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NASL: Koreans? Top Koreans? - Page 8

Forum Index > SC2 General
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DiaBoLuS
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany1638 Posts
March 15 2011 22:17 GMT
#141
The best thing would be
GSL - koreans only
EUSL - europeans only
NASL - north american only

with almost same prize money and then inviting the top 10 of each tour to a huge tournament.

but thats not possible i guess :/
European Ranking: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=182293
ShyRamen
Profile Joined July 2010
United States322 Posts
March 15 2011 22:17 GMT
#142
Korea > Europe > NA

that's the food chain.

the Jinro has spoken.
I agree with him.

I voted for "invite few of the very top ones"
TemplarCo.
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Mexico2870 Posts
March 15 2011 22:18 GMT
#143
On March 16 2011 07:12 zeru wrote:
In my opinion

Better players=better games=better entertainment.

Would love to see lots of koreans.


Ok, lets say what you say is true, in some cases it is (MC BoxeR NaDa), but there are better players, (getting farther in GSL) that just cheese, *coughs* BitByBit *coughs* and thats not having a good game, like Day9 once talked about how he hates waking up at 3 am to watch bunker rush after bunker rush.
In many cases better players (koreans) does not mean better entertainment.

Sorry for double post but, I didn't see that post, just a few minutes ago.
With an average game length of 7m36s over his 6 games in GSL3, this is a no-brainer. BitByBit pulls more SCVs than yo momma at a club on Mar Sara. ♞
space_yes
Profile Joined April 2010
United States548 Posts
March 15 2011 22:18 GMT
#144
Removing high level players from any server will decrease the overall quality of the games. Including the Koreans will only increase the skill of NA players over-time and ensure the NASL is one of the biggest and baddest Starcraft 2 leagues in the world. Where else will you be able to watch North Americans vs Koreans vs Europeans?
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
March 15 2011 22:18 GMT
#145
On March 16 2011 07:17 DiaBoLuS wrote:
The best thing would be
GSL - koreans only
EUSL - europeans only
NASL - north american only

with almost same prize money and then inviting the top 10 of each tour to a huge tournament.

but thats not possible i guess :/

I think this would be cool too, but we're not there yet.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
vyyye
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden3917 Posts
March 15 2011 22:18 GMT
#146
On March 16 2011 07:14 adeezy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2011 07:12 Pokebunny wrote:
On March 16 2011 07:11 adeezy wrote:
On March 16 2011 07:09 Pokebunny wrote:
On March 16 2011 07:09 adeezy wrote:
On March 16 2011 07:08 Pokebunny wrote:
On March 16 2011 07:07 Butcherski wrote:
I dont care about drama, personalities and "rivalries'. Things like that should take a back seat when it comes to competitive "sports". I want to see the best game. Just the very idea that western competitive scene should be built without the best players is making my head hurt.

Get your priorities straight.

Especially people LIKE pokebunny who knows that he cant compete on the highest level. START PRACTICIING AND NOT BEGGING FOR YOUR SPOT.

Again, I don't think I'm worthy of a spot nor do I expect it. My opinion here is given purely as a spectator.


you must not watch the GSL then if you think that limiting korean input is gonna make for better games

I don't watch the GSL cuz I got bored after watching a few games. I much prefer mlg/iem.


I'm sorry then that just means your opinion in the OP is just kind of null. It means you have no evidence to saying why its going to be more boring. I'm just going to attribute your opinion to nationalistic bias. If you check out the GSL and click reccomended games, youll see a TON of 90%+ yes games, however if you checked out MLG or IEM, there was definitely a ton more lackluster games.

Null? My opinion is based entirely off what I'd rather watch. Take it however you'd like, if you don't care, then whatever.


Rather watch is thus based on subjective evidence rather than actual content. If you slapped korean level games such as July mutalisk harass but you had IdrA playing it? You'd be all over it even more? That's not fair to the scene or the players in it. Personally as a spectator I'm color blind. I don't care who is playing as long as I am watching interesting games, it just happens that 90% of those are korean pro amtches.

It's not like he's unique case. I don't care at all about the World Cup finals in football (soccer for you Americans), but I'll watch a very mediocre game played by Sweden and actually enjoy watching it.
Same in the GSL for me, not one moment throughout season 1-4 had my heart pumping as much as TLO v. Hyperdub, Jinro v. Idra or Jinro v. MC series. You could argue that there were games with more skill in them but hell, doesn't mean everyone will enjoy them as much.

