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On March 16 2011 07:32 garlicface wrote:
This whole situation reminds me of hockey. The KHL is to the NHL as the NASL is to the GSL, where the North American hockey players are the Korean SC2 players.
AHAHHAHAHAHAH i posted that people would have this exact reaction in the NASL QA thread and Xeris poo pooed it. That was before IEM so it even more obvious now.
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On March 16 2011 07:27 polarity wrote:
And here I thought NASL was meant to grow esports in the west. Somehow I don't see how it will be much different than GSL if 45 koreans and 5 foreigners will be competing.
I don't think anyone arguing for the inclusion of more Koreans actually expects the numbers to come out 45 KR : 5 others. I think most people just don't like the notion of arbitrarily capping it at some low number like 5.
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On March 16 2011 07:33 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 07:30 apalemorning wrote:
its a north american star league. do we let cfl football teams play in the NFL?
This is the most fucked up logic ever. Do we ban Canadians from playing in the NFL? Yeesh, some people these days. Formulating a proper argument is okay, but this kind of blantant stupidiy is what causes all these problems in the first place.
i wasn't actually being serious. im pretty much for koreans being in the NASL. i come from a broodwar background and playing koreans during koreatime on iccup was the best practice. if anything, koreans in nasl will help people from NA/EU suck less.
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On March 16 2011 07:30 apalemorning wrote:
its a north american star league. do we let cfl football teams play in the NFL?
that's because there actually is a cfl ( i guess?)
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Without very top Korean progamer being invited to play, NASL will feel like minor league. If NASL wants to be recognized as reputable tournament, NASL needs to have players playing against world's best.
Sure, 'Koreans Own white dudes' but! If we are to have non- Koreans to be best, we need to have non-Koreans playing against best Koreans go be able to beat them.
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On March 16 2011 07 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 07:27 polarity wrote:
And here I thought NASL was meant to grow esports in the west. Somehow I don't see how it will be much different than GSL if 45 koreans and 5 foreigners will be competing. And here I thought NASL was supposed to be a huge competition, not a consolation prize because people think that foreigners can't compete with Koreans. the most deserving should get the prize money, not the most deserving BUT the best.
Better name it YAKS. Yet Another Korean Starleague. 'Cause that's all it's gonna be. Nothing wrong with that either, just had my hopes up for something else.
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On March 16 2011 07:26 DystopiaX wrote:
Invite the best. It's a damn competition, I think it's stupid to segregate by race. It's not morally right, and preventing people from playing "because they're polite" is retarded. Sounds like someones scared of the competition.
Hell, koreans don't exclude foreigners from their tournaments, even though some of them have been there for years and speak almost no Korean. the whole "before giant amounts of cash" thrown at them is stupid; why the hell does any progamer do it? Of course they love the game, but there's no way they'd join if the prize money was small. It's a huge investment for them to commit to going to the finals if they make it, and so it's just not feasible to come to smaller paying tournament. Face it, would GSL have been such a draw if they weren't offering over 87k? I don't think so.
I don`t know if you are with me on this Dys, but when i hear people shitting on Korean`s English, and that some of the guys that were in Korea for months or even years cant even utter a single Korean word, it makes me laugh.
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On March 16 2011 07:35 Luvz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 07:34 Mithriel wrote:On March 16 2011 07:30 apalemorning wrote:
its a north american star league. do we let cfl football teams play in the NFL?
No Offense, but if it would be only North American players in the NASL, i doubt a lot of people from outside North America would watch it, let alone actually pay for the stream  i doubt even alot of NA people would pay or watch it x.x
I wouldn't, cause I'd know that the games wouldn't be as awesome as if top caliber players were playing in it. That's part of the draw of something like a GSL, cause you know that these people are leaps and bounds ahead of even other pros.
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On March 16 2011 07:36 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 07:30 apalemorning wrote:
its a north american star league. do we let cfl football teams play in the NFL?
that's because there actually is a cfl ( i guess?)
well that and they are both in North America...
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On March 16 2011 07:35 Luvz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 07:34 Mithriel wrote:On March 16 2011 07:30 apalemorning wrote:
its a north american star league. do we let cfl football teams play in the NFL?
No Offense, but if it would be only North American players in the NASL, i doubt a lot of people from outside North America would watch it, let alone actually pay for the stream i doubt even alot of NA people would pay or watch it x.x, it would just be another "daily tour that u can watch free" only good thing would be that they have SOME production.
I sure as hell would be less than stoked over this if only NA players were invited.
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I find the argument of familiarity a moot point. The ones saying , i prefer watching non koreans because they are part of us and we can relate to them. I don't find this argument convincing at all.
The Eastern European scene barely interacts with TL at all. Yet, we feel familiar with White-ra, Dimaga, Strelok and feel we can cheer behind them 100 percent. Why? Because we are used to them by now. We have seen them play in enough tournaments and interacts with people that we know.
