EPTPatch 1.3 PTR Notes (12/3/2011 update) - Page 17
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Satiinifi
Finland192 Posts
| ||
|
Homeless666
Czech Republic50 Posts
On March 13 2011 18:53 By.Fantasy wrote: + Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed. And this is why I never ever ever ever will play SC2 again. Why nerf storms? Storms are suppose to be Imba... Now they nerf it -_-" SC:BW ftw No one cares about you ... SC2 is still developing and there will be two expansions with new units so it will take some time to balance SC2 | ||
|
Buddhist
United States658 Posts
Oh yeah, and they should really add the BW khaydarin research at least. I think recent GSL games have shown that khaydarin isn't too strong. Going pure bio vs. khaydarin HTs all game and losing by a hair doesn't sound balanced to me. | ||
blooblooblahblah
Australia4163 Posts
On March 13 2011 18:19 arb wrote: It doesnt even give them a build time, it makes protoss players cry because they are unable to contemplate building something ahead of time(like in bw for example) its almost as funny as "lol you got a useless 150 gas for 2 minutes" isnt energy 1 per second? so 25 seconds you can storm. build them ahead of time? its not a hard concept, protoss mostly just complaining they cant just instantly warp in HT to save their asses It takes longer than 25 seconds for a storm but whatever, i'm not gonna argue tht. Any protoss tht isn't an idiot isn't complaining tht we can't just instantly warp in HT to save our asses. In fact, a good amount of us, me included don't believe u should be able to warp in HT and instantly storm. However, I believe they way over-nerfing tht HT. The difference between the HT and the Ghost is tht the ghost is an extremely good unit tht with good EMPs can completely change the battle. The ghost is good and a decent investment, however it's not absolutely crucial for success. The HT is one of the two damage dealers we have. With a colossi-less army, say all most of your templars get EMP'd, u get one or two storms off tht do piss-poor damage to marauders tht have constant healing and they completely destroy your gateway army. Whether it's bad game design or whatever, the fact is tht Protoss is about defending your colossi or getting a TON of good storms off becuz the DPS of gateway is so bad compared to MMM and the AoE damage dealers are ridiculously good. It's just impossible to not go Colossi anymore becuz it's too risky to have to rely completely on HT with the risk tht if they get EMP'd, u lose the game. The marauders can just A-move and click T to your base and win. HT will just be tht thing u get extremely late gate where u have so much money tht u may as well get it, but the mid-late game will be basically only Colossi, even more than it is now. There needs to be a balance really. U can't just be able to continuously warp-in unlimited storms to save yourself but have to wait over 35 seconds for one storm on a ridiculously slow and weak HT is not reasonable, since it holds so much importance in the battle for Protoss in the battle. And if u get EMP'd, u get to wait another 40 seconds for new storms while all your army is dead and they're killing your base. Sure, ghosts are a build time but they have an already researched EMP with an energy upgrade. But the main difference is MMM and gateway units. If MMM were as weak as gateway units, then it would be a reasonable argument. But the ghost is just a very good support unit, while HT is the most crucial part of stopping their marauders from absolutely tearing you. For those saying u often have max energy on your ghosts from just waiting around your base, it's completely different for Protoss. If a terran knows a protoss is going HT in the mid game (in patch 1.3), Terran can expand or do wateva it wants becuz they know the Protoss can't attack soon in fear of getting EMP'd. If u wait for over 175+ on all your templars, u're being extremely defensive and tht would be the only way to play HT in the mid--early-late game. Of course, then they would just EMP u twice and it dosen't matter. +15 Energy upgrade is wat i think it pretty decent. You can't just warp-in and storm instantly, but it makes it somewat usable to go HT and be slightly aggressive, or it allows u to aggressively expand as well. I think the Protoss would be fine with it and Terran's wouldn't have to worry about the admittedly scary defence tht is HT. HT was never really tht bad offensively, it was the fact tht it had so much defensive use tht was the problem. I'd also like to point out tht altho storm is extremely good against marines, against marauder compositions, they suck unless u have the billions of storms, and even then it can be close (san vs sc is 1 example). Storm is just so easily avoidable for marauders, and do virtually nothing. But the storm tht they stood in for 1 second, u had to wait 40 seconds for it. | ||
|
GP
United States1056 Posts
On March 13 2011 19:05 Buddhist wrote: Why they are nerfing infestors so hard is beyond me. Are you serious? They buffed FG. :/ | ||
|
Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
Maybe some more focus on preparation and strategy wouldn't be a bad thing for Blizzard to encourage for protoss? Assumption being removal of amulet encourages such type of play, without hopefully changing the high templar's popularity too much. I personally don't see how this change can not impact it heavily, but I don't think you can tell at this moment, so it'll just be wait and see. | ||
|
arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On March 13 2011 19:07 blooblooblahblah wrote: It takes longer than 25 seconds for a storm but whatever, i'm not gonna argue tht. Any protoss tht isn't an idiot isn't complaining tht we can't just instantly warp in HT to save our asses. In fact, a good amount of us, me included don't believe u should be able to warp in HT and instantly storm. However, I believe they way over-nerfing tht HT. The difference between the HT and the Ghost is tht the ghost is an extremely good unit tht with good EMPs can completely change the battle. The ghost is good and a decent investment, however it's not absolutely crucial for success. The HT is one of the two damage dealers we have. With a colossi-less army, say all most of your templars get EMP'd, u get one or two storms off tht do piss-poor damage to marauders tht have constant healing and they completely destroy your gateway army. Whether it's bad game design or whatever, the fact is tht Protoss is about defending your colossi or getting a TON of good storms off becuz the DPS of gateway is so bad compared to MMM and the AoE damage dealers are ridiculously good. It's just impossible to not go Colossi anymore becuz it's too risky to have to rely completely on HT with the risk tht if they get EMP'd, u lose the game. The marauders can just A-move and click T to your base and win. HT will just be tht thing u get extremely late gate where u have so much money tht u may as well get it, but the mid-late game will be basically only Colossi, even more than it is now. There needs to be a balance really. U can't just be able to continuously warp-in unlimited storms to save yourself but have to wait over 35 seconds for one storm on a ridiculously slow and weak HT is not reasonable, since it holds so much importance in the battle for Protoss in the battle. And if u get EMP'd, u get to wait another 40 seconds for new storms while all your army is dead and they're killing your base. Sure, ghosts are a build time but they have an already researched EMP with an energy upgrade. But the main difference is MMM and gateway units. If MMM were as weak as gateway units, then it would be a reasonable argument. But the ghost is just a very good support unit, while HT is the most crucial part of stopping their marauders from absolutely tearing you. For those saying u often have max energy on your ghosts from just waiting around your base, it's completely different for Protoss. If a terran knows a protoss is going HT in the mid game (in patch 1.3), Terran can expand or do wateva it wants becuz they know the Protoss can't attack soon in fear of getting EMP'd. If u wait for over 175+ on all your templars, u're being extremely defensive and tht would be the only way to play HT in the mid--early-late game. Of course, then they would just EMP u twice and it dosen't matter. +15 Energy upgrade is wat i think it pretty decent. You can't just warp-in and storm instantly, but it makes it somewat usable to go HT and be slightly aggressive, or it allows u to aggressively expand as well. I think the Protoss would be fine with it and Terran's wouldn't have to worry about the admittedly scary defence tht is HT. HT was never really tht bad offensively, it was the fact tht it had so much defensive use tht was the problem. I'd also like to point out tht altho storm is extremely good against marines, against marauder compositions, they suck unless u have the billions of storms, and even then it can be close (san vs sc is 1 example). Storm is just so easily avoidable for marauders, and do virtually nothing. But the storm tht they stood in for 1 second, u had to wait 40 seconds for it. if youre not crying about being able to warp in storms(which i think is just dumb in the first place, then ill hope this post was to others, +13/15(what was it in bw?) to starting energy would be fine for me. granted i play zerg but still | ||
|
By.Fantasy
Thailand123 Posts
On March 13 2011 18:59 Homeless666 wrote: No one cares about you ... SC2 is still developing and there will be two expansions with new units so it will take some time to balance SC2 I was just saying whats on my mind when I first typed that.. I don't really know why I typed that at all >.< IMO they should keep the Khaydarin Amulet upgrade but rather than +25 starting energy how bout +25 to more energy. Just saying.... I've been playing SC2 and its soo hard to kill terran army without storm... If blizzard throughly removed Khaydarin Amulet I'll just =_="" | ||
|
nam nam
Sweden4672 Posts
On March 13 2011 18:49 beef42 wrote: Except every other race has T1 units they either shoot up or run very quickly. Yeah because the stalkers are slow and don't shoot up. | ||
|
Raymund
Swaziland14 Posts
| ||
|
RandomAccount#49059
United States2140 Posts
| ||
|
xAPOCALYPSEx
1418 Posts
At least if this goes through, hopefully we'll be seeing some protosses make use of super-late game Colossus/Carrier tech? :D (gogo squirtle) Also, hating the archon toilet nerf, the most expensive unit in the game just became even worse than it already was. Looks like the only thing it'll be useful for now is the KiWiKaKi-esqe blink stalker/recall attacks and as a slow ball of stealth. I don't really think the EMP nerf will change much except help early game protoss have a little better survivability against early ghost pushes, which could have already been thwarted by spreading out the sentries. I like the fungal change, having it as a projectile was a bad idea in my opinion (at least as slow as it was). Hopefully this can be a decent answer to the 1-control-group protoss death ball. Stim/Bunker nerf: I like the idea of the bunker build time nerf, as bunker rushes and the such are still extremely deadly while costing nearly nothing if you can salvage and get your units out safely. The stim nerf doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me as a protoss. I don't really find stim timing attacks a pain to deal with at the level I play at currently. However I don't completely know the zerg side of things and I also know that I used to despise stim timing pushes that would murder me every time in plat PvT. Battlecruiser speed buff: I can only hope that one day, some pro will find it in himself to incorporate battlecruisers into a non-gimmicky build so we can start seeing even more diversties in the match-ups. One change that I really want to see (and relatively soon), is some way of further diversifying PvP as a matchup. Right now, it really does come down to who can 4 gate faster or who has more colossus in most of the PvP's I play. I'd really like blizzard to even just attempt to try to nerf the 4 gate in at least the PvP matchup if not also the PvZ, while also adding something that will encourage protoss to go for stargate or twilight council tech earlier (or at all) in lieu of robotech. But like I said, I can only hope. | ||