You might not care about who's playing, but a lot of people do.
A3iL3r0n
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States2196 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 22:21:30
March 15 2011 22:18 GMT
#147
There appears to be strong benefits in "protecting" non-Korean players in a large tournament, as it would theoretically have greater commercial appeal, i.e. the bulk of the industry growth in the US/EU will come from casual and new fans getting sucked and turning into serious fans.

Short-term, it will reduce the tournament's prestige. Long-term, I think it could be the right move. At least part of the reason Koreans are so far ahead is that they have sponsorships which enable them to game as a profession (duh). This is the huge disadvantage of foreigners (ofc). What if all the best US/EU players could live in their own country, speak their own language, discuss strategy with other top players and ladder all day? It's not insane to think that US/EU could produce some dominant players of our own. We need those sponsorship dollars.

Will promoting a US/EU player as the "best" be able sell more product? I don't know.

+ Show Spoiler +
Why can't the NASL have exclusive player contracts and create a league? Where your players don't play in GSL, and the Korean players would have to agree to play exclusively for NASL. That way you're avoiding direct comparison, and you have a stable base of players who fans can follow year-in and year-out. I'm sure doing something like this would be complicated and more expensive, but seems like a good idea.
My psychiatrist says I have deep-seated Ragneuroses :(
Raisauce
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada864 Posts
March 15 2011 22:18 GMT
#148
There's a reason why IdrA and Tyler are my favourite players. It has nothing to do with their skill level. They offer more to me (a spectator) then any random Korean would. I'd much rather watch them play than any other Korean, doesn't matter if its MC, MVP, MKP, etc. Foreigners are more fun to watch. Simple as that. I don't get why people are questioning why people wouldn't want Koreans in NASL. TSL1 and 2 didn't have the "best in the world", yet they turned out to be very entertaining. We need the North American scene to grow and making it exclusively for foreigners is the only way it's going to happen.

btw, i'm in class and extremely tired. so mind my grammar!
adeezy
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1428 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 22:20:47
March 15 2011 22:19 GMT
#149
On March 16 2011 07:18 TemplarCo. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2011 07:12 zeru wrote:
In my opinion

Better players=better games=better entertainment.

Would love to see lots of koreans.


Ok, lets say what you say is true, in some cases it is (MC BoxeR NaDa), but there are better players, (getting farther in GSL) that just cheese, *coughs* BitByBit *coughs* and thats not having a good game, like Day9 once talked about how he hates waking up at 3 am to watch bunker rush after bunker rush.
In many cases better players (koreans) does not mean better entertainment.

Sorry for double post but, I didn't see that post, just a few minutes ago.


To the post above me.... I get what you're saying but a large reason you like to watch IdrA or tyler is because we can identify witht hem. They post on TL, they participate in SoTG so it's nice to see them play. That shouldn't make you not want to watch other games because of bias >.>
To be fair bitbybit isn't around really and neither is the cheesy terran early rushes, GSL has upped the ante in entertainment this season
I asked my friend how the ratio at a party was, he replied. "Let's just say for every guy there was two dudes."
guluru
Profile Joined August 2010
United States83 Posts
March 15 2011 22:19 GMT
#150
I just think that if NASL wants to help western eSports than it should have more competitors from the "west" than those from Korea. Having another tournament that is just mainly Koreans won't help at all. Sure it'll give some of your wishes for "the very best games," but I for one would not want that. I do not at all mind if there are Koreans in the league, but the idea of having more than EU/NA is just plain ridiculous and again is not helping eSports in the west. I will watch no matter the decision because the games are fun to watch. The players will be 50 strong players no matter what and it will be entertaining to watch. The argument that watching two NA/EU top players go at it is not fun to watch at all, and that people would skip over NASL if that was the case is beyond me.
IPA
Profile Joined August 2010
United States3206 Posts
March 15 2011 22:19 GMT
#151
Banning Korean players would be silly, unsportsmanlike, shortsighted and bad for NA/EU's development.
Time held me green and dying though I sang in my chains like the sea.
Mithriel
Profile Joined November 2010
Netherlands2969 Posts
March 15 2011 22:20 GMT
#152
I voted for inviting the very best.

Though at start it might seem Koreans might rule the scene, i am confident it won't come that far. There are enough dedicated and insanely skilled players outside of Korea that given the opportunity will mass games and practice their asses off to be on the same level.

You'll never get the same amount of high skilled tournament with hopefully a long live span without.

I mean, you cant hold a world championship football and not invite spain because they are european and world champion (bad sports metaphor, change it in what you like) and might be boring for the other competitors.....

I love watching games of the highest level, do not care where the players are from.

