|
On March 16 2011 08:52 TheBJ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 08:50 DiaBoLuS wrote:On March 16 2011 08:48 Tachion wrote:On March 16 2011 08:42 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:40 teamsolid wrote:On March 16 2011 08:31 Rokk wrote:On March 16 2011 08:28 hmunkey wrote:On March 16 2011 08:27 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:26 Clare wrote:On March 16 2011 08:24 Pokebunny wrote:
I don't understand how you can say I'm being racist when every point I've made has simply been due to practicality and entertainment rather than race. That's subjective though. Sure, you might not feel connected to the Koreans, but some people might. I completely agree that my opinion is subjective, however I don't think it's fair to say my points are based entirely on the race of the player. I'm merely expressing what I would like to see as a spectator. No, you're expressing what you'd like to see as a potential competitor. If it's for NA only, you have a chance of getting it. If it's for Koreans you have no chance of ever competing in the NASL. Don't lie. I don't agree with Pokebunny at all, but at least refute his arguments instead of making up bullshit when he has stated the opposite multiple times. It doesn't matter what he states. Even if he's not going to make it in this season, if Koreans start getting invited, the chances of him ever competing in the future (in case his skill rises) will still be hurt. Subconsciously, I'm sure he knows this and all this other reasoning is just to justify these gut feelings. Not at all. I much preferred watching MLG last year than GSL. You've stated about 10 times in this thread so far that you like NA Starcraft more than KR, but you have not once yet explained why. Would you mind indulging your critics with an actual reason for why you find NA Starcraft matches more entertaining? On that point i have to agree with pokebunny. The MLG was much more exiting to watch than the gsl, simply because the tournament structure was great. Yes especially the one that idra one , it was so unexciting that i dont even remember which one it was , seriously. Rekrul said it best having a poor understanding for real competition doesnt isnt a valid opinion.
i did mean the one that jinro won, it was a great tournament to watch.
|
On March 16 2011 08:48 PHedemark wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 08:32 infinity2k9 wrote:On March 16 2011 08:30 PHedemark wrote:
What few people in this thread actually grasp, is that the NASL is a typical North American project. They want the best players in the world, and possibly also the biggest names in the world. But not on the expense of their North American superstars.
Uhh if you limit to 'North American' superstars then theres no point in this whole thing. I think most people on here wouldn't pay for it at all, and the North Americans themselves would never even have to further themselves or play any better. How can you even think Grubby is somehow more marketable to a wider audience? He's a typical nerd. I don't know what to say if you can't see how or why Grubby is easier to market than 95% of the other players who have applied for the NASL. The guy is a two time "Olympic Champion", has won countless of other championships, is a head star for several computer peripheral companies, is well spoken, intelligent and even featured in a documentary with Kasparov. It's not so much about the looks (oh well, it's also that), but more about how you market yourself and what you do. And in all that, Grubby is a superstar. He handles himself that way. I don't think you can find a player that's more available to his fans than he is.
Sorry actually i misread who we were talking about. He is a big name yes and he should be in if his skills are around the top players, which i expect they would be. For some reason i thought you meant another player beginning with G, my apologizes.
However i still disagree with a lot of your argument, as theres no evidence to suggest SC2 is going to be marketable to anyone except SC2 players. Even then i don't see why non-SC2 players will have some kind of bias against any foreigners, if you get into watching the game at all you must be interested in the game. The North American and European players are generally not charismatic anyway, and besides even when you do actually see the players they are inside a booth sitting at a computer. I don't see where the characterization of the players is even supposed to be showcased, there's probably going to be interviews but most foreigners just say the usual stuff as Koreans.
|
So we can't get much foreigners to Code S BUT if we organize our own event , we can throw a bunch of foreigners to them at first rounds or whatever and then have a GSL #2 after RO16.
I don't know , I'm not a fan of inviting top koreans idea. I'M pretty sure some top foreigners are excited for a chance to play them but it also hurts to see , without NASL lots of damn good US/EU players will be stuck with weekly 50 dollar tournaments ( ok , and MLG ). Without prize money , they have to stream all day and coach for living which probably hurts their training too.
|
It's a tough choice. Obviously if there wasn't a limit and they invited the true best players, it would be majority Koreans. But if the NASL wants to succeed in popularizing e-sports in NA then they do need the very best players.
