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This thread is about discussing the interview, not about judging people who contribute way more to the community than you. If you have a valid criticism, make it, but if you're going to spew hate you will get banned. | ||
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Dental Floss
United States1015 Posts
On February 27 2011 05:50 TaKemE wrote: Why does this even matter? People who watch TB is because his fun and they dont care much about game knowledge other then the basic. I was only asking because it would shut-up people complaining that he doesn't know enough about the game in this thread. | ||
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resilve
United Kingdom678 Posts
On February 27 2011 05:59 Dental Floss wrote: I was only asking because it would shut-up people complaining that he doesn't know enough about the game in this thread. Equating game knowledge to casting is not a direct translation. In a tournament or live game setting you dont have time to rewind replays Day9 style to think about conceptual things. Someone who can generate excitment and entertainment while watching a game is just as valid to the community - sure their fans might be different to the super-high ranked and versed veteran analyst, but that doesn't mean either is better or worse. Both are equally valid sides of the same coin. I for one would LOVE to see TB cast live with Day9 - I dont think most people realise how perfect that would be. | ||
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Beefwipe
United Kingdom56 Posts
On February 27 2011 04:18 leakingpear wrote: Yeah this is my problem with it too, it sounds like an american comedian's impression of a british person, combine that with the liberal use of stereotypical 'british' language that no one actually uses and it becomes incredibly irritating as an actual english person. It's the general theme of his commentary being disingenuous at every point that irritates me and probably a lot of others. I actually think a geordie commentator would be hilarious however, so if TB wants to switch to being real and worked on his game knowledge instead of intentionally disregarding it, i'd probably be a big fan. Same this is my problem with him. He seems nice enough etc. etc. but as a brit myself I just find myself facepalming a lot of the time whenever he speaks. His voice is so over exaggerated. And on the topic of geordie commentary, being a southerner myself I would love it. The geordies I've spoke to are usually very blunt and honest, and I think they'd make very entertaining casters. | ||
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speedphlux
Bulgaria962 Posts
I like that CinicalBritt twat :D | ||
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Redmark
Canada2129 Posts
On February 27 2011 06:09 Beefwipe wrote: Same this is my problem with him. He seems nice enough etc. etc. but as a brit myself I just find myself facepalming a lot of the time whenever he speaks. His voice is so over exaggerated. http://www.youtube.com/user/ElectricalBeast It could be worse. I'm not British so I can't tell if TB's accent is realistic or not, but honestly it's not that bad. | ||
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imbs
United Kingdom320 Posts
On February 27 2011 06:06 resilve wrote: Equating game knowledge to casting is not a direct translation. In a tournament or live game setting you dont have time to rewind replays Day9 style to think about conceptual things. Someone who can generate excitment and entertainment while watching a game is just as valid to the community - sure their fans might be different to the super-high ranked and versed veteran analyst, but that doesn't mean either is better or worse. Both are equally valid sides of the same coin. I for one would LOVE to see TB cast live with Day9 - I dont think most people realise how perfect that would be. Surely it should be the game itself that generates the excitement for you? if you need a guy to scream at you before you think something that is goin on in a sc game is exciting then maybe watchin starcraft isn't for you? | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
Thank you for standing up by the way for Husky, people give him alot of crap. I haven't listened to him in awhile but he's a nice guy and he does love SC. You'd have to be blind to think otherwise. He's a good play by play and that's fine because you need that kind of people just like you need people like day9. Tb never had to go into sc2 but he did because he likes it. How is that bad? I don't understand why anyone could really dislike him unless you are just wanting to mock him. I am all for lighhearted mockery for everything and everyone so long as people realize it's all in good fun it's all good. Good interview I enjoyed it. Thank you very much ^^ | ||
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Gheed
United States972 Posts
On February 27 2011 06:12 imbs wrote: Surely it should be the game itself that generates the excitement for you? if you need a guy to scream at you before you think something that is goin on in a sc game is exciting then maybe watchin starcraft isn't for you? These are my thoughts. I'd rather just watch the game and have an artosis or a day9 give analysis that might not be immediately apparent to me. I don't need someone to tell me what I can already see. I just don't see a need for play by play myself, though others clearly do. | ||
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.Aar
2177 Posts
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Teton
France1656 Posts
Great interview, love TB <3 | ||
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Kahzaar
Sweden897 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On February 27 2011 06:12 imbs wrote: Surely it should be the game itself that generates the excitement for you? if you need a guy to scream at you before you think something that is goin on in a sc game is exciting then maybe watchin starcraft isn't for you? While this maybe goes for you and me, don't forget that a lot of ppl play casual and the caster yelling during exciting parts just adds something to it since even when they don't know perfectly whats going on, they feel the energy. If you say stuff like "don't watch starcraft then" is exactly the opposite of trying to make esport more widespread since its basicly "this is my little club and unless you do this and this you are not allowed". | ||
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Longshank
1648 Posts