There is no shame in defeat so long as the spirit is unconquered. | Cheering for Maru, Innovation and MMA!
Rokk
Profile Joined March 2010
United States425 Posts
March 15 2011 22:20 GMT
#153
On March 16 2011 07:16 Pokebunny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2011 07:15 infinity2k9 wrote:
On March 16 2011 07:07 Pokebunny wrote:
On March 16 2011 07:06 infinity2k9 wrote:
On March 16 2011 07:02 LagT_T wrote:
Invite none. If they want to play, make them pay for everything foreigners had to pay for when they wanted to play sc:bw in Korea.


This doesn't make any sense. Are you gonna say the same for Europeans?

Btw it's pretty obvious why Pokebunny has a hidden reason for asking this, i'll see if you can work it out.

I've stated a million times this has nothing to do with my interests as a player, purely as a spectator. I don't expect to get in either way.


There's foreigner only tournaments running all the time you can watch. If there's going to be a 100k prize per month you want the best simple as that; The top EU/NA players are on salary anyway so they can afford to practice just as much as Koreans. If they still lose? Then they were not good enough.

I want to see more people, not just the top 16 in the world being able to make anything close to an average living.

Small steps dude. Let's work on developing a bigger tournament and community here first, then we can worry about everyone else after. Hopefully with the longer tournament, we can create more incentive for sponsors to sponsor the lesser known teams, because they'll still be playing a ton of matches every week.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
March 15 2011 22:20 GMT
#154
I'm sorry, but there will be MORE drama, the more Koreans are involved, than drama just because two anglophones are playing. More 'see how this foreigner compares against a Korean player' matches. Way more drama.
Holdinga
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Bulgaria300 Posts
March 15 2011 22:20 GMT
#155
The truth is - Koreans are humans too. Anything they can achieve, we (foreigners) can achieve too. It's a matter of practice, motivation, hard work and thinking. It will be easier for the foreigners to improve by playing the koreans. Those that dont practice enough, dont deserve to be up there
JoxxOr
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Sweden1502 Posts
March 15 2011 22:20 GMT
#156
On March 16 2011 07:17 DiaBoLuS wrote:
The best thing would be
GSL - koreans only
EUSL - europeans only
NASL - north american only

with almost same prize money and then inviting the top 10 of each tour to a huge tournament.

but thats not possible i guess :/

Could you try to pronounce EUSL? :D

That would be a fucked up name :=)
Gör om, gör rätt
Benjef
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United Kingdom6921 Posts
March 15 2011 22:20 GMT
#157
Other: I would say about 10 of the top Code S Koreans.
<3 | Dota 2 | DayZ | <3
pAzand
Profile Joined May 2010
Sweden539 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 22:24:00
March 15 2011 22:21 GMT
#158
Isn't competing on the same level as the Koreans what the Starcraft community always wanted? And now when it's about to happen you want to dig in and cry about them being better? Jinro, Idra and somewhat Huk has shown the way in Korea, that it's possible to do just that in SC2. If "we" want to be taken serious in Korea and as a league (NASL) we have to have the best players from all over the world.

For every win a foreigner earns against a Korean, the "fear" for them is going to go away and the skill cap will get smaller, not wider as would be the case if we alienated us from the koreans. If we want to compete with them we have to do just that, compete with them. How can this even be an issue?

My proposal is something like this:
A minimum of ~15 North-, Central- & South Americans in EVERY NASL season.
A minimum of ~15 Euros.
A minimum of 5 Koreans (5 invites this season, and Koreans can qualify like everybody else the next season and well, they won't fall down probably)

If we want the NASL to continue after the first 3 seasons we need the very best players the West got to offer and a group och Koreans so we know if the skillcap is growing, if that's the case, then we need to get more team houses in Korea. It's a golden opportunity, don't throw it away just cause some people don't like to face reality (maybe Koreans will always be better or that they themself doesn't really deserve a spot in the league)

If you can chill.. Chill!
Lobo2me
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway1213 Posts
March 15 2011 22:21 GMT
#159
Inviting too many koreans in the first season might not work out for the best. Remember that every season the bottom 16 in group stages will go out, and 16 people from the top 8 of two different tournaments will get in, so if they're really interested in playing internationally they should be able to get in quickly anyways.
Bad manners are better than no manners at all.
KevinIX
Profile Joined October 2009
United States2472 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-03-15 22:23:12
March 15 2011 22:21 GMT
#160
Meh. I assumed it was call the North American Star League because it's held on North American soil.

I don't see why it has restrict entry to only North Americans. The whole point of the NASL was for a Star League in our own backyard where we don't have to wake up at 5 in the morning just to watch.
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