|
Calgary25997 Posts
On March 02 2011 15:02 ScrapBrain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 13:34 Chill wrote:
Yes, and I agree. But do you think it's #1 on the long-list of things that need to happen before it booms (as the OP says) or #1000? I'm sorry, Chill, but where did I say that? I'm trying to be mannered, but do not put words in my mouth. There is much that could be done above using people's names, I admit. It is just one of the things I wanted to get opinions on. For someone who holds a certain level of power on these boards, I would have hoped you wouldn't put down false accusations and condemnation.
"Real Names for eSports to Boom?"
How should I interprit that? "Real Names [and 999 other more important things first] for eSports to Boom?"?
|
I use stylized last name for my gamertag so if I ever go pro, I got my bases covered on this issue.
I like the screen names though, it's like a stage name. Easy to remember and easily identifiable.
|
On March 02 2011 13:33 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 12:38 ScrapBrain wrote:On March 02 2011 11:46 Chill wrote:
Where are you people explaining what we need to do to "expand esports" coming from lately?
Let's see, do you think the thing holding back gaming from booming is:
- Social stigma with gaming not being legitimatized and accepted yet
OR
- Commentators calling people by their IDs
Hmm... The issue is not that there is a social stigma. If that mattered, not nearly as many people would be willing to express their love of eSports. But if you look at something such as poker, it is more than just a game. I have watched poker for years, but watching the actual game play itself is very boring. The excitement comes from back-stories and getting people you can root for, right? Who would your root for between MoonShatter and sToPGoGo? You have no idea because those are just two guys in my ladder division. What about Lim Yo Hwan vs Kim Won Gi? Korea has made those more than just Slayers`Boxer vs TSL.Fruitdealer. You don't think that they might have been on to something by making the people more than their handles? Your example doesn't make sense because you gave me two random IDs and then compared it to the most famous person in RTS history. You don't know who MoonShatter is. Great. If his name was Billy Friggly would you suddenly know who he was? No, of course you wouldn't. Ugh it jut makes zero sense. I can give you the reverse: What about 김민수 vs 이수현? Wouldn't you rather root for X'Ds~Grrrr... and [GG99]Slayers? I think you're aware that back-stories have nothing to do with IDs versus real names. Edit: Your example makes no little sense that it's fucking hurting my brain thinking about. "Korea has made those more than just Slayers`Boxer vs TSL.Fruitdealer". Yea, and if you ask the average person here who Kim Won Gi is, they won't know. But if you ask them who Fruitdealer is, they will know his entire story. So what does this prove? Edit 2: And to suggest this is the one thing we were missing to make this game boom. It's unfathomable to think you believe what you are writing. You are just sensationalizing a point of preference, and that's what's making this upset me so much. Edit 3: Okay, so here's my summary: Using real names would make the scene slightly more professional. How much more professional? It's arguable. But it's somewhere between #100 and #1000 on the top 10,000 things that would make SC2 more professional. Saying it's #1 is retarded, and I can't express it any nicer than that.
Ya I stated this in my first response (the first response to this thread) so obviously I completely agree. He threw in body language and character like they came with the name. The exact same logic can be used in the opposite fashion?
Would you rather watch a game between Jack Stevenson and Stan Smith or a game between WhiteRa and TLO? Well clearly you would rather watch WhiteRa and TLO therefore using gamer names is the best method from this flawless logic.
I hope everyone can tell why that is flawed logic. I don't think anyone is disagreeing that backstory is important... NASL said it is a focus of theirs and they will include it, while MLG said they are looking into it because it has worked for them with Halo, but looking solely at real names vs gamer names is very irrelevant. As I mentioned in the first post as well, they can simply add it on while also using their gamer names, but I feel that if anything, someone choosing their own name rather than using the one they are born with will show more of their personality.
|
On March 02 2011 14:55 Sein wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 11:46 don_kyuhote wrote:
I think there is an easy solution to make people call you by your real name.
Make your ID "gfkljwrdxk" Rofl, I've heard that if you try to enter a GSL qualifier with an obviously troll ID like that, they will make you change it. It would be absolutely hilarious to see a commentator trying to pronounce that though. I would pay to see that happen. It's hard to tell how much effect it has on the Korean pro scene, but I personally don't see a problem with just sticking to people's ID's at this point. Maybe if the SC2 pro scene outside of Korea becomes very big in the next couple of years, then we could start thinking about using their real names. Those Korean commentators actually do say "Greg Fields" instead of "IdrA" and "Jonathan" instead of "Jinro" by the way.