I don't think a huge amount of Koreans will apply. Right now it's basically just Startale right? That's not bad.
I think what will end up happening is you'll have 10-15 Koreans , maybe even less. But that seems about right.
|
Korea (South)17174 Posts
to sit around saying 'inviting the best koreans won't be fun because the games will all be one sided blah blah' is really retarded
first of all, thats not true, foreigners do have a chance. with such money on the line it should be the best in the world and if some foreign players don't like that it's because of a combination of greed+not being good enough
the top koreans will add an insane amount of hype to the tournament, even if the top 8 ends up being 1 foreigner and all koreans. and the 'one sided game' bs?
what makes exciting tournaments is PLAYER HYPE, even more so than quality of games. we could see a 5 hour long 3-2 back and forth series between incontrol and pokebunny with 5k minerals in the bank each warring it out with armies of forces when they get a chance to box macro them out, sure, maybe some people like that. but the average fan would rather see the best player doing something cool that wins a quick game than that.
remember sc1 in korea. iloveoov, nada, boxer etc all went on insane streaks where every win was incredibly easy and the fans LOVED it. and some of the most exciting games in history were boxer proxy raxing so don't give me b.s. about 'we want good games' in any tournament you will have rape games, and you will have close games. obviously the end game would be for foreigners to get better and be able to compete with the koreans then we can have some real hype.
it's good that NASL creates incentive for players to raise their level by offering such big prizes, but to restrict the best players from playing saying 'stay in ur country be happy u have gsl' so that some white boy can win is the dumbest fucking thing i have ever heard
|
On March 16 2011 08:57 Tiax;mous wrote:
So we can't get much foreigners to Code S BUT if we organize our own event , we can throw a bunch of foreigners to them at first rounds or whatever and then have a GSL #2 after RO16.
I don't know , I'm not a fan of inviting top koreans idea. I'M pretty sure some top foreigners are excited for a chance to play them but it also hurts to see , without NASL lots of damn good US/EU players will be stuck with weekly 50 dollar tournaments ( ok , and MLG ). Without prize money , they have to stream all day and coach for living which probably hurts their training too.
yes because they dont get salaries lol
|
On March 16 2011 08:58 Rekrul wrote:
to sit around saying 'inviting the best koreans won't be fun because the games will all be one sided blah blah' is really retarded
first of all, thats not true, foreigners do have a chance. with such money on the line it should be the best in the world and if some foreign players don't like that it's because of a combination of greed+not being good enough
the top koreans will add an insane amount of hype to the tournament, even if the top 8 ends up being 1 foreigner and all koreans. and the 'one sided game' bs?
what makes exciting tournaments is PLAYER HYPE, even more so than quality of games. we could see a 5 hour long 3-2 back and forth series between incontrol and pokebunny with 5k minerals in the bank each warring it out with armies of forces when they get a chance to box macro them out, sure, maybe some people like that. but the average fan would rather see the best player doing something cool that wins a quick game than that.
remember sc1 in korea. iloveoov, nada, boxer etc all went on insane streaks where every win was incredibly easy and the fans LOVED it. and some of the most exciting games in history were boxer proxy raxing so don't give me b.s. about 'we want good games' in any tournament you will have rape games, and you will have close games. obviously the end game would be for foreigners to get better and be able to compete with the koreans then we can have some real hype.
it's good that NASL creates incentive for players to raise their level by offering such big prizes, but to restrict the best players from playing saying 'stay in ur country be happy u have gsl' so that some white boy can win is the dumbest fucking thing i have ever heard
amen, and lol@incontrol vs pokebunny
|
On March 16 2011 08:33 Kimaker wrote:
While I eventually want to see Koreans over here competing, and don't think anyone should be barred based on region, I DO think it would be good to get the Western Scene properly established before we have them compete with us. Otherwise foreign players will stagnate as they don't even get to compete in their own big regional league.
