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Blah I'm so dissapointed by this...
I'm fine with the amulet change as instant storm HT migh be a little too much but there should be a buff somewhere else to keep them viable... HT are just not really worth investing in if there is amulet..
HT are already useless in PvP and hardly used in PvZ and in PvT they are a flavor choice, some prefer HT some prefer colossi (into eventual HT).
I still guess HT will be used in lategame 3+ base games but rushing HT while skipping colossi is pretty much dead now. They are simply not good enough for that anymore.
Counternerf to ghosts is essentially a irrelevant nerf.. The unit only sees real play in PvT and HT rarely if ever have more then 150 energy.. If they really want to nerf the energy drain they should make it about 75-85 energy drained... Against infestors the nerf is mostly irrelevant as infestors will see less play in PvT probably with the change and snipe is better for killing infestors anyway.
About the infestor, I think the changes are alright. As a damage unit it will be quite fine now against stalker/colossus balls and basically better then hydra in that respect. Roach infestor corruptor will be a sweet unit combo in ZvP which will also enable hive tech much easier allowing for some more broodlord/ultra usage. In ZvZ the infestor also stays fine, it got better against roaches but weaker against muta so muta will be alot more viable in that matchup without becoming the de facto best strat.
Infestors in ZvT are nerfed imo. Their DPS is higher but shorter duration makes them much worse for stopping drops and keeping marines in place, muta's will be a neccesity even more to stop drops and I'm not sure infestors will be worth it then.
I think infestors still need a small buff to survive tank shots a bit longer, the buff that makes most sense is to simply change their armor type to light or biological. That way they survive 2 tank shots and a few more stalker shots but they stay unchanged against marines and in ZvZ..
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On March 13 2011 19:32 Zorgaz wrote:
When i read the patch notes it seems to me that FG has been buffed.
Why are so many people complaining about a nerf?
We don't fungal to deal damage, we fungal to lock units down and delay pushs, it now takes two fungals to do the job one used to be able to do. Opening infestors is already quite risky and hard to pull off, it's now going to be completely unviable which means more mutaling, which means -yawn-.
The nerf to HT means even more collossus and the nerf to infestors means more mutas, how exciting, ignoring all balance considerations what it's done is make the game even more rigid and removes options which imo lowers the fun.
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If i wasn't too lazy i would of copy pasted your picture with terran units and said
"Here we go, now you will survive the storm push easily"
But an EMP push comes early and is dangerous while there really is no such thing as a [early] Storm push; it will be too late and not strong enough.
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Splitting forces is hard for people who never forced themselves to before.
This patch, at long last, will throw back in the paper league every 1a-ing bioball terran and 1a-5 colossus protoss around.
I'm so happy about the FG change and seeing 99% of these noobs (y, noobs!) go down the drain I'd almost celebrate !
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I just wanted to address one thing... I'm not saying anything about the balance changes but...
Toss really need to stop bringing up this argument of: "spreading HT is not an answer to EMP" YES IT IS!!!!
do you see Terran players complaining about its hard to split marines from banelings? I guarantee you its A LOT harder to do with a MUCH MUCH costly consequences if not done correctly. Boo hoo your HT's can't cast storm, they can still make archons and soak up SOME damage.
Marines are just flat out gone and tanks get raped.
enough said. Please dont use the argument of "hard to spread HT" ever again please
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On March 14 2011 12:32 titan55 wrote:
I just wanted to address one thing... I'm not saying anything about the balance changes but...
Toss really need to stop bringing up this argument of: "spreading HT is not an answer to EMP" YES IT IS!!!!
do you see Terran players complaining about its hard to split marines from banelings? I guarantee you its A LOT harder to do with a MUCH MUCH costly consequences if not done correctly. Boo hoo your HT's can't cast storm, they can still make archons and soak up SOME damage.
Marines are just flat out gone and tanks get raped.
enough said. Please dont use the argument of "hard to spread HT" ever again please
yeah, running away and splitting with a unit that has a movespeed of around 4 against a unit that
runs towards you.
now compare that to a unit with a movespeed of like 1.75, that you need to move towards the enemy, because terran bio kites away from you.