If you also notice Greg Fields and Jonathan aren't common names over there either...and to be really frank, Greg Fields is such a commonplace name. I mean, Tyler can get by with his sweet last name of Wasieleski, but how does a name like Greg Fields just stick to English speaker's brains?
|
On March 02 2011 15:05 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 15:02 ScrapBrain wrote:On March 02 2011 13:34 Chill wrote:
Yes, and I agree. But do you think it's #1 on the long-list of things that need to happen before it booms (as the OP says) or #1000? I'm sorry, Chill, but where did I say that? I'm trying to be mannered, but do not put words in my mouth. There is much that could be done above using people's names, I admit. It is just one of the things I wanted to get opinions on. For someone who holds a certain level of power on these boards, I would have hoped you wouldn't put down false accusations and condemnation. "Real Names for eSports to Boom?" How should I interprit that? "Real Names [and 999 other more important things first] for eSports to Boom?"?
It's amazing how because I bring up one topic for discussion, you assume it is the ONLY topic for discussion in my mind. If you look at what Korea does for their players and what the west does, we are getting closer to being similar. Obviously there are a lot of differences still and a long way to go. What I don't understand is why you are getting so infuriated that you are resorting to cursing (a lot by the way) on just an idea. I asked what people thought. You don't think it is necessary, leave it at that.
|
I could see that it might draw in more people who aren't really accepting of Esports, some people might see two gamertags facing each other and think oh its just some kids playing a game, but if they see two real names facing each other they might see it as more of a legitimate competition between those two players.
|
On March 02 2011 15:11 phantaxx wrote:
I could see that it might draw in more people who aren't really accepting of Esports, some people might see two gamertags facing each other and think oh its just some kids playing a game, but if they see two real names facing each other they might see it as more of a legitimate competition between those two players.
To make the analogy to poker again, a player like Tom Dwan is huge in the online scene. His screen name is Durr or something along those lines. A lot of the time they will actually call him "Tom 'Durr' Dwan" which is very different than "This guy with the screen name 'Durr.'"
|
On March 02 2011 11:46 Chill wrote:
Where are you people explaining what we need to do to "expand esports" coming from lately?
Let's see, do you think the thing holding back gaming from booming is:
- Social stigma with gaming not being legitimatized and accepted yet
OR
- Commentators calling people by their IDs
Hmm...
You are right on what being the bigger problem, but it can not be denied that the proposal of the OP would help to overcome the Social stigma, within the popular SC scene the names are mostly just funky, so we are doing okay there at least in the known names area[exempt the koreans... excrement anyone?],
When I see by accident some ESL cast of a shooter game, the commentator goes all nuts about "kilShot doing an amazing job" I as a grown gamer of 26 think to myself the little pooper needs to loose some spots and get a sense of reality, its not cool to be known and promoted as nerdcrusher48X. At least when you kind of getting famous switch it to something unique, non childish.
But yeah in general real names would help bringing the sport to none gamers but just as a side-effect its not THE thing that is holding us back. The reason why it is probably not conceived a big issue here on TL is thanks to our writers and people like JP, Wheat and Day[9] who never fail to go out of there way to introduce people just somewhere in the article or show as Jos [ret]de Kroon or Greg [Idra] Fields so I think the whole gaming world would profit if that is something that would be be picked up or being more enforced by other gaming news sites and also by other casters and tournament organisations.[yep I am looking at you Geoff, Husky, totalBiscuit, MLG, Dreamhack, NASL]
try not to make eSports big, try to make gaming accepted, here is one option, make your representatives play games...
http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/beitrag/video/1269118/Spielstunde-im-Bundestag#/beitrag/video/1269118/Spielstunde-im-Bundestag
mousesports playing against politicians in the German parliament lobby.
so when is EG gone be going to a LAN in the Senat? make it happen, for eSports! + Show Spoiler +Please dont shoot me Chill.
EDIT:
On March 02 2011 15:05 The_LiNk wrote:
I use stylized last name for my gamertag so if I ever go pro, I got my bases covered on this issue.
I like the screen names though, it's like a stage name. Easy to remember and easily identifiable.
Thank you link that was what I had in my head but couldn't word it. Don't drop the tags make them stage names like boxing, wrestling, poker, its accepted and promoted there.
EDIT2:
On March 02 2011 13:57 SeeDLiNg wrote:
I have a terrible time remembering anyone's name... ever... but I still remember zero, stork, hiya, bisu, kiwikaki... but I honestly can't remember my teachers name... player ids are 1000x better IMO. Much more personalization and fun involved. Esports wouldn't be the same without gamer tags.