Give the NASL 3-4 seasons, and some Korean style practice houses, and you'll see foreign level match the Korean level. Before that, if you just have Koreans here, it may slow that process.
idk, might be wrong, but Korea is established in E-sports, we're really not yet. I'd like to see us at least get grounded before we tried to take that particular pillar on.
Don't limit the number of Koreans, they didn't do that to us, but no need to advertise it until we're ready. I just want E-sports to be properly established here in the West before we have (essentially) cross league play.
I dream of a NASL vs GSL league playoff...EPIC.
I like this idea more than anything I've seen. Its been my contention that the Koreans are better at SC because their culture allows them to be better. They have a deep rooted e-sports community in place that allows 12 hour a day 7 day a week practice in houses with 10 other top players. NA simply cannot match that level of preparation.
Nobody here can prove 100% that Koreans are simply more skilled at starcraft than foreigners. Jinro went over and is now mixed in with the best players in Korea after getting his training regiment/partners lined up and organized.
Let NASL be the tournament that pushes esports forward in America/EU. Let it foster our growing scene so we can have team houses and sc players earning salaries. THEN let the foreigners and koreans go head to head, when they're on even footing - not watch Koreans smash some half-hearted guys who play SC as a hobby - not a job.
Oh and yes, NASL vs GSL would be epic. :D
|
On March 16 2011 08:57 Tiax;mous wrote:
So we can't get much foreigners to Code S BUT if we organize our own event , we can throw a bunch of foreigners to them at first rounds or whatever and then have a GSL #2 after RO16.
I don't know , I'm not a fan of inviting top koreans idea. I'M pretty sure some top foreigners are excited for a chance to play them but it also hurts to see , without NASL lots of damn good US/EU players will be stuck with weekly 50 dollar tournaments ( ok , and MLG ). Without prize money , they have to stream all day and coach for living which probably hurts their training too.
your "weekly 50 dollar tournaments" are prett much dayly 100€ tournaments + 2-3 monthly ~1k tours.
+ you underestimate the power of all top foreigners vs some koreans.
|
On March 16 2011 08:52 dtz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 08:51 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:48 Tachion wrote:On March 16 2011 08:42 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:40 teamsolid wrote:On March 16 2011 08:31 Rokk wrote:On March 16 2011 08:28 hmunkey wrote:On March 16 2011 08:27 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:26 Clare wrote:On March 16 2011 08:24 Pokebunny wrote:
I don't understand how you can say I'm being racist when every point I've made has simply been due to practicality and entertainment rather than race. That's subjective though. Sure, you might not feel connected to the Koreans, but some people might. I completely agree that my opinion is subjective, however I don't think it's fair to say my points are based entirely on the race of the player. I'm merely expressing what I would like to see as a spectator. No, you're expressing what you'd like to see as a potential competitor. If it's for NA only, you have a chance of getting it. If it's for Koreans you have no chance of ever competing in the NASL. Don't lie. I don't agree with Pokebunny at all, but at least refute his arguments instead of making up bullshit when he has stated the opposite multiple times. It doesn't matter what he states. Even if he's not going to make it in this season, if Koreans start getting invited, the chances of him ever competing in the future (in case his skill rises) will still be hurt. Subconsciously, I'm sure he knows this and all this other reasoning is just to justify these gut feelings. Not at all. I much preferred watching MLG last year than GSL. You've stated about 10 times in this thread so far that you like NA Starcraft more than KR, but you have not once yet explained why. Would you mind indulging your critics with an actual reason for why you find NA Starcraft matches more entertaining? I feel more interested in the players. They're more familiar and I enjoy watching them grow and compete against eachother. They're people I have opinions on other than their gameplay. On that note, what is your opinion about European players, especially eastern european ones like White-Ra and Dimaga
Kinda on the fence. They deserve the chance to compete but I'm not particularly interested in them.
|
On March 16 2011 08:57 infinity2k9 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 08:48 PHedemark wrote:On March 16 2011 08:32 infinity2k9 wrote:On March 16 2011 08:30 PHedemark wrote:
What few people in this thread actually grasp, is that the NASL is a typical North American project. They want the best players in the world, and possibly also the biggest names in the world. But not on the expense of their North American superstars.