The same will happen to Koreans if we let them interact with us instead of closing the door. MC/MVP/Nestea will just be another White-ra / Sen /BratOK.
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Imo only the best should play in the NASL. Sure its North American Star League but if you want to grow the NA and EU sc2 scene you can't have them compete with the best if you are gonna avoid them from the best, i.e. the Koreans. NO way anyone can keep up with the Koreans. The only reason koreans are so good is because they are dedicated, (I ain't saying others aren't) but Koreans more so. Best of the best please, and please invite the best koreans regardless how many are invited. Plus I believe its NASL because its taking place in NA...not because the requirement is NA..
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On March 16 2011 07 Rokk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 07:27 polarity wrote:
And here I thought NASL was meant to grow esports in the west. Somehow I don't see how it will be much different than GSL if 45 koreans and 5 foreigners will be competing. I don't think anyone arguing for the inclusion of more Koreans actually expects the numbers to come out 45 KR : 5 others. I think most people just don't like the notion of arbitrarily capping it at some low number like 5.
If the logic is: include the best of the best I would be surprised to be seeing 5 foreigners.
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On March 16 2011 07:33 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 07:30 apalemorning wrote:
its a north american star league. do we let cfl football teams play in the NFL?
This is the most fucked up logic ever. Do we ban Canadians from playing in the NFL? Yeesh, some people these days. Formulating a proper argument is okay, but this kind of blantant stupidiy is what causes all these problems in the first place.
no, but at least the nfl makes the players move to the states and actually participate in the scene first 
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this has an easy answer, and only NASL can provide it. do you want to be the best league in the world? or stick to your league's name and be the best of NORTH AMERICA.?
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Big tournaments mean big talent, and there are a lot of very talented Korean players who should be given a fair shake and allowed to compete. Could they dominate all the other players? Possibly.
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On March 16 2011 07:37 dtz wrote:
I find the argument of familiarity a moot point. The ones saying , i prefer watching non koreans because they are part of us and we can relate to them. I don't find this argument convincing at all.
The Eastern European scene barely interacts with TL at all. Yet, we feel familiar with White-ra, Dimaga, Strelok and feel we can cheer behind them 100 percent. Why? Because we are used to them by now. We have seen them play in enough tournaments and interacts with people that we know.
The same will happen to Koreans if we let them interact with us instead of closing the door. MC/MVP/Nestea will just be another White-ra / Sen /BratOK.
I tend to agree. Its quite racist if you look at it broadly.
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On March 16 2011 07:32 Kazang wrote:
My personal feeling is that anyone outside of NA shouldn't be invited. Not that non NA residents can't compete at all, but they should have to qualify.
It's a NA tournament, it should prioritise players in the NA. The issue of latency shouldn't be ignored and players playing from Korea or even Europe will negatively effect the quality of the games more than not having the "best" players.
The GSL is there as a Global league, and as such have to make an effort to include "foreigners" as it's not much of a Global league without them.
Conversely I don't expect to see Koreans or non NA residents in a North American League.
The same way I don't expect to see Milan playing in the UK Premiership or Switzerland in the 6 Nations.
There are other leagues and tournaments that cater for the whole world, such as the TSL and GSL. Just as in other sports the localised tournaments aren't any less important than the global ones.
Indeed I prefer watching the 6 Nations over the Rugby World Cup in most cases.
An online version of GSL with mostly the same players but a different format and all the problems that online play brings would be a pretty shitty tournament in my eyes.
A completely different, and NA based tournament would be far more entertaining than a half-assed online imitation of the GSL.
Your analogy is terrible though. The premiership has mostly foreign players in, and it's the biggest league in the world because of it.
The NASL should not prioritize a load of unworthy NA players to get in just because they are known. It undermines the competition.
On March 16 2011 07:36 polarity wrote:
Better name it YAKS. Yet Another Korean Starleague. 'Cause that's all it's gonna be. Nothing wrong with that either, just had my hopes up for something else.
When it said the best players how did anything else come into your mind. There's plenty of tournaments with ONLY NA or EU players in if you don't care about the quality of game.
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On March 16 2011 07:32 coolcor wrote:
Arn't the Koreans going to have to play in the middle of the night with lag when they might have a gsl game the next day they should be sleeping for?
I'd be nice if this decision could be made after seeing if Korea loses any games in TSL and the Gom world championship. I think 5 or 10 would be best for now but it'll be tricky how they handle it if after 2 seasons 32 koreans enter from the qualifier leaving few foreigners.
Yes they would, which is why you're not going to see every Korean in the GSL apply, at least not this season. It's still a large commitment when they have the GSL to worry about.
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The hard ban is silly, but at the same time there has to be some sort of cap, or they'll occupy more than half the player pool (as has already been sad numerous times in the thread!). EU and NA players having the incentive to beat mid and top level Koreans would only make the tournament more interesting, contrary to what Pokebunny felt, and add some spice/potentail GSL competition if a player like KiWiKaKi or IdrA took down a July / Bomber.
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EPT
