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On March 14 2011 14:40 dapierow wrote:
Zergs rush infestor now = Terran finding a timing attack right before infestors are out... gg
Yes, when Terrans hard counter your build blindly, it tends to be strong. Especially if you make a pool, lair, and infestation pit before making units.
On March 13 2011 23:57 TheButtonmen wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 19:32 Zorgaz wrote:
When i read the patch notes it seems to me that FG has been buffed.
Why are so many people complaining about a nerf?
We don't fungal to deal damage, we fungal to lock units down and delay pushs, it now takes two fungals to do the job one used to be able to do. Opening infestors is already quite risky and hard to pull off, it's now going to be completely unviable which means more mutaling, which means -yawn-. The nerf to HT means even more collossus and the nerf to infestors means more mutas, how exciting, ignoring all balance considerations what it's done is make the game even more rigid and removes options which imo lowers the fun.
Fungal now deals better DPS to Colossi that Corrupters, is AOE, and Infestors are still useful when Colossi are dead. An infestor with enough energy for two fungals (or two infestors), can now kill all the marines in a bioball in 5 game seconds if they have combat shields and didn't stim. If they don't have combat shields or used stim, you can kill all the marines in 4 seconds with one fungal. This means that if a Terran tries to do a slow push, and use marines to bait you into Siege Tank range (as we often see in the GSL), you can now go "LOL Fungal".
If a Protoss is going Colo/VR, you can hit the whole ball with one fungal and do hundreds of points of damage in less time than it takes Artosis to go "So many banelings!"
Yeah, it's less good at slowing down pushes. But it's much better at killing the shit out of pushes, making slowing the down kind of pointless.
The Fungal change is also a minor buff to Brood Lords in ZvT, because Vikings are armored. Fungal will now gigglestomp vikings. It takes 13 game seconds (4 consecutive fungals) to kill a clump of vikings. That's pretty goddamn fast. Indeed, if the Terran doesn't get a lot of Vikings, they'll die well before the Broods do.
If Zerg generally wasn't bad enough to need it, Infestors would be almost ludicrously OP now. It's no longer situational. It's kill the shit-uational.
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On March 14 2011 14:51 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2011 22:03 Mentymion wrote:Here are some reasons why the Patch 1.3 PTR is completley garbage ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + Show Spoiler +
- It will be the third patch which ignores the Reaper again since Patch 1.1.2. The unit is practically dead cuz of 4 mayor changes such as the Supply Depot Requirement for the Barracks, the Factory Requirement for the Nitro packs Upgrade, the Roach range buff from 3 to 4 and the additionally 5 secs. to build from the Patch 1.1.0 and Blizzard doesn't even care to slightley buff the unit.
- We get another useless build time change for the Bunker. We had a 40 sec. build time at the start of the Beta, 30 sec. during Beta Patch 6 to the end, 35 sec. with the first mayor balance change in Patch 1.1.0 since release and now we will get 40 secs. again which probably won't change anything. Instead of looking on the "Salvage Ability" for bunkers which might be the problem cuz you always get your money back even when your bunker rush fails, Blizzard decides to leave that out and simply increase the build time again.
- Increasing Movement speed from 1.406 to 1.875 for Battlecruisers might be a good change but it's interesting to see that the Battlecruiser get so much attention compared to the Carrier. We had a slight dmg nerf on the Ground weapons during the Patch 1.1.0 and build time decreases for the BC and the Fusion Core during the Beta, fine. Do you actually remember when we had our last Carrier balance change ? Not ? Well the reason is easy. There was none since the start of the Beta. The Carrier is not underpowered but heavily underused and each patch without an effort to change that is a pain in the ass.
- The 3 different Protoss Tech trees will be kinda none existent in the higher level of play if the Khaydarin Amulet and Vortex change really appear in Patch 1.3. As a Protoss player myself I completley agree that Warp-In Storms are to strong but simply removing the upgrade for HT's is so damn silly and Blizzard doesn't even try to redesign those Energy Upgrades but that leads to a another fundamental problem. The whole Templar Tech turns into shit. HT's and DT's were already underused and this change makes it even worse. The Vortex Archon combination is dead. The Mothership has probably lost his best weapon and this unit was also heavily underused. It seems like every P involved Matchup will turn into a War of the Worls with pure Colossi domination and btw. the only thing which had the right to be removed was the Dark Shrine and nothing else.
