EPThttp://blog.sc-streams.com/?p=48
Stream cheating - Page 8
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Desti
Germany138 Posts
http://blog.sc-streams.com/?p=48 | ||
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flyersa
Germany141 Posts
We stresstested our delay feature on last sundays craftcup king of the month tournament where we force a 3 minute delay for the streams and it was running smooth on all streams for 5+ hours or so. We want to provide a delayed restream feature for all rtmp capable streamproviders on the craftcup website as a service soon. | ||
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idonthinksobro
3138 Posts
The players should have the right to say that they dont want their game castet in any tournament. User was warned for this post | ||
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Special Endrey
Germany1929 Posts
 its a circle Players -> Casters -> Viewers -> Sponsors -> Prizemoney -> Players u mess with one thing it goes down the road - and yeah im talk about those weekly tournaments - have run those a replay based cast will just no work out becasue its just too much work to sort eve´rything out - and i as a caster casted SOOO many games and tours live - only had the suspicion of like twice in about 3000 games so yeah i dont really care and yeah the possibilty to delay the stream is there aswell | ||
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Taf the Ghost
United States11751 Posts
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Special Endrey
Germany1929 Posts
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Loomies
United States645 Posts
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DeLoAdEr
Japan527 Posts
On February 08 2011 12:04 Liquid`Tyler wrote: I'm not sure if this counts as a solution since it uses a local network and 2 PC's, but I was able to set up a delay by doing the following: The computer that is in-game records screen and saves to an .flv file on its hard drive in a folder that is shared over a local network. A second computer on the local network opens the .flv file 10 minutes later and streams (to ustream, jtv, etc) a media player playing the file. As long as the first computer keeps writing the file, the second computer will keep on playing it. In other words, the video doesn't simply stop when it gets through the data the file had when it was opened. It keeps on streaming. Disk space isn't a concern because the video is compressed so you can stream at 720p while using up ~1GB/hour or less. I remember there was a similar discussion thread for TSL2 and someone suggested this but it was dismissed for reasons I dont remember... If something simple like this would work, why the hell isn't every caster doing this already? :/ | ||
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myk3
Austria80 Posts
Its retarded that most tournaments allow the people to stream their games - and its even worse that "cash-hungry hookers" known as casters are allowed to stream games live and in HD. Its basically a free maphack and anyone can use it I am really surprised that there is so much discussion about the possibility of using the stream as kind of maphack - but no discussion about actual map hacks, which obviously exist and, because of the rich community of people hacking blizzard games since a decade or so, won´t stop existing in the near future, i guess. I certainly don´t want to encourage people to just google and get themselves a maphack, but at least people who organize tournaments and stuff should be aware of the possibilities, which would let players get an unfair advantage over their opponents. Of course a smart maphacker/stream listener can make it look as if he wasn´t cheating, which imho is the biggest problem. For example you dont have to have your map revealed - you just have to know your opponents production tab to know that there might be a drop coming soon. Being just prepared for the right thing will make you look good without really raising suspicions - you dont have to run your army cross map to deny a medivac, if you have 2 queens waiting for it at home you are fine aswell. The point i´m trying to make (and i didn´t really until now) is - In any online tournament there WILL always be someone cheating. Be it for the price money, be it for the fame, be it for whatever reason. The mindset is: "If i can get an advantage, why shouldn´t I". Morale and ethics dont apply when you are an anonymous name amongst thousands in some online game. The argument that players who get caught cheating would be disqualified from further events only applies to reknown top players - any no-name who wants to keep going will change his name and - keep going. Enough of that. @ OP - There is _no_ way to make sure players aren´t cheating. Delaying Streams about 5+ minutes will help alot against that really easy abuse of commentators who are so naive to think people wouldn´t take the opportunity. But other than that only LAN prevents cheating effectively. Just my 2 cents, please excuse my english :> | ||
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Zentakki
Spain1 Post
 The only answer I see it's full access to player's computer by an administrator of the tournament via remote-control without causing lag. Or recording with procaster or any software similar every players computer and after send de recordings to an administrator. Otherwise, like has been said, if cheating is allowed, we can't trust in players honesty, someone is going to cheat. | ||
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Shameless
Netherlands349 Posts
So, i'm not accusing anyone, but if i was Mana in that game i would have never let those guys in in the first place. | ||
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kAra
Germany1387 Posts