On February 27 2011 07:03 Assirra wrote: While this maybe goes for you and me, don't forget that a lot of ppl play casual and the caster yelling during exciting parts just adds something to it since even when they don't know perfectly whats going on, they feel the energy. If you say stuff like "don't watch starcraft then" is exactly the opposite of trying to make esport more widespread since its basicly "this is my little club and unless you do this and this you are not allowed". It doesn't necessarily have to do with viewers being casual or not. Look at BW, most if not all those following the Korean BW scene would be considered pretty hardcore but they loved the excitement the Korean style of commentating added to the game. To me it's the opposite from what you say, I don't necessarily need a caster telling me what's going on, I got eyes to see with and know enough about the game to know and recognize the strats and whatnot on my own. But if someone can add energy and excitement to the game it's invaluable to me. | ||
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Rocor
United States55 Posts
Less trolling, more constructive criticism..it's the only way this thing is gonna grow and become legitimate. It's just amazing to hear TB talk about Husky versus the State of the Game guys discussing Husky. What a difference !! | ||
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On February 27 2011 06:12 imbs wrote: Surely it should be the game itself that generates the excitement for you? if you need a guy to scream at you before you think something that is goin on in a sc game is exciting then maybe watchin starcraft isn't for you? This is an interesting and rather odd thing to bring up honestly. I can understand people not liking pure play-by-play. I myself admit in the interview that were it logitistically possible, I would co-commentate 100% of the time with an analytical partner and focus purely on the play-by-play. What I am doing is not optimal, it is not what I should be doing, but I am left with little choice because on a logistical, practical and technical level, it is the lesser of two evils. It comes down to subjective preference, some prefer analysis, others prefer play-by-play, others prefer a mix. I don't like dubstep, doesn't mean it's an invalid form of music and people who like it are dumb or whatever. However what I cannot understand is the quoted attitude, because it doesn't gel with what actually happens in broadcast sports. Every broadcast sport I can think of has this. It is there for a reason, it heightens the drama, it conveys the passion, it enhances the viewing experience. I'd turn around and say to anyone that asks that question, well if you can't get along with that kind of commentary, maybe sports in general isn't for you? Professional sports commentators scream even more than I do and they are sometimes being paid millions a year to do it and those events are some of the most watched spectacles in the world. That is what broadcast sport is, that is what broadcast eSport should, in my opinion be. There is little reason to deviate from a proven formula. | ||
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Dragar
United Kingdom971 Posts
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Phayze
Canada2029 Posts
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vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
On February 27 2011 07:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: This is an interesting and rather odd thing to bring up honestly. I can understand people not liking pure play-by-play. I myself admit in the interview that were it logitistically possible, I would co-commentate 100% of the time with an analytical partner and focus purely on the play-by-play. What I am doing is not optimal, it is not what I should be doing, but I am left with little choice because on a logistical, practical and technical level, it is the lesser of two evils. It comes down to subjective preference, some prefer analysis, others prefer play-by-play, others prefer a mix. I don't like dubstep, doesn't mean it's an invalid form of music and people who like it are dumb or whatever. However what I cannot understand is the quoted attitude, because it doesn't gel with what actually happens in broadcast sports. Every broadcast sport I can think of has this. It is there for a reason, it heightens the drama, it conveys the passion, it enhances the viewing experience. I'd turn around and say to anyone that asks that question, well if you can't get along with that kind of commentary, maybe sports in general isn't for you? Professional sports commentators scream even more than I do and they are sometimes being paid millions a year to do it and those events are some of the most watched spectacles in the world. That is what broadcast sport is, that is what broadcast eSport should, in my opinion be. There is little reason to deviate from a proven formula. I don't think comparing to football, hockey or what have you is a fair comparison considering how different they are in terms of complexity. I am not a football fan, I pretty much only watch it when Sweden gets anywhere (lol) but I can easily watch it with Spanish commentators without feeling like I don't know what's going on. Scoring a goal from some ridiculous angle will look cool no matter how much anyone screams over it, hell, it'll look cool even if shit's muted. I suppose the same could apply to an archon toilet, baneling mines or such but when something that obvious isn't going on SC2 needs far more analysis than football ever will. Yes, I realize that general player analysis and discussion of their tactics/strategy is prevalent during downtime but it's often more about the commentator's opinion, after all a team doesn't necessarily have to change their tactics throughout a game, 4-3-3 (I believe that was a common formation..?) doesn't care about "early game" or "late game", so to speak. Starcraft 2 isn't the same. Even when (to the untrained eye) nothing is going on there's a fucking lot happening. Tech is being researched, economy is improving or being neglected in favour of army.. hell, macro is happening. A protoss warping in stalkers and building the occasional void ray/colossus and sitting on his arse isn't exciting to watch on its' own, but knowing that the zerg has to do something to prevent the 200/200 deathball, and he has to do it soon can be. I don't disagree with broadcaster's helping add excitement to sports (or e-sports for that matter), but I believe it is far more important to at least have some analysis in e-sports. Part of the reason I can watch Quake Live is the awesome commentary explaining just what the fuck is going on, while I would probably get bored of the incredible aim if after a game or two if that was all I understood. Feel like I'm going in circles here, but tl;dr SC2 can be exciting without analytical commentary, similar to any sport, but SC2 has a lot of potential to be more exciting when there is good analysis. Or even better, a mix of good play by play and analysis, though that's not always feasible. | ||