- Redesigning Fungal Growth instead of Neural Parasite. If you ask a High Level Zerg player about these two abilitys you will always get the same answer. We saw Fungal Growth in the GSL, the ability has potential, it's not like the Spell is totally useless but where the fuck do I see NP in the GSL or high level games? The Spell is probably the worst in the game right now and Blizzard......yeah they buff Fungal Growth -_-
- Ignoring Hydras again and thats really dumb cuz every other change will help out Non-Hydra play. Infestors will take over the DPS role and PvZ turns into Colossi madness anyway so why should we play Hydras anymore ?
- EMP change will have no impact. It rather seems like a joke that EMP finally gets a nerf, after the HT's get nerfed into Oblivion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To summarize.....the patch is complete bullshit! Balancing the game is not about getting the most units working. Buffing Reaper will not balance the game. Buffer NP will not balance the game. Making Carriers better will not balance the game. Making Hydras better will not balance the game. Balance patches are about balance. Buffing something has a very good chance of breaking the game, making balance worse. Making balance worse is the opposite of the purpose of a balance patch.
There is more then one way to balance the game, look at how their predecessors balanced starcraft 1. No content was removed, only numbers were changed. This current theme that they have going on seems to be based on pure laziness. Instead of going through all that effort to get storms just right, in terms of damage, range, radius, the actual unit that uses it ect. they simply take the easy path and cut it from the game.
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On March 14 2011 14:39 Blisse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:36 sk` wrote:
If the problem is insta-storms then shouldn't Bliz just make the Amulet's effect only +20 or +15 starting?
Removing it is like removing a chunk of SC-lore. Then we have to consider that it's not instant Psi Storms they believe to be the problem. Thoughts on what might be? Well... if it is only instant storms then my solution is ideal; however... there are other ways to solve that too. ex. Templars can't be warped, etc.
Hard to say what their objective is on this.
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Looks good with most recent update. Insta cast just because I don't have to relearn how to FG properly.
Ghost EMP taking off 100 seems smart since most units either won't have 100 or are like BCs and require more than 100 energy so just a nice polish to EMP not really a nerf since it's pretty much just as effective without completely taking yamato ect out of play.
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On March 14 2011 15:09 ToyotomiXD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:51 NicolBolas wrote:On March 13 2011 22:03 Mentymion wrote:Here are some reasons why the Patch 1.3 PTR is completley garbage ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + Show Spoiler +
- It will be the third patch which ignores the Reaper again since Patch 1.1.2. The unit is practically dead cuz of 4 mayor changes such as the Supply Depot Requirement for the Barracks, the Factory Requirement for the Nitro packs Upgrade, the Roach range buff from 3 to 4 and the additionally 5 secs. to build from the Patch 1.1.0 and Blizzard doesn't even care to slightley buff the unit.
- We get another useless build time change for the Bunker. We had a 40 sec. build time at the start of the Beta, 30 sec. during Beta Patch 6 to the end, 35 sec. with the first mayor balance change in Patch 1.1.0 since release and now we will get 40 secs. again which probably won't change anything. Instead of looking on the "Salvage Ability" for bunkers which might be the problem cuz you always get your money back even when your bunker rush fails, Blizzard decides to leave that out and simply increase the build time again.
- Increasing Movement speed from 1.406 to 1.875 for Battlecruisers might be a good change but it's interesting to see that the Battlecruiser get so much attention compared to the Carrier. We had a slight dmg nerf on the Ground weapons during the Patch 1.1.0 and build time decreases for the BC and the Fusion Core during the Beta, fine. Do you actually remember when we had our last Carrier balance change ? Not ? Well the reason is easy. There was none since the start of the Beta. The Carrier is not underpowered but heavily underused and each patch without an effort to change that is a pain in the ass.