Uhh if you limit to 'North American' superstars then theres no point in this whole thing. I think most people on here wouldn't pay for it at all, and the North Americans themselves would never even have to further themselves or play any better. How can you even think Grubby is somehow more marketable to a wider audience? He's a typical nerd. I don't know what to say if you can't see how or why Grubby is easier to market than 95% of the other players who have applied for the NASL. The guy is a two time "Olympic Champion", has won countless of other championships, is a head star for several computer peripheral companies, is well spoken, intelligent and even featured in a documentary with Kasparov. It's not so much about the looks (oh well, it's also that), but more about how you market yourself and what you do. And in all that, Grubby is a superstar. He handles himself that way. I don't think you can find a player that's more available to his fans than he is. Sorry actually i misread who we were talking about. He is a big name yes and he should be in if his skills are around the top players, which i expect they would be. For some reason i thought you meant another player beginning with G, my apologizes. However i still disagree with a lot of your argument, as theres no evidence to suggest SC2 is going to be marketable to anyone except SC2 players. Even then i don't see why non-SC2 players will have some kind of bias against any foreigners, if you get into watching the game at all you must be interested in the game. The North American and European players are generally not charismatic anyway, and besides even when you do actually see the players they are inside a booth sitting at a computer. I don't see where the characterization of the players is even supposed to be showcased, there's probably going to be interviews but most foreigners just say the usual stuff as Koreans.
I was watching SC2 Tournaments months before I even had the game
|
On March 16 2011 08:58 Rekrul wrote:
to sit around saying 'inviting the best koreans won't be fun because the games will all be one sided blah blah' is really retarded
first of all, thats not true, foreigners do have a chance. with such money on the line it should be the best in the world and if some foreign players don't like that it's because of a combination of greed+not being good enough
the top koreans will add an insane amount of hype to the tournament, even if the top 8 ends up being 1 foreigner and all koreans. and the 'one sided game' bs?
what makes exciting tournaments is PLAYER HYPE, even more so than quality of games. we could see a 5 hour long 3-2 back and forth series between incontrol and pokebunny with 5k minerals in the bank each warring it out with armies of forces when they get a chance to box macro them out, sure, maybe some people like that. but the average fan would rather see the best player doing something cool that wins a quick game than that.
remember sc1 in korea. iloveoov, nada, boxer etc all went on insane streaks where every win was incredibly easy and the fans LOVED it. and some of the most exciting games in history were boxer proxy raxing so don't give me b.s. about 'we want good games' in any tournament you will have rape games, and you will have close games. obviously the end game would be for foreigners to get better and be able to compete with the koreans then we can have some real hype.
it's good that NASL creates incentive for players to raise their level by offering such big prizes, but to restrict the best players from playing saying 'stay in ur country be happy u have gsl' so that some white boy can win is the dumbest fucking thing i have ever heard
Couldnt have said it better myself , how on earth do people want e-sports to grow if they want to kill the competition , so their friends can have a shot at some extra bucks...
