any competitors must be in Korea to play. The situations are not comparable.
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On March 16 2011 06:49 Teeny wrote:
Invite some of them or hold open tournaments for the korean scene where they can properly qualify. This tournament should have the highest quality of games which will definatly be provided by not letting some regions not take part of it at all.
I actually like this idea, in terms of picking the X number to invite. Hold an open tournament for the Koreans only, specific rules they have to abide by etc, and the top 4 or whatever can advance to the the NASL group stage or something. This way, it also eliminates the requirement to pick and choose who to invite and who not to when there is decent amount of variability between seasons and many people who can argue for spots.
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Inviting ALL the koreans would make NASL a 2nd GSL and in my opinion that would be so much less interesting than having a wester league with some of the koreans
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On March 16 2011 06:51 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 06:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Its retarded. Why do you think any of the non-koreans that went to GSL, went to GSL for? For the same fucking reason Koreans want to play NASL. Note that this poll assumes that the skill level of top Code A Koreans is about the same as the skill of the top foreigners, which we can assume to be true from IEM. While its not that untrue, how can we assume that from IEM when it was won by 3 players who all failed round 1 of Code A? I mean, that wouldnt really qualify as top code A level to me evidence wise. Do you think its the same considering GSL players have to stay in Korea for at least a month once they qualify for top 64, while Koreans would only have to fly into NA for one week every three months or so?
I would argue traveling and such is irrelevant. If the NASL had the resources to become lan only much like the GSL, and holds promise of being a long term league, I would venture a guess that Koreans would come here and live here, just as foreigners go and travel to Korea to play.
They go where the money is good, they go where there are the best players. Good money, will attract the best players.
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if you don't want this to be GSL Code C it needs to be the best players possible, In the same way the team restriction was terrible and removed, the top 50 players to sign up should be in the league, regardless of origin.
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Jinro laying down the law! Finally, some common sense is interjected in this debate.
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To avoid this stereotype on Koreans, just have the sole Korean invites to be 1a2a3a4a, cella, and firebathero.
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the point of a tournament is to see good players and good games.
many americans recognize the koreans and are their fans.
if you were at blizzcon, the koreans got surrounded by many american fans. the chance to look over their shoulder and see them play live in the progamer booth was nothing less than amazing.
it is common for asians to be "reserve". excluding them from major tournaments because they dont "mingle" with the people is a sad excuse.
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On March 16 2011 06:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Its retarded. Why do you think any of the non-koreans that went to GSL, went to GSL for? For the same fucking reason Koreans want to play NASL. Show nested quote +Note that this poll assumes that the skill level of top Code A Koreans is about the same as the skill of the top foreigners, which we can assume to be true from IEM. While its not that untrue, how can we assume that from IEM when it was won by 3 players who all failed round 1 of Code A? I mean, that wouldnt really qualify as top code A level to me evidence wise.
Jinro you where lucky to be on possibly the best sponsored foreign team able to practice in the best environment.
In NA scene especially, the best team for a while ROOT couldn't even get a single sponsor or funding and largely payed their way themselves to MLG etc.
You can't compare the Korean scene to NA scene. IF they simply let koreans rape everyone what will it do to actually advance the NA scene or help any of those teams. If their goal is the growth of foreign teams, how does having a finals full of koreans help them in any way?
GSL exists, TSL3 exists, etc. Overall it makes sense. Protectionism makes sense in this case because it's not in any way a level playing field in terms of financial / cultural support for "pro gaming". NASL should be protective of foreign players / english speakers. It doesn't aim to be a "GSL", it aims to be a north American pro gaming league. TSL 1-2 did the same things.
Compare NA scene to Korean scene right now in SC2.
Compare NA scene to Korean scene in broodwar.
I think there is still a big gap in both of those situations so I can definitely see siding with NASL's goals of promoting western esports. and not just letting a much more developed scene crush them because they have to coach/promote 8 hours a day to make money.
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On March 16 2011 06:51 Backpack wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 06:47 red4ce wrote:
Given the huge prize pool in NASL, the skill level of the competitors should be nothing but the best. Invite MVP, MC, Nestea, Nada, and Julyzerg. Agreed. If we say disallow top level players than what is the point of having a "Starleague" in the first place? SC2 doesn't have the big gap between Koreans and Foreigners but not letting them play in the NASL would just create a gap. We've already seen 3 "white dudes" make it into Code S, so now the rest of them will just have to step up their game to compete in the NASL.
Then why hold it in North America? There is no dispute (well, between anybody who knows anything) that the best players are in Korea. If they wanted to just hold a tournament with only the best players they would hold it for the Koreans and then have possible sparing invites to foreigners. The NASL might state their goals as being interested in the best tournament with the best players, but there is obviously more to it than that (thankfully).
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Also for the fear about being outclassed. See it that way many foreingers are most likely to try out new training methods (team houses or friends living together). For example the Root and fnatic guys. Then there is TLO and some swedish players that will maybe move together. If this will work out great for these guys maybe more top foreigners will try out the same and maybe be on the same level as the koreans.
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On March 16 2011 06:47 seaofsaturn wrote:
Just do the equivalent that GSL does... invite a few. Why would you want more Koreans than North Americans playing in a North American League? This league has already shown that North Americans are willing to live together in order to train and get better, so its just a matter of time before the gap closes.
The equivalent of what GSL does would be to reserve 5 spots solely for Koreans and still allow as many other Koreans to apply through the same means as everyone else and be considered in a nationality-blind manner.
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i have a feeling that these kinds of polls will have very little influence on whom the NASL chooses. Teamliquid is full of diehard fans and it seems like the NASL is trying to reach the masses that do not watch starcraft already. If they think that inviting more of the top NA/EU players will bring in more viewers, then they will do so. With that said, I would rather have the top koreans playing even if it means less NA/EU players. I mostly follow the NA scene and the GSL. I really have no idea what is going on in the EU scene unless its a major competition like IEM or Dreamhack.
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Its not reasonable to disallow koreans, but as it is an invitational obviously entertainment value and diversity need to be taken into account alongside the actual skill of the players. This means inviting a limited number of koreans despite their superior skills in order to allow a greater range of players into the tournament.
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EPT
