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Warning. Useless comments that are deemed to be flame/troll bait = ban. If you have criticism, thats fine but you better have amazing support to back up your opinion. Otherwise ban. | ||
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dark fury
Sweden426 Posts
On February 17 2011 06:40 Chaosvuistje wrote: No, collosi are mobile because they are fast. The fact that it walks cliffs just shortens the walking distance. Ok, next time a zerg players is complaining about hydras off-creep speed, im gonna tell them that they are fast. | ||
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hugman
Sweden4644 Posts
On February 16 2011 13:10 rS.Sinatra wrote:1) Day9 isn't code S, but I would take his word over Idra's any day of the week. I'm in Masters league and I would take my word over Idra's any day of the week too. Actually, I would take most Master league zerg's words over Idra's because Idra is so bias that I'd never be able to take anything he says without first really thinking of it. I would never accept Idra's advice without skepticism because of the way he presents his points. Is bias? Really? rofl | ||
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Amber[LighT]
United States5078 Posts
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Hing
Estonia26 Posts
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rycho
United States360 Posts
On February 17 2011 05:47 compscidude wrote: Or decrease the speed of colosuss, i cant believe that thing is faster than hydra. this is the kinda of stuff that i can't believe people post. this is just blatant misinformation and theres no excuse to post it in any starcraft 2 thread anywhere. i like this show a lot but it really seems to bring out the worst in people on the forums. | ||
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Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On February 17 2011 06:27 DoubleReed wrote: Void rays got a speed nerf in addition to the speed upgrade being removed, very recently too. I dont get why people think these two units are fast. Their advantage is being able to fly/walk over things not in their speed. Do some comparisons, they are slow.Gateway units are mobile man. Stalkers are mobile. Zealots are cheap and can get warped in where-ever, so not a big deal. If there was any colossus nerf impending, it should be a speed nerf if anything. It's certainly expensive and fragile enough to justify its damage. But how mobile it is? I don't know about that. The exact same thought process works for void rays, and they got their speed upgrade removed. | ||
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Shadrak
United States490 Posts
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Ballistixz
United States1269 Posts
On February 17 2011 06:58 rycho wrote: this is the kinda of stuff that i can't believe people post. this is just blatant misinformation and theres no excuse to post it in any starcraft 2 thread anywhere. i like this show a lot but it really seems to bring out the worst in people on the forums. its not that it brings out the worst in people, its just that it gives bronze level players the opportunity to argue and flame professional players as if they actually know more then a player that plays 12+ hours a day every day. its amazing how many people have no idea what they are talking about. "idra and artosis are biased, just mass mutas and it beats this easy hurpdurptrololol" its kinda hard to not call these kinds of ppl retarded. idra practices insane ammounts of games a day and you really think he has tried every build possible to try and beat this INCLUDING mutas? like really... and going on more into the "just mass muta" thing people need to understand how gas heavy mutas are. not only that but mutas are night a fighting unit, they CANNOT engage any army and expect to come out on top. the only thing you will be doing with those mutas is harass, and you better make sure its DAMN GOOD harass. | ||
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Fredoq
Sweden206 Posts
On February 17 2011 05:25 kickinhead wrote: Hell no! Sair/Reaver required a lot of Multitasking, good Micro, very high APM and even the tiniest mistake cost you the game - The sc2 deathball is very easy to execute. True, but i dident say that they are the exact same thing i said that they were similar. :D | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On February 17 2011 07:00 Vimsey wrote: Void rays got a speed nerf in addition to the speed upgrade being removed, very recently too. I dont get why people think these two units are fast. Their advantage is being able to fly/walk over things not in their speed. Do some comparisons, they are slow. Colossi just look faster because of their size and animation. I think VRs are considered mobile in the sense that they can go in straight lines to get anywhere. In battle though Colossi don't feel slow in the sense that they can position/reposition well in battle. Hydras are called slow off creep because in battle they're unable to chase units down, flank, retreat, or get a good arc which are all things you would want to do with a hydra if you could. I guess the way to put it is that colossi don't feel very limited by their speed while hydras off creep do. Still doesn't change the fact they are the same speed, but that's why people think that way I think. | ||
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DamnCats
United States1472 Posts
Theorycrafting about mutalisks is all fine and dandy but I think you could shut most of us whiney zerg up by simply finding and posting that replay. Because that would at least show me personally (and all the other zergs whining in this thread) that while I lose my entire army to kill 3 units, that may not be the case for better players and it really is just a skill thing. So that is your challenge my minions, find that replay! *OR IS IT? | ||
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rycho
United States360 Posts