- The 3 different Protoss Tech trees will be kinda none existent in the higher level of play if the Khaydarin Amulet and Vortex change really appear in Patch 1.3. As a Protoss player myself I completley agree that Warp-In Storms are to strong but simply removing the upgrade for HT's is so damn silly and Blizzard doesn't even try to redesign those Energy Upgrades but that leads to a another fundamental problem. The whole Templar Tech turns into shit. HT's and DT's were already underused and this change makes it even worse. The Vortex Archon combination is dead. The Mothership has probably lost his best weapon and this unit was also heavily underused. It seems like every P involved Matchup will turn into a War of the Worls with pure Colossi domination and btw. the only thing which had the right to be removed was the Dark Shrine and nothing else.
- Redesigning Fungal Growth instead of Neural Parasite. If you ask a High Level Zerg player about these two abilitys you will always get the same answer. We saw Fungal Growth in the GSL, the ability has potential, it's not like the Spell is totally useless but where the fuck do I see NP in the GSL or high level games? The Spell is probably the worst in the game right now and Blizzard......yeah they buff Fungal Growth -_-
- Ignoring Hydras again and thats really dumb cuz every other change will help out Non-Hydra play. Infestors will take over the DPS role and PvZ turns into Colossi madness anyway so why should we play Hydras anymore ?
- EMP change will have no impact. It rather seems like a joke that EMP finally gets a nerf, after the HT's get nerfed into Oblivion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To summarize.....the patch is complete bullshit! Balancing the game is not about getting the most units working. Buffing Reaper will not balance the game. Buffer NP will not balance the game. Making Carriers better will not balance the game. Making Hydras better will not balance the game. Balance patches are about balance. Buffing something has a very good chance of breaking the game, making balance worse. Making balance worse is the opposite of the purpose of a balance patch. There is more then one way to balance the game, look at how their predecessors balanced starcraft 1. No content was removed, only numbers were changed. This current theme that they have going on seems to be based on pure laziness. Instead of going through all that effort to get storms just right, in terms of damage, range, radius, the actual unit that uses it ect. they simply take the easy path and cut it from the game.
... laziness? I hope you're kidding.
There was no effort put into getting storms "just right" in SC1. The range, radius, unit that uses it, etc, were the same from the day that SC1 shipped. The jewel upgrade never had its properties changed from the day SC1 shipped. The only things that ever changed about storm in SC1 were the damage and duration of effect.
Blizzard has put forth more time and effort in designing and balancing SC2 than they ever put into SC1.
Also, they did not cut Psi Storm from the game. They dropped the Amulet upgrade; that's a far cry from cutting Psi Storm from the game.
On March 14 2011 15:28 sk` wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:39 Blisse wrote:On March 14 2011 14:36 sk` wrote:
If the problem is insta-storms then shouldn't Bliz just make the Amulet's effect only +20 or +15 starting?
Removing it is like removing a chunk of SC-lore. Then we have to consider that it's not instant Psi Storms they believe to be the problem. Thoughts on what might be? Well... if it is only instant storms then my solution is ideal; however... there are other ways to solve that too. ex. Templars can't be warped, etc. Hard to say what their objective is on this.
Not being able to warp-in Templar also means not being able to do warp-in Feedbacks where required. That's a very heavy-handed approach to balancing. Also, having a Gateway unit that can't be warped-in is a big kludge. It'd be like having Vikings get upgraded like Factory units just because it has a ground form.
Blizzard's solution is exactly what it needs to be: targeted at the problem and solves exactly and only that. They felt that warp-in Storms were too good, that they were the main reason why TvP was imbalanced late-game. So they took it out.
Removing the upgrade is more likely to actually solve the problem than simply nerfing the upgrade a bit. After all, there isn't that much difference between instant storms and storms 5 seconds later. By forcing them to wait a full 25 energy units, it's much more capable of making everything work.
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I still wish they could have kept in the Amulet and just lowered the starting energy of the High Templar by 15 energy. I seem to remember someone saying a change like that isn't possible though for some reason. Either way ... I will learn to live with all the changes :D
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So now infesters can do more damage than a siege tank can, in the same time than it takes to siege a tank and for it to fire, to a larger area, and it can do this damage without having to stay on the spot, forces you to stay on the spot, AND can still burrow and move at the same time.
Why was the infester considered useless in the first place?
