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On March 16 2011 06:50 Pokebunny wrote:
I'd just like to say that a HARD BAN on koreans is not totally necessary. I haven't really decided whether I'd rather see tip top level koreans or code a / low code s koreans were they chosen.
Yeah I would really enjoy if they specifically invited players that are designated as worse than others also.
On March 16 2011 06:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
Its retarded.
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In the NASL preview it says "the greatest players The world has ever seen," limiting the koreans from playing just lowers the skill level. If I'm a spectator, I'm obviously going to watch the one with the best players, not the one with a lot of good players.
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I could see entertaining games between bronze players, but that is not why I watch Starcraft 2 games. I want to see the peak of play that people are reaching in SC2, even if it's a roflstomp. I want to see a match and think "OH MY GOD THIS GUY IS SO GOOD HOW CAN HE EVER LOSE!?".
Watching sub-par play, even if it's between 2 'top' NA players who are interesting guys, is not something i particularly enjoy.
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I'm not sure if I understand the anti-korean competition argument. I guess people are saying it would be boring to see the tournament dominated by non english speaking personalities? I personally think theres a certain degree of mystique surrounding the korean players when they compete in a foreign competition and I think the value of an NASL title would be greatly diminished if they excluded the best players in the world.
Imagine if a foreigner took down the NASL title by going through MVP and nestea... instant and permanent e-fame. legendary status for the rest of his life. While on the other hand if koreans were intentionally excluded, an NASL title would have as much value as morrow's IEM victory last year or huk's MLG win (before idra and jinro were even in it) Both wins were great but far from legendary
I guess there are two types of spectators in sc2 currently, those who prefer MLG/IEM and those who prefer GSL. I greatly prefer GSL myself
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As a spectator I just want to see great games, then the top Koreans are required in the tournament.
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I can imagine the letter now. "We're sorry, Julyzerg, we were going to invite you, but then you made it to the finals, and now we're afraid you might win our tournament..." Really?
There are going to be open qualifiers for future seasons, and unless they're really dumb about it, the Koreans are going to get in that way, so why not be reasonable and let the really good ones who apply in now?
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Invitational was stupid to begin with anyway.
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Why would you settle for subpar games? NASL stated itself it wants the world's best players.
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If there are any Koreans invited, I would like to see guys who have a really good reputation but haven't been able to crack Code A. Bomber, Seed, HyeJun, are 3 guys who would be nice to see. Also, it would make sense for Korean teams to get their "B-teamers" some experience this way.
Since this is the NORTH AMERICAN starleague, I want to see mostly NA players with some EU and about 5 KR/SEA players.
My split(which means nothing) would be 30 NA 15 EU 5 KR/SEA
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why don't NASL just simply invite one of korean team? like oGs, Prime, TSL or any other?
and have them bring in 1 or 2 code S player, 2 or 3 code A player, and 1 or 2 code B player.
i think it will be more fun this way.
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The league will only benefit from a proper mix of competition and entertainment. The league doesn't need "just the best" to be successful.
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Voted for 5 very best koreans, I think 5-10 Koreans sounds about right.
Obviously having a league with 50% Koreans just because you wanted "the best players" is not a good idea either.
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I'm questioning the neccesity of this thread. The heated discussion in the VODS thread was just 1 guy going nazi on the koreans and everyone else telling him how wrong he is.
I beleive it was InControl that stated already that as long as it doesnt become a bigger issue that they participate(issues such as translations and that they actually show up for the games as it is in the middle of the night or early morning in Korea) they would gladly invite them on even terms as the rest of the world so any debate is pointless really.
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Bit like saying european football teams shouldnt have foreign players, the detroit red wings should be banned from the NHL and that people wont go watch UFC fights because there are too many brazilians on the card.
Why not do (just as an example):
5 players minimum from each region:
10 slots that can go to any region based on nothing but performance.
I hope NASL is dedicated to providing the best games possible and isnt aiming to become a playground for washed up beta pros that want to make some easy money.
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On March 16 2011 06:58 Pudge_172 wrote:
If there are any Koreans invited, I would like to see guys who have a really good reputation but haven't been able to crack Code A. Bomber, Seed, HyeJun, are 3 guys who would be nice to see. Also, it would make sense for Korean teams to get their "B-teamers" some experience this way.
Since this is the NORTH AMERICAN starleague, I want to see mostly NA players with some EU and about 5 KR/SEA players.
My split(which means nothing) would be 30 NA 15 EU 5 KR/SEA
That would be totally cool for me.
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On March 16 2011 06:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Its retarded. Why do you think any of the non-koreans that went to GSL, went to GSL for? For the same fucking reason Koreans want to play NASL. Show nested quote +Note that this poll assumes that the skill level of top Code A Koreans is about the same as the skill of the top foreigners, which we can assume to be true from IEM. While its not that untrue, how can we assume that from IEM when it was won by 3 players who all failed round 1 of Code A? I mean, that wouldnt really qualify as top code A level to me evidence wise.
I think Jinro summed this up the best way. Why would we want to start segregating now? If there aren't any rules which indicate ONLY Americans can participate it's an open tournament on the world stage and imo, the BEST Players, the players that put in the most effort and dedication deserve to be recognized and invited.
We all know if we refused to invite Koreans, that is a snowball rolling down the hill. It opens the door for other things which isn't a positive atmosphere, and the attention/controversies garnered is something I'm sure NASL doesn't want to associated with.
We all know if the victor of the tournament was a non-Korean with NO Korean invites, it would be a hallow victory. TSL3 is a brilliant example of what NASL should follow IMO. The best in the world, for the best tournament. ^^
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let them come, no point if not the absolute best is there  ))
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NASL should have some sort of a qualifier, with the invite system you run into issues like these.
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im just sayin if there are not many koreans in the NASL, I dont have any clue how "foreigners" will ever reach their skill level.
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On March 16 2011 06:51 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 06:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Its retarded. Why do you think any of the non-koreans that went to GSL, went to GSL for? For the same fucking reason Koreans want to play NASL. Note that this poll assumes that the skill level of top Code A Koreans is about the same as the skill of the top foreigners, which we can assume to be true from IEM. While its not that untrue, how can we assume that from IEM when it was won by 3 players who all failed round 1 of Code A? I mean, that wouldnt really qualify as top code A level to me evidence wise. Do you think its the same considering GSL players have to stay in Korea for at least a month once they qualify for top 64, while Koreans would only have to fly into NA for one week every three months or so?
That's not the issue, the issue is that the motivation for flying to GSL is for the money, fame, and the chance to win the most prestigious tournament in SC2, not because they love the korean community and wish to interact with them. That being said, I don't think someone's motivation for playing are even relevant.
Fan interaction, community interaction, production value, drama and hype are all important, but should not be the focal point of any respectable starleague. Playing the game and having the best games possible should be. Obviously that is not completely in the control of the league, but it has the best chance of happening when you have the best players playing instead of random "up and coming" mid/low tier players from mid/low tier teams.
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EPT
