VoidRay/Colossus in PvZ - IMBALANCED! - Page 33

On February 17 2011 12:22 xbankx wrote:
I just saw this build die to mass muta in root invitational. Basically minigun went 2 stargate void ray into colossus off 2 base(expanding to 3rd when he had map control but it wouldnt even matter). Catz just saved up larva(like 20). Im not sure if Miningun scouted the spire but just because you see spire your not sure if zerg is going muta or corruptors you can't build pheonix blind. So he stayed with voids/colossus, 20 muta came at onces not 5-6 to show muta then allow minigun to switch to pheonix. And GGed minigun. The main thing I think catz did right is that toss don't know what is in egg and what you build spire for. Colossus+void ray is so high gas you have almost no stalker/sentry and void is terrible versus mutas. People should check out the replay. Minigun is of course one of the best toss in NA. Catz is a good creative zerg. Catz did everything right. He used the fact that zerg can "switch" army composition faster than any race since they are not restricted by unit producing building.

On February 17 2011 12:40 Beef Noodles wrote:

But don't you see that that is a "trick" strat? It isn't a standard build, or even a build that will work multiple times. It relies on the TOSS making a MISTAKE, not the zerg out playing them with a solid strat. Its a way to win, but not a real solution. If there is a way to somehow solve the build with mutas that doesn't rely on bad scouting/preparation from the toss, then I would be happy.

On February 17 2011 12:58 xbankx wrote:



I actually think it is quite solid. I mean minigun did everything right. He saw hydras with his void ray so he started colossus production. He cannoned front due to low gateway count. He didn't lose any void ray so he had like 5-6 void ray very fast. The thing is scouting a spire tell toss that you zerg is either gonig corruptors or mutas. BUilding pheonix blind is extremely risky since 2 base void/colo is extremely gas heavy. 2 pheonix could mean 1 less colossus or 1 less void rays. Catz played extremely well by producing the 20 muta at once to give no time for toss to respond. This is actually what I used to die to when I first got to decent diamond. I scout spire and start pheonix, but suddently like 12 eggs pop with roaches and rush my front. I just think this is definitely a good response to void/colo 2 base. Is it perfect and going to win everytime? of coruse not, but no build is perfect. Mutas do definitely counter both heavy hitter in the void/colo build.

On February 17 2011 13:11 PJA wrote:


This is mostly irrelevant, but:

Catz did not produce 20 muta at once. He produced a few at a time until he had 20. They had the production tab up the entire time.

I think that Catz' strategy would still work, though, if he had just killed the 5 void rays with his first 8-9 muta and hence not lost his 3rd base. The way he played in this particular game was much simpler, though, since he doesn't have to deal with the fact that he is close spawns on shakuras, which could be difficult even if he shuts down the first few voids but doesn't win immediately.

On February 17 2011 10:34 Azarkon wrote:
Please note that IdrA and Artosis were the ones who said that Mutas were once considered "imba" against Protoss until Protoss figured out the 6-gate push. .

On February 17 2011 13:25 Ribbon wrote:


But if Z can't figure out a counter to a build in 3 weeks, it's invincible.

Any Masters Zergs should switch to toss and just do this on the ladder until either they get invited to Blizzcon or they start losing.

People are assuming the toss player has infinity options, which is ludicrous. Contrary to Idra's belief, protoss units cost money.

I think this build can only really be solved by someone who understands the Zerg side AND the Protoss side at a high level. More realistically, all the teams in Korea right now have been getting their Zergs and their Protosses together and trying to figure this out in their Starcraft laboratories.

On February 17 2011 13:26 Azarkon wrote:
In which case Catz could've gone back to standard, since the "death ball" push won't be coming if he's spending his gas on 2 gate phoenixes.

The interaction between phoenix vs. muta, colossi vs. hydra, vr vs. corrupter, has hardly been worked out by this video. I agree with Tyler that the right way to present this strategy would've been to call for ideas and to spark a discussion, not deliver a verdict. What leaves a bitter taste in many people's mouths is the declaration that "Blizzard must change something" in order for this to be fixed. It's very much like putting the cart before the horse because before this week I didn't even hear about colossi/vr being considered "imbalanced."

On February 17 2011 13:26 Azarkon wrote:
In which case Catz could've gone back to standard, since the "death ball" push won't be coming if he's spending his gas on 2 gate phoenixes.

The interaction between phoenix vs. muta, colossi vs. hydra, vr vs. corrupter, has hardly been worked out by this video. I agree with Tyler that the right way to present this strategy would've been to call for ideas and to spark a discussion, not deliver a verdict. What leaves a bitter taste in many people's mouths is the declaration that "Blizzard must change something" in order for this to be fixed. It's very much like putting the cart before the horse because before this week I didn't even hear about colossi/vr being considered "imbalanced."

On February 17 2011 13:28 1Eris1 wrote:



Not exactly. He had to invest all his resources into mutalisks. If Minigun scouted it, he's not countered the mutalisks and can just use the phoenix to support the death push anyways. Catz can't simply go back to playing standard.

On February 17 2011 13:44 Jumbled wrote:
I saw someone earlier complain about this game being a scouting win. Games are and should be won by good scouting. Scouting and denying scouting better than your opponent is a big part of what being a good RTS player is all about.

On February 17 2011 12:02 Dark_Maverick wrote:
I think infestors would be great. As that infested terran can burn through voidrays. Yeah voidrays can 1 shot queens but 34 infested terran can insta kill voidrays for the cost of 4 early infestors!! maybe 5 for some fungals. Thats 5 larva and ~600-600 investment. Yes its micro but toss has ht's as well which ar ether euquavalent micro same with sentry's. I don't see why idra hasn't tried them as I really do think there just as powerful as the sentry and ht....
zerg are looking in the wrong direction i believe, and nothing is ever imba the game is pretty close to balanced.
infestors.... infestors........
its like the pvt terran bioball when the strat first came out toss sucked with ff but now they can deal with it because of a spellcaster and proper use of it. I don't think i've seen any zerg use infested terran before
come to think of it this strat is fairly new and may seem op but most likely isn't also like jinro' mech play. It may seem op for a week but once you find the apropriate units to deal with it then your good to go, because for me i can beat mech now because of hallucinate. I can hallucinate 15 more zealots and 5 more voidrays! soakcing up all that damage from the tanks and marines gives me enough time to kill him... lets go zerg think outside the massing box !!

On February 17 2011 14:05 Treemonkeys wrote:


Which still favors protoss, no? Observers, phoenix, overseers, hallucinate vs. overlords and overseers that are easier to spot and shoot down.