Anyway I'm not complaining, people need to stop raging on about it and trust that if this does make the number skew badly, blizzard will change it. If you honestly feel something is overpowered, then you do get the choice to pick your race at the start of every game...
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Well the mothership is back to normal, it actually had practical use for a while there
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On March 14 2011 16:15 LionsFist wrote:
So now infesters can do more damage than a siege tank can, in the same time than it takes to siege a tank and for it to fire, to a larger area, and it can do this damage without having to stay on the spot, forces you to stay on the spot, AND can still burrow and move at the same time.
Why was the infester considered useless in the first place?
Anyway I'm not complaining, people need to stop raging on about it and trust that if this does make the number skew badly, blizzard will change it. If you honestly feel something is overpowered, then you do get the choice to pick your race at the start of every game...
Well, Infestors have like half the range of Sieged Tanks and can only cast as many Fungal Growths as they have energy.. Terran still can [cloak] Ghosts and EMP/Snipe Infestors.
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EMP was too strong imo, good change. Amulet was too strong too but removing it and not adding anything back is too harsh. Lets just hope the EMP change is separate in Blizzard's eyes from Amulet change (e.g. if Amulet is brought back in any form the EMP change will not be reverted).
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On March 14 2011 15:41 NicolBolas wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:09 ToyotomiXD wrote:On March 14 2011 14:51 NicolBolas wrote:On March 13 2011 22:03 Mentymion wrote:Here are some reasons why the Patch 1.3 PTR is completley garbage ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + Show Spoiler +
- It will be the third patch which ignores the Reaper again since Patch 1.1.2. The unit is practically dead cuz of 4 mayor changes such as the Supply Depot Requirement for the Barracks, the Factory Requirement for the Nitro packs Upgrade, the Roach range buff from 3 to 4 and the additionally 5 secs. to build from the Patch 1.1.0 and Blizzard doesn't even care to slightley buff the unit.
- We get another useless build time change for the Bunker. We had a 40 sec. build time at the start of the Beta, 30 sec. during Beta Patch 6 to the end, 35 sec. with the first mayor balance change in Patch 1.1.0 since release and now we will get 40 secs. again which probably won't change anything. Instead of looking on the "Salvage Ability" for bunkers which might be the problem cuz you always get your money back even when your bunker rush fails, Blizzard decides to leave that out and simply increase the build time again.
- Increasing Movement speed from 1.406 to 1.875 for Battlecruisers might be a good change but it's interesting to see that the Battlecruiser get so much attention compared to the Carrier. We had a slight dmg nerf on the Ground weapons during the Patch 1.1.0 and build time decreases for the BC and the Fusion Core during the Beta, fine. Do you actually remember when we had our last Carrier balance change ? Not ? Well the reason is easy. There was none since the start of the Beta. The Carrier is not underpowered but heavily underused and each patch without an effort to change that is a pain in the ass.
- The 3 different Protoss Tech trees will be kinda none existent in the higher level of play if the Khaydarin Amulet and Vortex change really appear in Patch 1.3. As a Protoss player myself I completley agree that Warp-In Storms are to strong but simply removing the upgrade for HT's is so damn silly and Blizzard doesn't even try to redesign those Energy Upgrades but that leads to a another fundamental problem. The whole Templar Tech turns into shit. HT's and DT's were already underused and this change makes it even worse. The Vortex Archon combination is dead. The Mothership has probably lost his best weapon and this unit was also heavily underused. It seems like every P involved Matchup will turn into a War of the Worls with pure Colossi domination and btw. the only thing which had the right to be removed was the Dark Shrine and nothing else.
- Redesigning Fungal Growth instead of Neural Parasite. If you ask a High Level Zerg player about these two abilitys you will always get the same answer. We saw Fungal Growth in the GSL, the ability has potential, it's not like the Spell is totally useless but where the fuck do I see NP in the GSL or high level games? The Spell is probably the worst in the game right now and Blizzard......yeah they buff Fungal Growth -_-
- Ignoring Hydras again and thats really dumb cuz every other change will help out Non-Hydra play. Infestors will take over the DPS role and PvZ turns into Colossi madness anyway so why should we play Hydras anymore ?
