EPTNASL: Koreans? Top Koreans? - Page 6
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OmniscientSC2
United States713 Posts
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thesauceishot
Canada333 Posts
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:09 adeezy wrote: you must not watch the GSL then if you think that limiting korean input is gonna make for better games I don't watch the GSL cuz I got bored after watching a few games. I much prefer mlg/iem. | ||
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dacthehork
United States2000 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:05 Dalavita wrote: If NA/EU want to be as good as koreans, they need to play the koreans, and play LIKE the koreans. Not inviting koreans to NASL is just limiting the experience you bring in and gain from the tournament, and makes no sense. not really The main difference is financial incentive. Put out big tournaments with big money and you will get people working hard for that shit. Slot it full of koreans who already have GSL, TSL3, and even MLG they can attend doesn't make sense. If you payed attention to NASL talk they even mention how this is a tournament for non koreans and they dont want a ton of korean players because they have plenty of opportunities and it will help NA/EU grow | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
Comparing with GSL and foreigners who went to Korea is irrelevant imo : foreigners basically move away from their country to live to the other side of the world. Korean playing in NASL just mean that, 2 or 3 times a week, they'll have to wake up early and play from their home, and going to NA only if they are sure of a big paycheck. No comparison is possible here, foreigners are making a life changing move while koreans just have to record a youtube video. In fact, this problem is this : if koreans are allowed, they'll likely win it all and bring back the funds to Korea. If they are not allowed, the level of play will be lower, but the money will go to the foreigner scene, helping create team houses, and in long term will allow foreigners to compete with koreans in term of skill, because foreigners will have access to the same infrastructure as koreans. Simple as that, and I still don't know what option I want... | ||
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Zeke50100
United States2220 Posts
It's absolutely ridiculous to exclude a group of people (which is, in fact, a horrible generalization) because you want to "support community relationships" (at least if you're an advocate of hosting a tournament for only the best). If you want to host a tournament with only people who "contribute" (read: people who actively post on TL/stream/etc.), then go ahead; just don't take the name North American Star League. | ||
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dookudooku
255 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:03 I_Love_Bacon wrote: The argument has 2 main components. 1: Familiarity. Many of the people who will be competing in the NASL are people who legitimately interact with THIS community. They do interviews, stream, post on these very forums, etc... many of them have a fan base for their personality, not just their gaming abilities. Because of that, adding in the Koreans, who are very, very different in that regard, don't mesh as well. 2: People want to see the NASL and MLG (or any other tournaments) be able to succeed. To have long term success, the player skill has to grow higher than it is now, closer (or at) the GSL level. In order to facilitate that, allowing few or no Koreans increases the likelihood of a foreigner winning more prize money. This encourages the player to be able to play SC2 professionally, and not just as a hobby. When this happens, ideally more and more people can then get team houses and legitimately compete at the top level of the GSL players when they are allowed to dedicate themselves to the game. Then, after this has happened, then restrictions wont even be needed. Somebody earlier mentioned protectionism as an example from economics and I think it's a fairly solid example of what their goals are. While I think having too many Koreans would be bad for the league, I do think Koreans will be able to mesh well with the other players and fans of the league. At the end of the day, we all have the same common interest, which is playing sc2, and that can easily transcend language and cultural barriers. Japanese players have been coming over to play SF tournaments (which generally has far smaller prizes than SC2), and that has contributed greatly to the SF scene. It's raised the level of competition and now both sides of the Pacific show much greater interest in each other. Also, these Japanese players are only in the States for a FEW WEEKENDS each year. How is all of this possible? It's because there are extremely dedicated and caring individuals who truly reach out to the community on the other side of the Pacific. And these people usually are not great players themselves, but they know how to represent and assist good players in establishing connections with players in other countries. | ||
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adeezy
United States1428 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:09 Pokebunny wrote: I don't watch the GSL cuz I got bored after watching a few games. I much prefer mlg/iem. I'm sorry then that just means your opinion in the OP is just kind of null. It means you have no evidence to saying why its going to be more boring. I'm just going to attribute your opinion to nationalistic bias. Whats the point of saying games will be boring if you don't even watch the games yourself, it's making an opinion about things you don't even see for yourself. If you check out the GSL and click reccomended games, youll see a TON of 90%+ yes games, however if you checked out MLG or IEM, there was definitely a ton more lackluster games. | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:07 Pokebunny wrote: I've stated a million times this has nothing to do with my interests as a player, purely as a spectator. I don't expect to get in either way. You want to see worse players play as a spectator? Why? What makes foreigners more entertaining to watch? I can have an emotional investment in a Korean player even if I don't know a damn thing about them, just because I like their play and seeing them win so much. In fact I haven't felt the need to care about any foreign player nearly as much because their play is less inspiring. | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