I wanna take this one in as well as I think the sense of personalization trough gamer tags is a good point.
Example: for the life of it I am trying to think of inControl's last name for the last 30 minutes.
but the clean cut professionalism that was demand earlier needs to kick in and we need more: "In the niiiine o'clooock position with the reeeeed pieces, it iiiiiss Geoff [iiiincontrol] Istilldon'tknow aaaand in the 12 o'clock position......" and so on and so fourth.
Chill you might wanna make that a point in the TSL caster meeting if there is such a thing, its not #1 on the list for sure, but I wouldn't list it in the triple diggits either.
|
Calgary25997 Posts
On March 02 2011 15:10 ScrapBrain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 15:05 Chill wrote:On March 02 2011 15:02 ScrapBrain wrote:On March 02 2011 13:34 Chill wrote:
Yes, and I agree. But do you think it's #1 on the long-list of things that need to happen before it booms (as the OP says) or #1000? I'm sorry, Chill, but where did I say that? I'm trying to be mannered, but do not put words in my mouth. There is much that could be done above using people's names, I admit. It is just one of the things I wanted to get opinions on. For someone who holds a certain level of power on these boards, I would have hoped you wouldn't put down false accusations and condemnation. "Real Names for eSports to Boom?" How should I interprit that? "Real Names [and 999 other more important things first] for eSports to Boom?"? It's amazing how because I bring up one topic for discussion, you assume it is the ONLY topic for discussion in my mind. If you look at what Korea does for their players and what the west does, we are getting closer to being similar. Obviously there are a lot of differences still and a long way to go. What I don't understand is why you are getting so infuriated that you are resorting to cursing (a lot by the way) on just an idea. I asked what people thought. You don't think it is necessary, leave it at that.
You didn't just ask what people thought, you crafted it as if you thought it was extremely important.
Why don't you respond to my retorts then?
|
On March 02 2011 15:16 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 15:10 ScrapBrain wrote:On March 02 2011 15:05 Chill wrote:On March 02 2011 15:02 ScrapBrain wrote:On March 02 2011 13:34 Chill wrote:
Yes, and I agree. But do you think it's #1 on the long-list of things that need to happen before it booms (as the OP says) or #1000? I'm sorry, Chill, but where did I say that? I'm trying to be mannered, but do not put words in my mouth. There is much that could be done above using people's names, I admit. It is just one of the things I wanted to get opinions on. For someone who holds a certain level of power on these boards, I would have hoped you wouldn't put down false accusations and condemnation. "Real Names for eSports to Boom?" How should I interprit that? "Real Names [and 999 other more important things first] for eSports to Boom?"? It's amazing how because I bring up one topic for discussion, you assume it is the ONLY topic for discussion in my mind. If you look at what Korea does for their players and what the west does, we are getting closer to being similar. Obviously there are a lot of differences still and a long way to go. What I don't understand is why you are getting so infuriated that you are resorting to cursing (a lot by the way) on just an idea. I asked what people thought. You don't think it is necessary, leave it at that. You didn't just ask what people thought, you crafted it as if you thought it was extremely important. Why don't you respond to my retorts then?
Alright, I will put it in plain words so there is no confusion.
Do I think that using players' actual names is the difference in making eSports mainstream or not?
Of course not.
Do I think that not only the Korean commentators do use names, but that the society of Korea identifies players by their names instead of their tags?
Absolutely.
Do I think that we have things to learn from the Korean way of doing things?
Undoubtedly. They have had the most success in the world on making it mainstream. Why would we think it is a good idea to be pig-headed and think we have nothing to learn from them? I am not saying that this name idea is the final piece to the missing puzzle, but I think it's like StarCraft itself. You gain all of these little advantages which leads up to an overwhelming lead. If we do lots of things to make it more accessible to the general audience, such as using their names, (in addition to other things) do you not think that it will add up to our goal of making it in the limelight?
|
On March 02 2011 15:10 ScrapBrain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 15:05 Chill wrote:On March 02 2011 15:02 ScrapBrain wrote:On March 02 2011 13:34 Chill wrote:
Yes, and I agree. But do you think it's #1 on the long-list of things that need to happen before it booms (as the OP says) or #1000? I'm sorry, Chill, but where did I say that? I'm trying to be mannered, but do not put words in my mouth. There is much that could be done above using people's names, I admit. It is just one of the things I wanted to get opinions on. For someone who holds a certain level of power on these boards, I would have hoped you wouldn't put down false accusations and condemnation. "Real Names for eSports to Boom?" How should I interprit that? "Real Names [and 999 other more important things first] for eSports to Boom?"? It's amazing how because I bring up one topic for discussion, you assume it is the ONLY topic for discussion in my mind. If you look at what Korea does for their players and what the west does, we are getting closer to being similar. Obviously there are a lot of differences still and a long way to go. What I don't understand is why you are getting so infuriated that you are resorting to cursing (a lot by the way) on just an idea. I asked what people thought. You don't think it is necessary, leave it at that.