- EMP change will have no impact. It rather seems like a joke that EMP finally gets a nerf, after the HT's get nerfed into Oblivion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To summarize.....the patch is complete bullshit! Balancing the game is not about getting the most units working. Buffing Reaper will not balance the game. Buffer NP will not balance the game. Making Carriers better will not balance the game. Making Hydras better will not balance the game. Balance patches are about balance. Buffing something has a very good chance of breaking the game, making balance worse. Making balance worse is the opposite of the purpose of a balance patch. There is more then one way to balance the game, look at how their predecessors balanced starcraft 1. No content was removed, only numbers were changed. This current theme that they have going on seems to be based on pure laziness. Instead of going through all that effort to get storms just right, in terms of damage, range, radius, the actual unit that uses it ect. they simply take the easy path and cut it from the game. ... laziness? I hope you're kidding. There was no effort put into getting storms "just right" in SC1. The range, radius, unit that uses it, etc, were the same from the day that SC1 shipped. The jewel upgrade never had its properties changed from the day SC1 shipped. The only things that ever changed about storm in SC1 were the damage and duration of effect. Blizzard has put forth more time and effort in designing and balancing SC2 than they ever put into SC1. Also, they did not cut Psi Storm from the game. They dropped the Amulet upgrade; that's a far cry from cutting Psi Storm from the game. Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:28 sk` wrote:On March 14 2011 14:39 Blisse wrote:On March 14 2011 14:36 sk` wrote:
If the problem is insta-storms then shouldn't Bliz just make the Amulet's effect only +20 or +15 starting?
Removing it is like removing a chunk of SC-lore. Then we have to consider that it's not instant Psi Storms they believe to be the problem. Thoughts on what might be? Well... if it is only instant storms then my solution is ideal; however... there are other ways to solve that too. ex. Templars can't be warped, etc. Hard to say what their objective is on this. Not being able to warp-in Templar also means not being able to do warp-in Feedbacks where required. That's a very heavy-handed approach to balancing. Also, having a Gateway unit that can't be warped-in is a big kludge. It'd be like having Vikings get upgraded like Factory units just because it has a ground form. Blizzard's solution is exactly what it needs to be: targeted at the problem and solves exactly and only that. They felt that warp-in Storms were too good, that they were the main reason why TvP was imbalanced late-game. So they took it out. Removing the upgrade is more likely to actually solve the problem than simply nerfing the upgrade a bit. After all, there isn't that much difference between instant storms and storms 5 seconds later. By forcing them to wait a full 25 energy units, it's much more capable of making everything work.
Actually, there's a huge difference between instant storms and storms 5 seconds later. And who's to say that they can't nerf KA to make storm 10 seconds later instead of 5 seconds later? That too would solve the problem of warp-in storms yet provide a nice bonus to HT energy that's worth being researched. I too feel that cutting out content such as upgrades is the wrong way to go, and it's really annoying to see stuff getting taken out constantly, especially since blizzard seemed to hint that they wouldn't really be adding new multiplayer units in the expansions. So far, Protoss has lost 2 upgrades now (VR speed, KA), and if the trend of REMOVING stuff in balance patches continues, who knows how many more upgrades for any race will be removed (yeah, slipperly slope, blah blah, and I'll gladly eat my words if Blizzard actually adds in a NEW upgrade in a balance patch, but I doubt it). All you get from REMOVING upgrades is simplifying the game, which is terrible.
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On March 14 2011 16:24 Chicken Chaser wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 16:15 LionsFist wrote:
So now infesters can do more damage than a siege tank can, in the same time than it takes to siege a tank and for it to fire, to a larger area, and it can do this damage without having to stay on the spot, forces you to stay on the spot, AND can still burrow and move at the same time.
Why was the infester considered useless in the first place?
Anyway I'm not complaining, people need to stop raging on about it and trust that if this does make the number skew badly, blizzard will change it. If you honestly feel something is overpowered, then you do get the choice to pick your race at the start of every game... Well, Infestors have like half the range of Sieged Tanks and can only cast as many Fungal Growths as they have energy.. Terran still can [cloak] Ghosts and EMP/Snipe Infestors.
