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On March 16 2011 07:22 Cyberus wrote:
There has been so much talk about NASL helping the groth of WESTERN ESPORTS. If they turned it into GSL #2 it would only help out the Korean scene, because then only the name would have "NA" in it and except for a few forgein players there would be nothing "western" about it
It won't turn into GSL #2 though. No matter what they do NASL is in North America and the GSL is in Korea. Koreans play in a live environment in the GSL while they play with ridiculous latency in the NASL.
Guess which one top Koreans would prefer to participate in, if they could only choose one. If that wasn't the case the latency alone should be quite a deterrent. I'm confident in saying that top Western players would have a good chance at beating top Koreans with latency on their side.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there'll be a limit whether they force one or not. Forcing one seems slightly.. unethical? Maybe too strong of a word considering the circumstances, but it doesn't entirely feel right either.
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On March 16 2011 07:17 DiaBoLuS wrote:
The best thing would be
GSL - koreans only
EUSL - europeans only
NASL - north american only
with almost same prize money and then inviting the top 10 of each tour to a huge tournament.
but thats not possible i guess :/
Are you insane? Its like saying, the bundesliga for Germans only. Horrendous, the league would be.
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On March 16 2011 07:24 DiaBoLuS wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 07:22 Cyberus wrote:
There has been so much talk about NASL helping the groth of WESTERN ESPORTS. If they turned it into GSL #2 it would only help out the Korean scene, because then only the name would have "NA" in it and except for a few forgein players there would be nothing "western" about it inviting no koreans will acutally not help the western e-sports at all, it will make the nasl more or less meaningless. voted for 5, maybe 10 (2 per group) would be ok as well.
Oh yeah I totally agree. That's what I voted for as well. What I was refering to is the "best players = almost only koreans" approach
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And here I thought NASL was meant to grow esports in the west. Somehow I don't see how it will be much different than GSL if 45 koreans and 5 foreigners will be competing.
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On March 16 2011 07:25 infinity2k9 wrote:
Pokebunny how the fuck can you say you are not talking from a player perspective when you have VOTE FOR ME IN THE NASL in your signature?
Anyway, let's just say there was 50 white guys only in the tournament. Why is that somehow more interesting considering a lot of the tournament is online anyway? You aren't going to see them. Even if you could; How does it make any difference if there's a white guy sitting in the booth rather than an Asian? Most of the foreigners hardly have massive personalities, they just look awkward as fuck ie. IdrA.
do I want to be in NASL? Of course. That doesn't mean all my opinions about what I'd like to see as a spectator are invalid. I don't expect to come close to making NASL.
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Pokebunny how the fuck can you say you are not talking from a player perspective when you have VOTE FOR ME IN THE NASL in your signature?
Because he's hedging his bets. In one post he says he doesn't expect to get in and in another he says you'd be hard pressed to find 50 NA players better than me. I don't really know where he stands...
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On March 16 2011 07:22 Kikimiki wrote:
How can we say its a competition when you ban the best from competing in it.
Absolutely this. There is no point to winning or even watching a tournament that ultimately doesn't matter, because it has restricted the entry so that the best players can't even participate. It's like winning the special olympics.
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On March 16 2011 07:17 DiaBoLuS wrote:
The best thing would be
GSL - koreans only
EUSL - europeans only
NASL - north american only
with almost same prize money and then inviting the top 10 of each tour to a huge tournament.
but thats not possible i guess :/
I think this would further seperate the 3 areas of sc2, we already have no cross region play, it would force players to only play against local people, which i think its terrible for sc2. i envision sc2 as a global sport, not a sport in korea, na and euro. if that makes sense
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On March 16 2011 07:24 Pudge_172 wrote:
I think the point of NASL is to grow the NA and secondarily the EU scene so those players can eventually compete against the Koreans..
If we lock ourselves in, there's no way we're ever gonna keep up with the Koreans. The chances of foreigners keeping up with them is slim to begin with. The foreign pros need that competition to not get lazy.
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On March 16 2011 07:27 nvs. wrote:Show nested quote +Pokebunny how the fuck can you say you are not talking from a player perspective when you have VOTE FOR ME IN THE NASL in your signature? Because he's hedging his bets. In one post he says he doesn't expect to get in and in another he says you'd be hard pressed to find 50 NA players better than me. I don't really know where he stands...
NA players, sure. NA + EU + a couple koreans, not so much.
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On March 16 2011 06:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Its retarded. Why do you think any of the non-koreans that went to GSL, went to GSL for? For the same fucking reason Koreans want to play NASL. Show nested quote +Note that this poll assumes that the skill level of top Code A Koreans is about the same as the skill of the top foreigners, which we can assume to be true from IEM. While its not that untrue, how can we assume that from IEM when it was won by 3 players who all failed round 1 of Code A? I mean, that wouldnt really qualify as top code A level to me evidence wise.
100 agreed. not inviteing the top players that do apply would be retarded and unfair (just because their korean's) Borderline Racism, if Foreigners got the chance to compete in GSL, they should be able to compete in NASL aswell. no matter how little NA/EU players there will be. watching Foreigners compete vs Koreans is like the only thing i watch these days. Foreigners vs Foreigners has no hype atm at all.