|
On March 16 2011 08:54 Chicane wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 08:48 Tachion wrote:On March 16 2011 08:42 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:40 teamsolid wrote:On March 16 2011 08:31 Rokk wrote:On March 16 2011 08:28 hmunkey wrote:On March 16 2011 08:27 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:26 Clare wrote:On March 16 2011 08:24 Pokebunny wrote:
I don't understand how you can say I'm being racist when every point I've made has simply been due to practicality and entertainment rather than race. That's subjective though. Sure, you might not feel connected to the Koreans, but some people might. I completely agree that my opinion is subjective, however I don't think it's fair to say my points are based entirely on the race of the player. I'm merely expressing what I would like to see as a spectator. No, you're expressing what you'd like to see as a potential competitor. If it's for NA only, you have a chance of getting it. If it's for Koreans you have no chance of ever competing in the NASL. Don't lie. I don't agree with Pokebunny at all, but at least refute his arguments instead of making up bullshit when he has stated the opposite multiple times. It doesn't matter what he states. Even if he's not going to make it in this season, if Koreans start getting invited, the chances of him ever competing in the future (in case his skill rises) will still be hurt. Subconsciously, I'm sure he knows this and all this other reasoning is just to justify these gut feelings. Not at all. I much preferred watching MLG last year than GSL. You've stated about 10 times in this thread so far that you like NA Starcraft more than KR, but you have not once yet explained why. Would you mind indulging your critics with an actual reason for why you find NA Starcraft matches more entertaining? I don't see how that is such a strange concept. He clearly enjoys watching players who he is more familiar with and who's personalities he knows a bit more. That is after all one of the things NASL is banking on as an important feature they can bring... yet you are so surprised that someone would like that? But once again, I don't agree with a lot of what he is saying... and I will simply copy paste what I said instead of retyping it. "What I don't agree with however is how he tries to make claims such as they aren't good in the league because they don't show enough personality when there are plenty of NA players who have very weak personalities that we never really get to see... yet no one is saying they shouldn't participate." Basically, some of the Korean players have shown more personalities than some NA players--I won't bother mentioning names--even if we have seen about equal amounts of them. I'm not sure why they aren't categorized with the Koreans... or more importantly why Koreans are categorized as a whole.
Completely agree with this post. Nothing wrong with someone preferring NA players, but saying that Koreans will be bad because of their personality (or lack of it) is just wrong.
Just wait until you see pics of July partying in some LA club, making it rain with the money he just won.
|
On March 16 2011 09:00 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 08:52 dtz wrote:On March 16 2011 08:51 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:48 Tachion wrote:On March 16 2011 08:42 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:40 teamsolid wrote:On March 16 2011 08:31 Rokk wrote:On March 16 2011 08:28 hmunkey wrote:On March 16 2011 08:27 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:26 Clare wrote:
[quote]
That's subjective though. Sure, you might not feel connected to the Koreans, but some people might. I completely agree that my opinion is subjective, however I don't think it's fair to say my points are based entirely on the race of the player. I'm merely expressing what I would like to see as a spectator. No, you're expressing what you'd like to see as a potential competitor. If it's for NA only, you have a chance of getting it. If it's for Koreans you have no chance of ever competing in the NASL. Don't lie. I don't agree with Pokebunny at all, but at least refute his arguments instead of making up bullshit when he has stated the opposite multiple times. It doesn't matter what he states. Even if he's not going to make it in this season, if Koreans start getting invited, the chances of him ever competing in the future (in case his skill rises) will still be hurt. Subconsciously, I'm sure he knows this and all this other reasoning is just to justify these gut feelings. Not at all. I much preferred watching MLG last year than GSL. You've stated about 10 times in this thread so far that you like NA Starcraft more than KR, but you have not once yet explained why. Would you mind indulging your critics with an actual reason for why you find NA Starcraft matches more entertaining? I feel more interested in the players. They're more familiar and I enjoy watching them grow and compete against eachother. They're people I have opinions on other than their gameplay. On that note, what is your opinion about European players, especially eastern european ones like White-Ra and Dimaga Kinda on the fence. They deserve the chance to compete but I'm not particularly interested in them.
living in the dream that only NA exists to be a noticable player?
|
On March 16 2011 06:56 new002 wrote:
Invitational was stupid to begin with anyway.
Seriously, the prize pool is large enough to warrant making the Koreans qualify like everyone else. Simple as that. I believe a commitment is necessary for a successful league.