Well now Ghosts will only remove up to 100 energy so if you build up enough you'll still get the fungal off. Plus Ghosts really eat into the teching of a Terran player; they're either going to sacrifice medivacs or tanks to get enough of them to preempt infestors, especially if you're talking upgrading cloak. It will be interesting to watch the matchup shift after this change.
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The ghost change seems reasonable given the removable of the HT energy upgrade. Still, I'm pretty displeased with it overall, it would be nice if they at least lowered the cost of ghosts slightly. Forcing twice as many emps on high templars which keeping the cost requirement the same seems strenuous.
Hopefully this change is for the best.
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I am so sick of these updates and nerfs to terran and protoss! Blizzard needs to stop worrying about protoss and terran and buff zerg. Nerfing just makes it worse, they should face the problem head on by dealing with zerg, not trying to make terran and protoss worse to bring them on the level of zerg.
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I agree with posters like HolyArrow - removing upgrades or erring on nerfs makes the game more simplistic and less enjoyable. Blizzard needs more lateral thinking when it's trying to address balance. They have the PTR implemented, they should use it to it's full ability to explore solutions.
An idea. Instead of removing the KA, how about prevent production of HTs from Warp Gates (with Warp-In) and rather can only be produced from Gateways (old style). This is substantial and should be accompanied with a reversion of Immortals built back at the Gateway (w/ Twilight Council), and likewise cannot be Warped-In. For those who complain about Protoss macro being easy, this should add a little extra complexity (forcing a mix of Gateways and Warp Gates), while keeping KA. The Immortal move (reversion) allows Toss the flexibility to respond to early mass Roaches and Marauders.
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On March 14 2011 15:09 ToyotomiXD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 14:51 NicolBolas wrote:On March 13 2011 22:03 Mentymion wrote:Here are some reasons why the Patch 1.3 PTR is completley garbage ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- + Show Spoiler +
- It will be the third patch which ignores the Reaper again since Patch 1.1.2. The unit is practically dead cuz of 4 mayor changes such as the Supply Depot Requirement for the Barracks, the Factory Requirement for the Nitro packs Upgrade, the Roach range buff from 3 to 4 and the additionally 5 secs. to build from the Patch 1.1.0 and Blizzard doesn't even care to slightley buff the unit.
- We get another useless build time change for the Bunker. We had a 40 sec. build time at the start of the Beta, 30 sec. during Beta Patch 6 to the end, 35 sec. with the first mayor balance change in Patch 1.1.0 since release and now we will get 40 secs. again which probably won't change anything. Instead of looking on the "Salvage Ability" for bunkers which might be the problem cuz you always get your money back even when your bunker rush fails, Blizzard decides to leave that out and simply increase the build time again.
- Increasing Movement speed from 1.406 to 1.875 for Battlecruisers might be a good change but it's interesting to see that the Battlecruiser get so much attention compared to the Carrier. We had a slight dmg nerf on the Ground weapons during the Patch 1.1.0 and build time decreases for the BC and the Fusion Core during the Beta, fine. Do you actually remember when we had our last Carrier balance change ? Not ? Well the reason is easy. There was none since the start of the Beta. The Carrier is not underpowered but heavily underused and each patch without an effort to change that is a pain in the ass.
- The 3 different Protoss Tech trees will be kinda none existent in the higher level of play if the Khaydarin Amulet and Vortex change really appear in Patch 1.3. As a Protoss player myself I completley agree that Warp-In Storms are to strong but simply removing the upgrade for HT's is so damn silly and Blizzard doesn't even try to redesign those Energy Upgrades but that leads to a another fundamental problem. The whole Templar Tech turns into shit. HT's and DT's were already underused and this change makes it even worse. The Vortex Archon combination is dead. The Mothership has probably lost his best weapon and this unit was also heavily underused. It seems like every P involved Matchup will turn into a War of the Worls with pure Colossi domination and btw. the only thing which had the right to be removed was the Dark Shrine and nothing else.
- Redesigning Fungal Growth instead of Neural Parasite. If you ask a High Level Zerg player about these two abilitys you will always get the same answer. We saw Fungal Growth in the GSL, the ability has potential, it's not like the Spell is totally useless but where the fuck do I see NP in the GSL or high level games? The Spell is probably the worst in the game right now and Blizzard......yeah they buff Fungal Growth -_-
- Ignoring Hydras again and thats really dumb cuz every other change will help out Non-Hydra play. Infestors will take over the DPS role and PvZ turns into Colossi madness anyway so why should we play Hydras anymore ?