IMO!
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On March 16 2011 07:25 infinity2k9 wrote:
One thing i forgot: Pokebunny how the fuck can you say you are not talking from a player perspective when you have VOTE FOR ME IN THE NASL in your signature?
Anyway, let's just say there was 50 white guys only in the tournament. Why is that somehow more interesting considering a lot of the tournament is online anyway? You aren't going to see them. Even if you could; How does it make any difference if there's a white guy sitting in the booth rather than an Asian? Most of the foreigners hardly have massive personalities, they just look awkward as fuck ie. IdrA.
Exactly. I'm not going to go out and say pokebunny doesn't want them there because he'd have to play better competition but he's not unbiased either.
As for the people who say they want to watch NA players, I think that's borderline xenophobic/racist. Why the hell does it matter if the players are Korean if the 50 invites who end up there are the best players? It's called the NASL because it's in North America, nowhere did they say that it would (or should) be western only. The GSL is mostly Koreans because it's in Korea, but you'd all be pissed if they said it was Korean only...their tournaments don't exclude anyone from playing, ours shouldn't either. The best of the best should play, period.
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I'll leave everything about fairness, marketing and whatnot aside:
For me the most entertaining games come from the best players, I don't care where they're from.
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On March 16 2011 07:28 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 07:17 DiaBoLuS wrote:
The best thing would be
GSL - koreans only
EUSL - europeans only
NASL - north american only
with almost same prize money and then inviting the top 10 of each tour to a huge tournament.
but thats not possible i guess :/ I think this would further seperate the 3 areas of sc2, we already have no cross region play, it would force players to only play against local people, which i think its terrible for sc2. i envision sc2 as a global sport, not a sport in korea, na and euro. if that makes sense
there are tons of other tournaments were everything mixes up. but still, nothing is 100% satisfying :/
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Seriously, this isn't the fucking special olympics.
Whats with option 2: Invite about 5 Code A level Koreans
Let me rephrase this "Invite some koreans so that people will stop levelling charges of parochialism, and ameri-centrism at the do-we-invite-koreans-or-not-controvery, but not enough so that we'll actually see many of them prevalently, and oh, lets not invite any of the BEST players, we don't actually want anyone who isn't north american to WIN this thing do we? (well, at least we don't want anyone who we can't RELATE to to win this thing, and apparently koreans are hard to "relate to".. [no, this is not an extreme caricaturization either: http://www.sixjaxgaming.com/wp/scii/2011/03/08/20-questions-with-nasls-xeris/］ ) "
The ONLY argument and point of discussion here is latency prior to the LAN portion.
You want a league thats going to be awesome, you invite awesome players. You don't invite local players only so local observers can pat each other on the back for winning. How lame is that?
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This thread reminds me of lpga's english policy lol.
Hey, exclude koreans if you want. Not inviting top players to play, share and experience together is just gonna create more gaps. You don't want high prestigious internationl compettion at your region? Be my guest. Let's see how much level of play grows without it lol.
Shit, I come from another gaming community (fighting) where japanese players totally dominated for most of the decade. not only was evo (equivalent of nasl) always open for internationals. Community was willing to raise funds to have j players fly over and freebie our money for local events whenever possible too. We spreaded our ass and liked it when we got raped hard. You lack that kind of dedication let's see what happens to sc2. I for one wouldn't mind another decade of BW domination after NA competitive scene softens.
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On March 16 2011 07:28 L3g3nd_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 07:17 DiaBoLuS wrote:
The best thing would be
GSL - koreans only
EUSL - europeans only
NASL - north american only
with almost same prize money and then inviting the top 10 of each tour to a huge tournament.
but thats not possible i guess :/ I think this would further seperate the 3 areas of sc2, we already have no cross region play, it would force players to only play against local people, which i think its terrible for sc2. i envision sc2 as a global sport, not a sport in korea, na and euro. if that makes sense
I agree. SC2 should have a global community, not separate ones.
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If you limit the koreans you might as well limit the europeans, but this probably won't be the case for obvious reasons.
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Depends what NASL is aiming for. If you truly want to help esports more forward, you invite the best players and have them duke it out. If you want to go the the CGS/"Sports Entertinament" route, then sure, invite personalities, but don't bullshit about it being the future of esports. The personality/attitude of players toward the community has NOTHING to do with something being a sport in any way shape or form.
Further, Western players aren't going to catch up with the Koreans by dodging them all the time. It's no coincidence than Jinro and Huk are the two best foreigners right now, and the rest aren't even close.
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I think NASL should just have stated originally that players would be restricted to the EU and NA locations and that would have prevented some of the confusion and flak. That being said, since they do want to invite Korean players it would be stupid to deny them that opportunity since it would weaken the credibility of the competition.
I do agree that about 5 or so invites would be a legitimate amount, but if the reasons going against at are as stupid as 'they don't care about foreigners' or 'they're clearly not putting in any effort' - well that's downright idiotic. The same could be (wrongly) said of foreigners going to GSL and not being able to speak Korean..
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EPT