yes, colossus and void rays can go through cliffs, but so can any air unit. in addition, the balance concern seems to be about the group of units being unbeatable as a whole, so it doesn't really do you a whole lot of good to run your colossus up a cliff if it means the rest of your army can't come. i'm not saying that this strategy is fair (or that it is unfair, i don't really care or think i'm knowledgeable enough to comment) just that when playing this way as protoss, i certainly never feel like i have a lot of map control or army mobility. i basically am forced to keep all my units in a ball and move slowly around the map. i really wonder, to all the people that think this is a mobile army composed of mobile units, what exactly are you comparing this to? the only less mobile army composition i can think of is seige tanks. | ||
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ChApFoU
France2982 Posts
On February 16 2011 09:08 FlashtehKira wrote: thanks Artosis,but remember PvT more imbalanced than PvZ. phoenix+colossus more scary than void+colossus. May God hear you brotha ! I just got atrociously raped by a phoenix/colo/abitofeverything deathball, and for once my macro wasn't too crappy ... Sigh, I'm too old for this shit T_T; | ||
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compscidude
176 Posts
Protoss can defend on 2 base for as long as they want, and spam cannons everywhere. but once they have 200/200, its generally game over. Blizzard needs to rework the ability for workers to mine minerals they should have at max, 1.5 workers to effectively mine as it was the case for SC. 2.5 ~ 3 Workers per patch is totally unreasonable and unfair to Zerg's ability to expand quickly. We are not able to harvest minerals effectively due to ealy pressure and so on. even if we stop the pressure, protoss is still ahead because they have no need to expand this early, while still gaining maximum mineral gain from their one bas. | ||
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Kazang
578 Posts
On February 17 2011 07:15 rycho wrote: i really wonder, to all the people that think this is a mobile army composed of mobile units, what exactly are you comparing this to? the only less mobile army composition i can think of is seige tanks. It's mobile in comparison to it's damage. Generally it should be the more damage and power a unit has the slower, less mobile or more fragile it gets. Thors, siege tanks, battlecruisers are all very slow or immobile in exchange for their massive damage potential. Broodlords and the only slow high damage unit in the zerg arsenal and they are very slow. BL are the colossus of zerg, long range, area effect damage. BL mobility is a joke compared to colossus. 2 Voidrays do higher damage than a BC and move faster, Colossus are like flying siege tanks. VR/Colossus is very mobile for the damage it inflicts and how physically tough it is, they have a ton of HP backing up all that damage. | ||
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Supah
708 Posts
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AzureD
United States320 Posts
It is not a pure hard counter but more of a soft counter in my eyes. Also this Void Ray + Colossus death ball seems really immobile. How does it deal with Zergling counter attacks? That is the weakness of death balls. It is weak to counter attacks from fast units. | ||
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xbankx
703 Posts
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On February 17 2011 07:59 Supah wrote: Colossus/VR deathball takes a long time to get off the ground, doesn't it? This is like the reverse situation of an early expo Muta/Ling from Zerg- hit before it happens. There's a huge window between VR/Phoenix harass before the Toss can transition into Colossus. It's a snowballing build, and trading armies at any point up to the deathball puts the Toss way, way behind. You cannot compare attacking a Zerg going for a Muta-Build with the VR/Collo-Deathball, because: - MutaLing needs at least three bases to get into full swing, Deathball only 2. 2 bases are much easier to defend than 3, especially on certain Maps/Positions, where it's very hard to get a third. - MutaLing leaves open huge timings for the opponent to attack before the Mutas get out, a Deathball playing defensively on 2 bases absolutely cannot be attacked by a Zerg. Roach-timings get raped by VR's, Hydras are so slow it's almost impossible to attack with them and if they do, they get raped by Collos and Speedling-counters are out of the question as well. - You can't even cheese the Protoss, cuz every Toss that scouts and reacts well pwns 6-/7- and 10-pools, theres no real way to abuse burrow with roaches/infestors, cuz there will be defensive cannons up and if you try and go for Mutas, the Protoss cut's Collo/VR-Production and switches to Phoenix/Stalker, so that's out of the question as well. It's pretty much the safest build Protoss can do against Zerg and the strongest as well. The only reason why I wouldn't play it, is because it WILL get nerfed very soon (either by a Collo/VR-nerf or by a Corruptor-buff most likely), so playing this build will get you very easy wins, but it's so easy to play you won't learn anything from playing it. (I train with some Zerg that are much higher in the Ladder and I beat them offracing Protoss almost every game with this build) - MutaLing does well harrassing the opponent but looses in a straight-up fight, the Deathball does exactly the opposite. This means that even if you harrass the Toss to death, he can just leave the base and kill you. | ||
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ribboo
Sweden1842 Posts
On February 17 2011 07:59 Supah wrote: Colossus/VR deathball takes a long time to get off the ground, doesn't it? This is like the reverse situation of an early expo Muta/Ling from Zerg- hit before it happens. There's a huge window between VR/Phoenix harass before the Toss can transition into Colossus. It's a snowballing build, and trading armies at any point up to the deathball puts the Toss way, way behind. yes, lets walk off-creep all the way from my base to ur base with hydras, without a slight chance to get reinforcements there or any chance to pull back, and if the attack fails, im dead. it can work, but it's extremely risky. not I will 6 gate to stop mutas risky, not even close. | ||
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