|
On March 16 2011 09:00 Pokebunny wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 08:52 dtz wrote:On March 16 2011 08:51 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:48 Tachion wrote:On March 16 2011 08:42 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:40 teamsolid wrote:On March 16 2011 08:31 Rokk wrote:On March 16 2011 08:28 hmunkey wrote:On March 16 2011 08:27 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:26 Clare wrote:
[quote]
That's subjective though. Sure, you might not feel connected to the Koreans, but some people might. I completely agree that my opinion is subjective, however I don't think it's fair to say my points are based entirely on the race of the player. I'm merely expressing what I would like to see as a spectator. No, you're expressing what you'd like to see as a potential competitor. If it's for NA only, you have a chance of getting it. If it's for Koreans you have no chance of ever competing in the NASL. Don't lie. I don't agree with Pokebunny at all, but at least refute his arguments instead of making up bullshit when he has stated the opposite multiple times. It doesn't matter what he states. Even if he's not going to make it in this season, if Koreans start getting invited, the chances of him ever competing in the future (in case his skill rises) will still be hurt. Subconsciously, I'm sure he knows this and all this other reasoning is just to justify these gut feelings. Not at all. I much preferred watching MLG last year than GSL. You've stated about 10 times in this thread so far that you like NA Starcraft more than KR, but you have not once yet explained why. Would you mind indulging your critics with an actual reason for why you find NA Starcraft matches more entertaining? I feel more interested in the players. They're more familiar and I enjoy watching them grow and compete against eachother. They're people I have opinions on other than their gameplay. On that note, what is your opinion about European players, especially eastern european ones like White-Ra and Dimaga Kinda on the fence. They deserve the chance to compete but I'm not particularly interested in them.
Wait, what!? No europeans?You want to see the Special Olympics of gaming? What's the slogan of the NASL? The main thing is not to win but to participate?
|
On March 16 2011 06:45 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Its retarded. Why do you think any of the non-koreans that went to GSL, went to GSL for? For the same fucking reason Koreans want to play NASL. Show nested quote +Note that this poll assumes that the skill level of top Code A Koreans is about the same as the skill of the top foreigners, which we can assume to be true from IEM. While its not that untrue, how can we assume that from IEM when it was won by 3 players who all failed round 1 of Code A? I mean, that wouldnt really qualify as top code A level to me evidence wise.
Hey jinro!!!! Love you man!!!!
/fanboi mode off
I think that you've made Motmobs point, if 3 players who didn't even make it through the first round of code A can wipe the floor with the rest of the world, why would anyone watch MC, MVP and Nestea and July stomp 9 other guys in their group 2-0 then stomp whomever they get in the play offs until its just Koreans, yourself and possibly Idra and HuK....... we can watch GSL for that.
I'd love to see some Koreans play in NASL, maybe even one or two players like MVP/MC but they only fly out of their own timezone when there is big bucks on the line, they don't seem to take an active interest in our scene otherwise, however on the flipside we pay major attention to their scene.
Is not the reason why the foreigners go to GSL that its where the best players are? I'm sure the money is a draw, but people don't go there for the money.... only yourself and Idra have really made any over there yet.... they go for the competition. Would the Koreans come to play NASL if it were $1000 for first instead of $100,000??? Probably not. Would the foreigners play in NASL for $1000? Probably quite a few, atleast those who live in the US would.
I know you go to Korea dreaming of riches and bitches, but the reality is that everyone who goes there knows there is a damn big chance they won't make much money, infact for foreigners most can make more money back home with all the tourneys and team leagues going on. They go to korea because thats where the best players are, where the best practice partners are, where the team houses are.
Look at it this way, the GSL has the best koreans in the world plus the very very best 2-3 foreigners. The NASL can have the best non-koreans in the world plus the very very best 2-3 Koreans. I just don't want to see 30 koreans come and blow away the foreigners in a western tourney set up to help globalise SC2 as an esport.
Anyone from europe knows how people constantly argue in football about "too many foreigners ruining the game" and shit, I remember the first time ever in the history of English professional football a team was fielded that was 11 foreign players, there was an uproar from most people, not one english guy was good enough????? People got very uppity because while its great to see SOME of the best players in the world playing in your country's league, you wouldn't want to have EVERY single one of the best foreign players playing in your league and having hardly anyone from your OWN country.
Lets face it, for the casual viewer, personalities like incontrol and Idra are just more relatable than someone who can barely speak a word of English. I am pretty hardcore about this game, I play and watch it every day, but I never listen to the interviews of korean player because they are flat out boring. The ones who do have a personality are awesome, but they are the exception and not the rule...... in western culture we seem to produce gamers who are also comedians, in our community its all personality and only a few people with none... hell whitera can barely string three words together in english and he's one of the funniest players I've seen.
tl;dr If NASL tries to be GSL and has tonnes of koreans then we will just have another GSL, what is the point in that? We are not korean, we don't do things the way they do, we want showmanship and personality, bring me some korean pro-gamers who will entertain me and I'll happily change my tune.