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Volume
United States104 Posts
So he doesn't know all the names of the plays in the playbook, whatever. That makes it really easy for newcomers of this expanding community. | ||
Daigomi
South Africa4316 Posts
On February 27 2011 07:50 TotalBiscuit wrote: This is an interesting and rather odd thing to bring up honestly. I can understand people not liking pure play-by-play. I myself admit in the interview that were it logitistically possible, I would co-commentate 100% of the time with an analytical partner and focus purely on the play-by-play. What I am doing is not optimal, it is not what I should be doing, but I am left with little choice because on a logistical, practical and technical level, it is the lesser of two evils. It comes down to subjective preference, some prefer analysis, others prefer play-by-play, others prefer a mix. I don't like dubstep, doesn't mean it's an invalid form of music and people who like it are dumb or whatever. However what I cannot understand is the quoted attitude, because it doesn't gel with what actually happens in broadcast sports. Every broadcast sport I can think of has this. It is there for a reason, it heightens the drama, it conveys the passion, it enhances the viewing experience. I'd turn around and say to anyone that asks that question, well if you can't get along with that kind of commentary, maybe sports in general isn't for you? Professional sports commentators scream even more than I do and they are sometimes being paid millions a year to do it and those events are some of the most watched spectacles in the world. That is what broadcast sport is, that is what broadcast eSport should, in my opinion be. There is little reason to deviate from a proven formula. I've come to realise recently that I don't care what the style of commentary is, as long as the commentator is good at what he does. You get great shoutcasters that hype me up during a game, and you get brilliant analytical commentators who point out things that I would not have picked up on my own. Either way, I don't care as long as they do their job well. I think you are a pretty good shoutcaster; unfortunately I saw your first broadcast a few days before you withdrew from SC2 casting for a bit so I never got to experience it too much. The only style of commentary I really dislike is when commentators seem to not take their job seriously. Perhaps that's part of growing up, but I'm no longer in commentators constantly making jokes and mucking around. I'd prefer to have the commentary more similar to sports commentary, professional and on point. This doesn't mean that jokes are not allowed, but jokes should not be the focus of the commentary. On February 27 2011 08:03 vyyye wrote: I don't think comparing to football, hockey or what have you is a fair comparison considering how different they are in terms of complexity. I am not a football fan, I pretty much only watch it when Sweden gets anywhere (lol) but I can easily watch it with Spanish commentators without feeling like I don't know what's going on. Scoring a goal from some ridiculous angle will look cool no matter how much anyone screams over it, hell, it'll look cool even if shit's muted. I suppose the same could apply to an archon toilet, baneling mines or such but when something that obvious isn't going on SC2 needs far more analysis than football ever will. Yes, I realize that general player analysis and discussion of their tactics/strategy is prevalent during downtime but it's often more about the commentator's opinion, after all a team doesn't necessarily have to change their tactics throughout a game, 4-3-3 (I believe that was a common formation..?) doesn't care about "early game" or "late game", so to speak. Starcraft 2 isn't the same. Even when (to the untrained eye) nothing is going on there's a fucking lot happening. Tech is being researched, economy is improving or being neglected in favour of army.. hell, macro is happening. A protoss warping in stalkers and building the occasional void ray/colossus and sitting on his arse isn't exciting to watch on its' own, but knowing that the zerg has to do something to prevent the 200/200 deathball, and he has to do it soon can be. I don't disagree with broadcaster's helping add excitement to sports (or e-sports for that matter), but I believe it is far more important to at least have some analysis in e-sports. Part of the reason I can watch Quake Live is the awesome commentary explaining just what the fuck is going on, while I would probably get bored of the incredible aim if after a game or two if that was all I understood. Feel like I'm going in circles here, but tl;dr SC2 can be exciting without analytical commentary, similar to any sport, but SC2 has a lot of potential to be more exciting when there is good analysis. Or even better, a mix of good play by play and analysis, though that's not always feasible. Simplistic sports being shoutcasted does not mean that more complex sports cannot be shoutcasted. I would argue that the speed at which the game moves determines how effective shoutcasting is, rather than the complexity of the game. For example, cricket is complex but also too slow to shoutcast. There's just nothing to shout about in the thirty seconds while the bowler walks back to his position. On the other hand, rugby is a fairly complex game tactically and strategically, but because of its speed shoutcasting and more analytical casting are both used. Obviously shoutcasting still depends on the skill of the caster. It takes no in-depth game knowledge to describe what the harvester count is or which units are being built. Khaldor is great at this. I never doubt what's going on in his games even though I only understand 80% of the commentary, because he constantly shows you what's happening. However, many shoutcasters only follow the armies manuevering and then I have no idea what's happening. Shoutcasting is fine as long as the caster allows you to do the strategic analysis by giving you all the information. | ||
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