- EMP change will have no impact. It rather seems like a joke that EMP finally gets a nerf, after the HT's get nerfed into Oblivion.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To summarize.....the patch is complete bullshit! Balancing the game is not about getting the most units working. Buffing Reaper will not balance the game. Buffer NP will not balance the game. Making Carriers better will not balance the game. Making Hydras better will not balance the game. Balance patches are about balance. Buffing something has a very good chance of breaking the game, making balance worse. Making balance worse is the opposite of the purpose of a balance patch. There is more then one way to balance the game, look at how their predecessors balanced starcraft 1. No content was removed, only numbers were changed. This current theme that they have going on seems to be based on pure laziness. Instead of going through all that effort to get storms just right, in terms of damage, range, radius, the actual unit that uses it ect. they simply take the easy path and cut it from the game.
Broodwar didnt need to remove anything because it wasnt as volatile as SC2 is. Perfect unit movement AI and unlimited unit selection allowed for some units to be "overkill" and still not ruining the game. If you had Dark Swarm in SC2 it would completely break the game, but in BW it was merely "really hard". The volatility of SC2 comes from "improvements" which cant be quantified like the ones I mentioned above and the new macro mechanics.
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On March 14 2011 15:38 Noli wrote:
Looks good with most recent update. Insta cast just because I don't have to relearn how to FG properly.
Ghost EMP taking off 100 seems smart since most units either won't have 100 or are like BCs and require more than 100 energy so just a nice polish to EMP not really a nerf since it's pretty much just as effective without completely taking yamato ect out of play.
To me it seems like a one-sided view on the whole thing. Lets look at two scenarios:
1. Ghost EMPs a few High Templars: "Shit! We cant psi storm anymore, lets merge into Archons."
2. High Templar Feedbacks a Ghost: "Urgh ... me dead ..."
Does this seem fair if EMP only removes 100 energy while Feedback still has the power to kill units? Personally I would love to have one thing added to Feedback as well:
"Feedback can not kill a unit, only reduce it to 1 hp at most."
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On March 16 2011 15:09 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:38 Noli wrote:
Looks good with most recent update. Insta cast just because I don't have to relearn how to FG properly.
Ghost EMP taking off 100 seems smart since most units either won't have 100 or are like BCs and require more than 100 energy so just a nice polish to EMP not really a nerf since it's pretty much just as effective without completely taking yamato ect out of play. To me it seems like a one-sided view on the whole thing. Lets look at two scenarios: 1. Ghost EMPs a few High Templars: "Shit! We cant psi storm anymore, lets merge into Archons." 2. High Templar Feedbacks a Ghost: "Urgh ... me dead ..." Does this seem fair if EMP only removes 100 energy while Feedback still has the power to kill units? Personally I would love to have one thing added to Feedback as well: "Feedback can not kill a unit, only reduce it to 1 hp at most."
Your completely neglecting the fact that feedback is one unit and emp is an aoe that knocks out shields and energy.. Emp does so much more damage its not even funny.
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On March 16 2011 15:09 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2011 15:38 Noli wrote:
Looks good with most recent update. Insta cast just because I don't have to relearn how to FG properly.
Ghost EMP taking off 100 seems smart since most units either won't have 100 or are like BCs and require more than 100 energy so just a nice polish to EMP not really a nerf since it's pretty much just as effective without completely taking yamato ect out of play. To me it seems like a one-sided view on the whole thing. Lets look at two scenarios: 1. Ghost EMPs a few High Templars: "Shit! We cant psi storm anymore, lets merge into Archons." 2. High Templar Feedbacks a Ghost: "Urgh ... me dead ..." Does this seem fair if EMP only removes 100 energy while Feedback still has the power to kill units? Personally I would love to have one thing added to Feedback as well: "Feedback can not kill a unit, only reduce it to 1 hp at most."
EMP also Takes out 100 shields and is an AOE. Feedback can hit one unit and only one unit, and said unit needs mana, AND enough mana to actually kill it.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/n4ifk.jpg)