On February 08 2011 20:25 Shameless wrote: Few weeks ago i was watching Mana's stream while he was in some tournament, he was really on a roll and went through the brackets like a truck. Then he ran into some guy from aAa that asked if it was ok if some streamers joined. So suddenly he had 3 aAa observers in his game, i went to get a drink and make a quick phonecall, when i got back he already lost... So, i'm not accusing anyone, but if i was Mana in that game i would have never let those guys in in the first place. that sounds VERY suspicious - mana cant lose to some aaa scrubs ! | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 08 2011 12:04 Liquid`Tyler wrote: I'm not sure if this counts as a solution since it uses a local network and 2 PC's, but I was able to set up a delay by doing the following: The computer that is in-game records screen and saves to an .flv file on its hard drive in a folder that is shared over a local network. A second computer on the local network opens the .flv file 10 minutes later and streams (to ustream, jtv, etc) a media player playing the file. As long as the first computer keeps writing the file, the second computer will keep on playing it. In other words, the video doesn't simply stop when it gets through the data the file had when it was opened. It keeps on streaming. Disk space isn't a concern because the video is compressed so you can stream at 720p while using up ~1GB/hour or less. I was actually thinking this would be a way more practical solution that gets built into the streaming software. I think it would be much more resource efficient to temporarily save the data to the streamers hard drive then send it all the the website as a "live" feed, just delayed. That way the site isn't forced to hold an enormous 10 minute buffer, which I image would really stress servers. I like the way you rigged it up though, but I imagine there is a much more practical way that it can be done for everyone with a single computer. The only thing I was really worried about was read/write speeds on standard hard drives. They might get stressed really hard by reading and writing a ton of data simultaneously for hours. Although, I guess with an SSD that wouldn't be a problem at all. | ||
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PepperoniPiZZa
Sierra Leone1660 Posts
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TotalBiscuit
United Kingdom5437 Posts
On February 08 2011 19:17 idonthinksobro wrote: its retarded that most tournaments allow the people to stream their games - and its even worse that "cash-hungry hookers" known as casters are allowed to stream games live and in HD. Its basically a free maphack and anyone can use it, as long you arent totally retarded e.g, the caster says huge as drop on the left and you suddenly move all your army from the middle of the map back to defend that drop. But even early game and only hearing what he is going to do will help you way too much, "oh he is one rax expanding allin incoming". The players should have the right to say that they dont want their game castet in any tournament. You are everything that's wrong with the Starcraft 2 community, I just want to point that out. I can't help but think that 'U jelly?'. Think I'm over-reacting? No, absolutely not. Good luck getting pro players paid without casters. Good luck getting an audience of any description without casters. See these 4 things? Players Sponsors Casters Viewers Take any one of those away and you have no pro-scene. You can quibble over which is more or less important than the other but it won't make any difference because without any one element of that, the pro-scene ceases to exist. Your attitude is not only ignorant, but toxic to the community and for the record, if I wanted to be a 'cash hungry hooker', I'd do an hour of DC Universe in 3 parts, not 5 hours of Starcraft 2 without a break until I threw up at the end from sheer exhaustion. I'd get paid more that way. In short, go away. User was warned for this post | ||
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shaaw
Spain97 Posts
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
On February 08 2011 01:26 Liquid`Tyler wrote: Joined TL.net Saturday, 20th of March 2010 I think that explains that! You have some bold opinions for how little you know. I think he meant any logical player who is playing LAN's often, would not want to take the chance to risk it.. thats not saying it hasnt happened in the past, cause it certainly has.. but to the majority of players, I doubt they would be that stupid. (iccup/ladder abusing is still lame as hell, but not as bad as stream watching.. thats almost as bad as maphacking) | ||
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AgentSmax
Slovenia26 Posts
On February 08 2011 22:47 shaaw wrote: what do u think guys of casting tournaments entirely from replays? That would be an option with the "watch a replay in group featured" ? Nah... It's good but not the same. Watching games while they happen live is much better. Stream delay is the perfect fix to disable cheating on stream. And I'd think if it's obvious that players are cheating they would get penalized one way or the other. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On February 08 2011 20:31 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I was actually thinking this would be a way more practical solution that gets built into the streaming software. I think it would be much more resource efficient to temporarily save the data to the streamers hard drive then send it all the the website as a "live" feed, just delayed. That way the site isn't forced to hold an enormous 10 minute buffer, which I image would really stress servers. I like the way you rigged it up though, but I imagine there is a much more practical way that it can be done for everyone with a single computer. The only thing I was really worried about was read/write speeds on standard hard drives. They might get stressed really hard by reading and writing a ton of data simultaneously for hours. Although, I guess with an SSD that wouldn't be a problem at all. The simultaneus reading and writing will definatly be a problem for normal HDDs. SSDs might work, though a RAID setup might improve the performance, too. A big problem should be the on-the-fly encoding of the flash files while still having the game open and lots of action going on, it requires quite a powerfull PC. You could use a capture card on the second PC, capture the output of the first and do the encoding/streaming there. For 10 minutes delay a PC with 2-4GB ram should even be able to keep the encoded file in memory if you write to new files every ~30 minutes and delete the old ones, removing the need for expensive SSDs or RAID systems. Hmm.... maybe i should start developing a "streaming box" that does all that as a black box, you just buy it, plug a VGA/DVI/HDMI cable in, configure your stream, configure delay and it works automagically :p | ||
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shaaw
Spain97 Posts
On February 08 2011 22:56 AgentSmax wrote: Nah... It's good but not the same. Watching games while they happen live is much better. Stream delay is the perfect fix to disable cheating on stream. And I'd think if it's obvious that players are cheating they would get penalized one way or the other. I mean as a temporal solution until we get a way to dalay the stream in some way. Just like they stream semis and finals of TLOpen. | ||
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