If we want esports to become mainstream in the west its need to be like it was with pro wrestling, it crept in by being edgy, funny, violent and child friendly all at the same time. Nearly all of my friends are now in their late 20's and early 30's and still hooked on WWE, myself too, but they all call me lame for watching esports........ the only way to shift that tide is to show that esports are entertaining, that its not just nerds in glasses clicking, there is personality and drama too.... we see all that, we have to find a way to show it to everyone else.
|
On March 16 2011 08:58 Rekrul wrote:
to sit around saying 'inviting the best koreans won't be fun because the games will all be one sided blah blah' is really retarded
first of all, thats not true, foreigners do have a chance. with such money on the line it should be the best in the world and if some foreign players don't like that it's because of a combination of greed+not being good enough
the top koreans will add an insane amount of hype to the tournament, even if the top 8 ends up being 1 foreigner and all koreans. and the 'one sided game' bs?
what makes exciting tournaments is PLAYER HYPE, even more so than quality of games. we could see a 5 hour long 3-2 back and forth series between incontrol and pokebunny with 5k minerals in the bank each warring it out with armies of forces when they get a chance to box macro them out, sure, maybe some people like that. but the average fan would rather see the best player doing something cool that wins a quick game than that.
remember sc1 in korea. iloveoov, nada, boxer etc all went on insane streaks where every win was incredibly easy and the fans LOVED it. and some of the most exciting games in history were boxer proxy raxing so don't give me b.s. about 'we want good games' in any tournament you will have rape games, and you will have close games. obviously the end game would be for foreigners to get better and be able to compete with the koreans then we can have some real hype.
it's good that NASL creates incentive for players to raise their level by offering such big prizes, but to restrict the best players from playing saying 'stay in ur country be happy u have gsl' so that some white boy can win is the dumbest fucking thing i have ever heard
At the same time a lot of the hype will come from having those awesome players playing vs. the best NA and EU have to offer. 40 Koreans isn't going to make for a more exciting tournament even if they are the best players. I really think something like 15 Koreans is the way to go.
|
On March 16 2011 09:03 legaton wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2011 09:00 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:52 dtz wrote:On March 16 2011 08:51 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:48 Tachion wrote:On March 16 2011 08:42 Pokebunny wrote:On March 16 2011 08:40 teamsolid wrote:On March 16 2011 08:31 Rokk wrote:On March 16 2011 08:28 hmunkey wrote:On March 16 2011 08:27 Pokebunny wrote:
[quote]
I completely agree that my opinion is subjective, however I don't think it's fair to say my points are based entirely on the race of the player. I'm merely expressing what I would like to see as a spectator. No, you're expressing what you'd like to see as a potential competitor. If it's for NA only, you have a chance of getting it. If it's for Koreans you have no chance of ever competing in the NASL. Don't lie. I don't agree with Pokebunny at all, but at least refute his arguments instead of making up bullshit when he has stated the opposite multiple times. It doesn't matter what he states. Even if he's not going to make it in this season, if Koreans start getting invited, the chances of him ever competing in the future (in case his skill rises) will still be hurt. Subconsciously, I'm sure he knows this and all this other reasoning is just to justify these gut feelings. Not at all. I much preferred watching MLG last year than GSL. You've stated about 10 times in this thread so far that you like NA Starcraft more than KR, but you have not once yet explained why. Would you mind indulging your critics with an actual reason for why you find NA Starcraft matches more entertaining? I feel more interested in the players. They're more familiar and I enjoy watching them grow and compete against eachother. They're people I have opinions on other than their gameplay. On that note, what is your opinion about European players, especially eastern european ones like White-Ra and Dimaga Kinda on the fence. They deserve the chance to compete but I'm not particularly interested in them. Wait, what!? No europeans?You want to see the Special Olympics of gaming? What's the slogan of the NASL? The main thing is not to win but to participate?
I literally have no idea how you inferred that I want no europeans.
|
Without expressing my own preference I think a 50/50 Korean/foreigner split would appease the most people.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