the poll said to post others in thread The NASL should predetermine a number of spots available for Korean players, and host some sort of qualifiers. Not only would that ensure the players that come are of a high level, but it would help gauge the interest from the Korean pros. If NesTea, MC, etc were applying, the NASL could decide to allow for a Korean house, much as GOM did for foreigners. Or, they could decide to cap the possible skill level of Korean invites (no code-s players allowed for example). In my opinion, it would be prudent for the NASL to get a good judge of the interest from the highest level Korean players. In order to do so, applications for koreans should exist just as they do for everyone else- and if there is a demand, an offline play-in tournament doesn't seem overly difficult to accomplish. | ||
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Cyberus
Germany148 Posts
The western players are so accessible through interviews, facebook, streams etc. In addition to good play that's how you build a fanbase. | ||
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wordd
Australia190 Posts
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Zorkey
Netherlands167 Posts
B == 50/A I want B amount of Koreans (and that would be the best ones, since NA/EU/SEA and stuff are getting the best players in to). that would be an easy way todo this, while i agree i enjoy watching foreigners a bit more. i mean for some reason its easyer to become a "fan" of them. excluding koreans while shouting you want esports to grow globally seems a bit uhh... whats it called, hypocrittycal? And seeing foreigners beat great korean players is awesome. | ||
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SmoKim
Denmark10304 Posts
Invite the very best players in the world even if that means very few NA and EU players in the NASL but NOT like this in any way | ||
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ParasitJonte
Sweden1768 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:08 JustPassingBy wrote: Weird, I always thought that u.s. citizens were all over the idea of the free market and survival of the fittest inside of it? Anyways, some of the sponsors of sc2 over in korea, are actually multinational companies. And seeing how all those skill-wise tournaments find Sponsors I think there are willing companies to invest into esports as part of their marketing. Hence, if some team gets together, practise their asses off and prove that they have a legit chance of being the foreign team that can tackle the koreans, I bet some company will start noticing them sooner or later. Didn't the first sc2 teams in Korea only arose from the manager taking a loan and the players "work" without salaries for the sake of their sport? This is what I call dedication and by now, I bet most of them have been awarded for that by finding those sponsors you speak of. Please don't use "survival of the fittest" in the same sentence... Still, you're point is very valid. The one thing that will increase skill outside korea is competition from korea. This has been validated empiricially in economics. No reason why the same laws don't apply here. Protectionism from korean competition will stagnate skill outside korea. It will be like in brood war where the very best players could go inactive for months and then just come back a couple of weeks before WCG and win it. Of course they would then die miserably at WCG when they faced koreans... | ||
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Rokk
United States425 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:07 Butcherski wrote: I dont care about drama, personalities and "rivalries'. Things like that should take a back seat when it comes to competitive "sports". I want to see the best game. Just the very idea that western competitive scene should be built without the best players is making my head hurt. Get your priorities straight. Especially people LIKE pokebunny who knows that he cant compete on the highest level. START PRACTICIING AND NOT BEGGING FOR YOUR SPOT. Eh... one of the big draws for competitive sports is the drama, personalities, and especially the rivalries. I think the nasl is spot on in that regard. There's just no reason you can't build the same thing with a few Koreans that you can with all Americans. | ||
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spancho
United States161 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 16 2011 06:50 spancho wrote: Considering that the GSL makes foreigners fly to Korea to compete (even though its the "Global" Star League), seams fair for the NASL to force anyone who wants to compete to fly to NA and have to go through rounds of elimination. HayprO, even though he was a top foreigner still didnt make it into the first couple of GSL rounds he tried for. Makes sense then that oGsMC should have to get cheesed out of a couple of prelims for the NASL. What are you talking about? The NASL doesn't have prelims for the 50 invited players, and the majority of the tournament (besides the 16man finals) takes place online. All GSL matches are played at a live LAN, so any competitors must be in Korea to play. The situations are not comparable. My point is that there should be an even opportunity cost for all players in both tournaments. Huk and his ilk were forced to fly over seas for what is supposed to be a "global" tourny. There is no foreign cap in the GSL, and no foreign invites. Inorder to play you have to pay (or get someone to pay for you) to get to the prelims while sacrificing playing in non-Korean tournies. If Koreans want to play in the NASL they should have to at least go through the same trials that a foreigner who wants to play in the GSL has to go through. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:11 adeezy wrote: I'm sorry then that just means your opinion in the OP is just kind of null. It means you have no evidence to saying why its going to be more boring. I'm just going to attribute your opinion to nationalistic bias. If you check out the GSL and click reccomended games, youll see a TON of 90%+ yes games, however if you checked out MLG or IEM, there was definitely a ton more lackluster games. Null? My opinion is based entirely off what I'd rather watch. Take it however you'd like, if you don't care, then whatever. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On March 16 2011 07:09 Pokebunny wrote: I don't watch the GSL cuz I got bored after watching a few games. I much prefer mlg/iem. You should change your attitude, guess who comes out with the top strategies... Koreans. | ||
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nvs.
Canada3609 Posts
We knew we had to go big or go home. We needed an epic prize pool. We needed the best players. Most importantly, we needed the passion and excitement that comes from competition at the highest level; from watching two masters battle it out knowing that only one will win. Given this statement it would be highly hypocritical if only "Code A and below players" were invited. It would go directly against the stated mission of the league itself. | ||
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