|
Zorgaz
Sweden2951 Posts
Why are so many people complaining about a nerf? Ghost nerf is okay if KA is removed i guess. | ||
|
SigmaoctanusIV
United States3313 Posts
+ EMP now drains up to 100 energy instead of all available energy. The effect on Protoss shields remains unchanged. this doesn't really make sense to me. Why would they change the effect on energy? I understand that it's for sentries (sense HTs will not almost never get over 100 energy since no one will make em) but should they make it so it can cap out on shield damage instead? I would rather have 0 energy since you almost never get over 100 energy expect the first couple sentries you make. lets say 500 shield damage? it would prioritize over the center of the emp and spread as it does damage and stops at 500? | ||
|
By.Fantasy
Thailand123 Posts
On March 13 2011 19:33 SigmaoctanusIV wrote: o Ghost + EMP now drains up to 100 energy instead of all available energy. The effect on Protoss shields remains unchanged. this doesn't really make sense to me. Why would they change the effect on energy? I understand that it's for sentries (sense HTs will not almost never get over 100 energy since no one will make em) but should they make it so it can cap out on shield damage instead? I would rather have 0 energy since you almost never get over 100 energy expect the first couple sentries you make. lets say 500 shield damage? it would prioritize over the center of the emp and spread as it does damage and stops at 500? .... Sigh... Maybe Blizzard have something better that we can't understand and I dearly hope that the two expansion will make the game better but judging from this patches my faith on them begins to disappear. | ||
|
Shooks
Australia256 Posts
On March 13 2011 13:37 Jimmeh wrote: Did you miss the EMP nerf or are you trolling? I really don't get the amount of players saying "The only valid Protoss opening is colossus now". What happened to stargate opening? Chargelots? Blink stalkers? DTs? Mass gateway units? I feel like anyone saying that colossus are the only viable opening with the templar nerf are people who only go colossus now anyway. They EMP nerf doesn't change anything, and judging by your posts, I'm guessing you're at a very low level. SG openings are either all in or you open either VR (And keep going VR on 2 base and do a timing, or go a few phoenix then transition into HTs/Colossi judging by what you see). All the rest of the things you mentioned is just a buff to the gateway units, which you can't solely rely on in the mid to lategame, that's where you need an AOE unit because MMM > Gateway units. And no I've been going HTs openings for 4 months. They need to give HTs a mana regen buff at least to make it fair, if their really going to follow up with this patch | ||
|
Satiinifi
Finland192 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img856.imageshack.us/img856/5580/split.jpg) Here we go, now you will survive the emp push easily, nomatter if emp takes up 500 mana or 100  | ||
|
Lurk
Germany359 Posts
On March 13 2011 19:33 SigmaoctanusIV wrote: o Ghost + EMP now drains up to 100 energy instead of all available energy. The effect on Protoss shields remains unchanged. this doesn't really make sense to me. Why would they change the effect on energy? I understand that it's for sentries (sense HTs will not almost never get over 100 energy since no one will make em) but should they make it so it can cap out on shield damage instead? I would rather have 0 energy since you almost never get over 100 energy expect the first couple sentries you make. lets say 500 shield damage? it would prioritize over the center of the emp and spread as it does damage and stops at 500? It is already capped out at shield damage. EMP will never do more than 100 damage to shields per unit. And if you mean that EMP should be capped at the total amount of shield drained - wouldn't that kind of defeat the purpose of an AoE spell in the first place ? Just learn to spread your units so one EMP doesn't hit all of your army. | ||
|
Shooks
Australia256 Posts
On March 13 2011 17:30 pirsq wrote: To all the Protoss squealing about "high templar never have more than 100 energy": The reason they never build up energy is because currently, you never have to worry about getting them ahead of time. You wouldn't ever see ghosts/infestors with energy either if you could warp them in, cast a spell and then morph them into a thor/ultralisk. Now that you actually have to think about getting them ahead of time, you'll naturally have them sitting around with higher energy. You're comparing a Archon to a Ultra/thor? ROFL. EVERY good player warps them in before hand, what else would Protoss be doing with their gas if they open HTs? Why do people keep bringing this up, when every high level Protoss player already does? | ||
|
sekritzzz
1515 Posts
On March 13 2011 19:44 Satiini wrote: Here we go, now you will survive the emp push easily, nomatter if emp takes up 500 mana or 100 If i wasn't too lazy i would of copy pasted your picture with terran units and said "Here we go, now you will survive the storm push easily" | ||
| ||