And your opposing unit shoots an instant missile, with a casting range bigger than yours, that drains every energy from you and its basically over from that instant.
Makes sense to compare these 2 splits.....................................
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On March 13 2011 23:57 TheButtonmen wrote:
We don't fungal to deal damage,
Maybe now you're going to fungal to deal damage.
Killing half the push is a good way of delaying it, I'd say.
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On March 14 2011 12:32 titan55 wrote:
I just wanted to address one thing... I'm not saying anything about the balance changes but...
Toss really need to stop bringing up this argument of: "spreading HT is not an answer to EMP" YES IT IS!!!!
do you see Terran players complaining about its hard to split marines from banelings? I guarantee you its A LOT harder to do with a MUCH MUCH costly consequences if not done correctly. Boo hoo your HT's can't cast storm, they can still make archons and soak up SOME damage.
Marines are just flat out gone and tanks get raped.
enough said. Please dont use the argument of "hard to spread HT" ever again please
Can marines split from banelings if they don't have stim? Or that they have to wait a certain duration before using stim? Of course you can't directly compare these two abilities (amulet and stim), but the principle is the same.
I think you need to understand all of the races before you whine about another person whining about their race. A circle of whining is not what we need.
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I've already foreseen blizz in incapable of making balance changes - now and in the future - you can keep my master league account, blizz. Gg for me.
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Storm should ignore shield damage or something, or do more damage vs armored to deal with colossus/voidray in PvP. No templar tech = dull matchup. Stargate or Robo. TT
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I actually had an idea that would effect PvP alone: Feedback should do deplete shield.
Like a single shot (unnerfed) EMP. I dont know how broken that would be balance wise though. If they go VR/Collosus tech it could be a nice alternate tech path. If nothing else it would open up the option of going Blink Stalkers => Templar Tech in PvP, with your casters having the role of sniping the shield of other high tech units, rather than being the paper weight they currently are.
In all honesty, the only matchup it would break is PvP, which really, can't get too much worse off in most peoples opinion it seems.
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On March 14 2011 14:14 F00LY wrote:
I actually had an idea that would effect PvP alone: Feedback should do deplete shield.
Like a single shot (unnerfed) EMP. I dont know how broken that would be balance wise though. If they go VR/Collosus tech it could be a nice alternate tech path. If nothing else it would open up the option of going Blink Stalkers => Templar Tech in PvP, with your casters having the role of sniping the shield of other high tech units, rather than being the paper weight they currently are.
In all honesty, the only matchup it would break is PvP, which really, can't get too much worse off in most peoples opinion it seems.
why feedback when you can carpet storm?
that's senseless sorry
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On March 14 2011 14:14 F00LY wrote:
I actually had an idea that would effect PvP alone: Feedback should do deplete shield.
Like a single shot (unnerfed) EMP. I dont know how broken that would be balance wise though. If they go VR/Collosus tech it could be a nice alternate tech path. If nothing else it would open up the option of going Blink Stalkers => Templar Tech in PvP, with your casters having the role of sniping the shield of other high tech units, rather than being the paper weight they currently are.
In all honesty, the only matchup it would break is PvP, which really, can't get too much worse off in most peoples opinion it seems.
This might work if HTs came with, say, council. However, as it stands, most (if not all) protoss prefer to have an extra colo then get the archives, and it would really only be effective vs high tier units and immortals.
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On March 13 2011 12:23 DeltruS wrote:
I just realized... it only takes two fungals to kill an infestor.
This is gonna get messy.
guess what happens when people (re)discover feedback and/or stumble upon it on liquipedia once fungal becomes popular ![[image loading]](http://www.scrapheap-challenge.com/images/smiles/ohnoessmiley.gif) ; 90 energy is easily obtained and feedback only costs 50 energy.
we might have the same discussion about templars warping-in-and-immediately-casting-stuff again soon. okokok it's not the same as with storm damaging 'everything' but still...