It's amazing how you post a thread focusing on the player names, and then get surprised when people aren't expecting you to talk about other things. The responses have been directed at the topic that was brought up, not the topic that was brought up, plus any other irrelevant idea that you may want to bring up.
Edit: Irrelevant in the sense that it doesn't pertain to the original topic, not that it isn't important on its own.
|
On March 02 2011 11:29 awu25 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 11:25 iamke55 wrote:
Ha ha I'm quite sure 100% of Koreans know how to pronounce Jaedong. lol you're right that was a bad example, but any gamer tag that's not their korean name, they would probably have trouble pronouncing or remembering since they probably don't know what they mean
if they made the name... i'm pretty sure they know what it means / how to pronounce it
and about using RL names.... a no from me for now since SC2 (to me) is still a game, which has avatars, and people communicate and participate through their respective avatar.
|
The ID tags or nicknames make the player more interesting. Do you ever wonder why singers, actors and actresses use screen names?
Barry Manilow - Barry Alan Pincus
Demi Moore - Demetria Guynes
Woody Allen - Allen Konigsberg
Michael Caine - Maurice Micklewhite
Just examples. :D
|
Why is a Team Liquid admin arguing like this in a opinionated thread? Looks real professional.
User was warned for this post
|
On March 02 2011 15:33 Ventor wrote:
Why is a Team Liquid admin arguing like this in a opinionated thread? Looks real professional.
Probably because he is a person who also has opinions, and he uses the site like other people do.
|
Posting under a non-admin ID will probably give less of a bias toward his argument don't ya think? Derp.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On March 02 2011 15:09 hmsrenown wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2011 14:55 Sein wrote:On March 02 2011 11:46 don_kyuhote wrote:
I think there is an easy solution to make people call you by your real name.
Make your ID "gfkljwrdxk" Rofl, I've heard that if you try to enter a GSL qualifier with an obviously troll ID like that, they will make you change it. It would be absolutely hilarious to see a commentator trying to pronounce that though. I would pay to see that happen. It's hard to tell how much effect it has on the Korean pro scene, but I personally don't see a problem with just sticking to people's ID's at this point. Maybe if the SC2 pro scene outside of Korea becomes very big in the next couple of years, then we could start thinking about using their real names. Those Korean commentators actually do say "Greg Fields" instead of "IdrA" and "Jonathan" instead of "Jinro" by the way. If you also notice Greg Fields and Jonathan aren't common names over there either...and to be really frank, Greg Fields is such a commonplace name. I mean, Tyler can get by with his sweet last name of Wasieleski, but how does a name like Greg Fields just stick to English speaker's brains?
Most of those Korean names sound the same way ("commonplace") to the Koreans as Greg Fields does to the English speakers.
I don't think common sounding names will be much of an issue once people get used to it, but like I said, I don't see anything wrong with just using the player's ID's at this point and I don't think it's a change that should be anywhere near the foreign pro scene's top priorities.
|
On March 02 2011 15:33 Ventor wrote:
Why is a Team Liquid admin arguing like this in a opinionated thread? Looks real professional.
cause he cares, and he is right, the thread tittle and OP are worded in away that slightly over exaggerates things, not that it isn't a valid point.
so what's you're reason for that helpful and constructive on-topic post you fired out there
|
On March 02 2011 15:37 Ventor wrote:
Posting under a non-admin ID will probably give less of a bias toward his argument don't ya think? Derp.
I don't think people will go against their own beliefs just to agree with an admin if that is what you are suggesting... there is no benefit in it.
Edit: Either way, I don't think people who are so weak minded that they can't come up with their own argument should be a reason for someone to not use their "main" name on the forums.
|
On March 02 2011 15:37 Ventor wrote:
Posting under a non-admin ID will probably give less of a bias toward his argument don't ya think? Derp.
I want to make sure that I'm not being perceived as a troll, so I avoided posting this. But it really is astounding how an admin will blast a simple idea instead of just giving his opinion. It bothers me a lot how he put words into my mouth and used strong language. He has to understand that people will see that red name and have an automatic bias towards him, and more selfishly against me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
