EPTAre we too hard on cheese in SC2? - Page 4
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DoubleRainbow
Canada85 Posts
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SlapMySalami
United States1060 Posts
On February 19 2011 08:54 Trogdor wrote: I recently re-watched a video that I had forgotten about for years. The video shows Boxer doing one of the most famous rushes in SC history. It's funny how history repeats itself. I don't think I need to point out the striking similarity to the SC2 version of the same rush, which we all call "cheese". (me included). Are we just jaded to creative, non-standard play? Remember how exited you were when you saw a bunker rush for the first time in broodwar? Or when you first saw a proxy gateway in someone's base? When Huk made a mothership at MLG, it was a "crazy" move just to please the fans, because we had already assumed we knew what "standard" play was for protoss. I feel like the broodwar scene was not as quick to rule out the use of certain units as the sc2 scene is. It's just a thought. Maybe it's just cuz Boxer can do anything, and we won't call it cheese  can you post the most infamous and hated cheese videos of bw | ||
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universalwill
United States654 Posts
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brentsen
1252 Posts
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Chicane
United States7875 Posts
I can't say I watched too much Brood War in all fairness, nevertheless I think very crazy and unexpected all ins will still be considered entertaining, but when it becomes more of a surprise that a player plays standard, then I feel it will be looked down on. | ||
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
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nekuodah
England2409 Posts
On February 19 2011 12:13 Louuster wrote: How about this one? I wonder what the reaction would be if this happened in the gsl MKP vs nestea season 2? | ||
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DoubleRainbow
Canada85 Posts
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krazymunky
United States727 Posts
On February 19 2011 11:04 Mindcrime wrote: July didn't 6pool even once that series. :/ oops my mistake. not 6 pools. more like rush builds | ||
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BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
if bitbybitprime would win a GSL think of the ratings... I mean my god we would have to shut down the internet all together because of joy + Show Spoiler + NO! There is a difference between cheesy players and players who use cheese to throw their opponents off. THose cheesey players will never be hated on enough. Cheese does add a interesting component to the game but right now its just too easy to use. | ||
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TheRealPaciFist
United States1049 Posts
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Pseudo_Utopia
Canada827 Posts
Then again, when cheese is the most viable option, the game balancers are more to blame than those who pick up on that viability. But I don't think we're anywhere near this. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
 In all seriousness, there needs to be some distinction between cheese and... all the other things that could be mistaken for cheese. And that distinction is largely decided by the metagame. What I'm getting at is that when we talk about "cheese" we mean something unusually out of the normal style of play, usually a high risk, high reward play. If we're actually seeing as much so-called "cheese" as people think we are, then it's not cheese (at the current spot in game development) because there's clearly not a high enough risk for the majority of players to avoid it, whatever the reward. The question of whether spectators prefer short or long games is entirely different. A sunken bust isn't cheese, but ends a game quickly if it succeeds - and because people don't like short games, when Flash was doing this every game he got called cheesy and lame. But he was actually just... trying to win. | ||
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jombeeno
United States47 Posts
But the kicker here is "cheese" is usually defendable, therefore a successful cheese can be considered skillful in breaking the defense. IMO, there is nothing that you can not defend against right now in the game. Proper scouting and the right actions can defend anything. All in all, the reason cheese is frowned upon because we get frustrated when we lose to it and rightfully so. It is a stupid loss. However, stupid on the defenders part not recognizing it. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
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JerKy
Korea (South)3013 Posts
In SC2, the pathing is INCREDIBLE, and thus I feel exploiting cheese has become a lot easier. | ||
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chongu
Malaysia2579 Posts
On February 19 2011 12:34 DoubleRainbow wrote: Cheese makes games boring, and ruin the whole build up of a series/games. It is like watching a movie, and just having the main character get shot for no reason, and then the movie ends. It just ruins SC2 as a spectator sport because it just ends a game. On February 19 2011 13:13 DoubleRainbow wrote: Cheese makes games boring, and ruin the whole build up of a series/games. It is like watching a movie, and just having the main character get shot for no reason, and then the movie ends. It just ruins SC2 as a spectator sport because it just ends a game. Double posts make forums look idiotic, and ruins the impression of TL to newcomers. It is like watching a movie, and just having the main character say silly catch phrases over and over again. It just ruins TL as a community loving place because people find it pretty annoying. | ||
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Cofo
United States1388 Posts
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space_yes
United States548 Posts
On February 19 2011 12:40 SlapMySalami wrote: + Show Spoiler + On February 19 2011 08:54 Trogdor wrote: I recently re-watched a video that I had forgotten about for years. The video shows Boxer doing one of the most famous rushes in SC history. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jen46qkZVNI&feature=rec-LGOUT-real_rn-1r-8-HM It's funny how history repeats itself. I don't think I need to point out the striking similarity to the SC2 version of the same rush, which we all call "cheese". (me included). Are we just jaded to creative, non-standard play? Remember how exited you were when you saw a bunker rush for the first time in broodwar? Or when you first saw a proxy gateway in someone's base? When Huk made a mothership at MLG, it was a "crazy" move just to please the fans, because we had already assumed we knew what "standard" play was for protoss. I feel like the broodwar scene was not as quick to rule out the use of certain units as the sc2 scene is. It's just a thought. Maybe it's just cuz Boxer can do anything, and we won't call it cheese can you post the most infamous and hated cheese videos of bw Before Flash was the ultimate weapon he first became famous by cheesing Bisu out of an OSL: Game 1 + Show Spoiler + Game 2 + Show Spoiler + | ||
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