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If the problem is insta-storms then shouldn't Bliz just make the Amulet's effect only +20 or +15 starting?
Removing it is like removing a chunk of SC-lore.
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On March 14 2011 14:36 sk` wrote:
If the problem is insta-storms then shouldn't Bliz just make the Amulet's effect only +20 or +15 starting?
Removing it is like removing a chunk of SC-lore.
Then we have to consider that it's not instant Psi Storms they believe to be the problem. Thoughts on what might be?
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Zergs rush infestor now = Terran finding a timing attack right before infestors are out... gg
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Don't worry though the bunkers will be taking longer to build so that's 5 more seconds before infantry is immune to storm!
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On March 13 2011 22:03 Mentymion wrote:Here are some reasons why the Patch 1.3 PTR is completley garbage ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + Show Spoiler +
- It will be the third patch which ignores the Reaper again since Patch 1.1.2. The unit is practically dead cuz of 4 mayor changes such as the Supply Depot Requirement for the Barracks, the Factory Requirement for the Nitro packs Upgrade, the Roach range buff from 3 to 4 and the additionally 5 secs. to build from the Patch 1.1.0 and Blizzard doesn't even care to slightley buff the unit.
- We get another useless build time change for the Bunker. We had a 40 sec. build time at the start of the Beta, 30 sec. during Beta Patch 6 to the end, 35 sec. with the first mayor balance change in Patch 1.1.0 since release and now we will get 40 secs. again which probably won't change anything. Instead of looking on the "Salvage Ability" for bunkers which might be the problem cuz you always get your money back even when your bunker rush fails, Blizzard decides to leave that out and simply increase the build time again.
- Increasing Movement speed from 1.406 to 1.875 for Battlecruisers might be a good change but it's interesting to see that the Battlecruiser get so much attention compared to the Carrier. We had a slight dmg nerf on the Ground weapons during the Patch 1.1.0 and build time decreases for the BC and the Fusion Core during the Beta, fine. Do you actually remember when we had our last Carrier balance change ? Not ? Well the reason is easy. There was none since the start of the Beta. The Carrier is not underpowered but heavily underused and each patch without an effort to change that is a pain in the ass.
- The 3 different Protoss Tech trees will be kinda none existent in the higher level of play if the Khaydarin Amulet and Vortex change really appear in Patch 1.3. As a Protoss player myself I completley agree that Warp-In Storms are to strong but simply removing the upgrade for HT's is so damn silly and Blizzard doesn't even try to redesign those Energy Upgrades but that leads to a another fundamental problem. The whole Templar Tech turns into shit. HT's and DT's were already underused and this change makes it even worse. The Vortex Archon combination is dead. The Mothership has probably lost his best weapon and this unit was also heavily underused. It seems like every P involved Matchup will turn into a War of the Worls with pure Colossi domination and btw. the only thing which had the right to be removed was the Dark Shrine and nothing else.
- Redesigning Fungal Growth instead of Neural Parasite. If you ask a High Level Zerg player about these two abilitys you will always get the same answer. We saw Fungal Growth in the GSL, the ability has potential, it's not like the Spell is totally useless but where the fuck do I see NP in the GSL or high level games? The Spell is probably the worst in the game right now and Blizzard......yeah they buff Fungal Growth -_-
- Ignoring Hydras again and thats really dumb cuz every other change will help out Non-Hydra play. Infestors will take over the DPS role and PvZ turns into Colossi madness anyway so why should we play Hydras anymore ?
- EMP change will have no impact. It rather seems like a joke that EMP finally gets a nerf, after the HT's get nerfed into Oblivion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To summarize.....the patch is complete bullshit!
Balancing the game is not about getting the most units working. Buffing Reaper will not balance the game. Buffer NP will not balance the game. Making Carriers better will not balance the game. Making Hydras better will not balance the game.
Balance patches are about balance. Buffing something has a very good chance of breaking the game, making balance worse. Making balance worse is the opposite of the purpose of a balance patch.
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EPT
