EPTCan anyone shed some light on this?
[February] SC2 General Discussion - Page 2
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lanstro
Australia3 Posts
Can anyone shed some light on this? | ||
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VenerableSpace
United States463 Posts
On February 07 2011 01:19 ShatterZer0 wrote: What is the appropriate response to early zergling pressure as Protoss player? In context, this would be a Protoss player scouting with his 9 supply probe and finding the Zerg player doing something like a 13 pool into expand. How can I, as the Protoss player, take advantage of the Zerg's early pressure? Any quick warp gate strategy is basically negated by early speedlings, and a 3 gate expand is put under serious flak by speedlings and possible roach pushing. How can fight this correctly? 3 gate expand (1 zealot + sentries) into forge, while getting stalkers. 1-2 cannons at expo with more if needed. sentry/stalker with a couple zealots can take on speedlings really well with forcefields, especially if he's the one commiting. if he skips roaches then it could be ling muta and i would throw down more gates do a +1 timing attack. otherwise poke around and force units while macroing yourself into collosus/stalker/sentry. | ||
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Ex_Matt
Canada84 Posts
Would a movement speed buff be asking too much?? | ||
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57 Corvette
Canada5941 Posts
On February 07 2011 12:53 VenerableSpace wrote: 3 gate expand (1 zealot + sentries) into forge, while getting stalkers. 1-2 cannons at expo with more if needed. sentry/stalker with a couple zealots can take on speedlings really well with forcefields, especially if he's the one commiting. if he skips roaches then it could be ling muta and i would throw down more gates do a +1 timing attack. otherwise poke around and force units while macroing yourself into collosus/stalker/sentry. Is there any specific build order, or a liquipedia article on this 3gate sentry expand? I've been hearing a lot about it but I have never actually learned the build order. | ||
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Let it Raine
Canada1245 Posts
GSL has their own maps, blizzard is releasing their own new maps as seen in the PTR and of course, ICCUP maps are fairly popular in online tournaments. | ||
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Thrax
Canada1755 Posts
I expect after a while that tournaments will mostly standardize around specific maps that are pretty popular and assumed as balanced. In all this, I think what I'm most worried about is definitely how hard it will be to find opponents to play these new maps. The ladder system makes it very easy to find players for the Blizzard map pool but there is not equivalent for custom maps (yet... I hope) We'll have to see how this develops I think. | ||
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teh_longinator
Canada725 Posts
On February 07 2011 13:40 Let it Raine wrote: What does everyone think about the millions of maps right now? GSL has their own maps, blizzard is releasing their own new maps as seen in the PTR and of course, ICCUP maps are fairly popular in online tournaments. I actually think that Blizzard should have just found a way to use the ones that are being released for the GSTL. I love the look of those maps. But again, until I have a chance to play on them, I can't say too much. However, I think that it should greatly improve the amount of balance that is being seen in the current map pool (Blistering Sands, Steppes, Jungle Basin, and Delta come to mind) | ||
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Mentymion
Germany259 Posts
The Offical reasoning behind the 45HP Marine + 10HP Combatshields was to make the Marines more effective during mit to late games, but the point is they already were good in these situations. Do they rly need those additional 5HP right at the start ? I would rather prefer a vanilla Marine with 40 HP + 15 HP Combat Shield Upgrade because that sounds more reasonable to me than the old shit. I was begging so long for this change but it never ever has appeared in the patch logs. Replays of pros always supported my Idea cuz Marine/hellions pushes are so damn strong, Zealots & Zerglings needed an additional swipe to kill the Marine,list goes on... I was even laughing hardcore where you, Jinro, actually won the last game against IdrA where he tried to 6 pool you and you built that bunker in your mineral line and got that 5HP Marine into that bunker in the very last second. Artosis even mentioned that IdrA had analysed your scouting pattern on that map and IdrA was sending his Zerglings around your scouting route....well IdrA gg'ed after the Marine was safe. I'am the only one who thinks that this 45HP Marine is to strong in beginng or do you guys think that the Zealot need his former self back ? | ||
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da_head
Canada3350 Posts
On February 07 2011 22:27 Mentymion wrote: I still don't get it why the Marines start with 45HP while other starting units have excatly the same stats as in bw. Nothing has changed for the Zerglings and Zealots even got nerfed from 100HP/60Shields to 100HP/50Shields cuz of the improved Shields reg. to compensate that. (As a Protoss player myself i must say that this improved Shield reg. is so damn stupid cuz it never actually had that much of an impact on my games. All I can do is simply to attack move with them and hope that they dont get shredded to pieces cuz retreating with Zealots on Creep/against Speedlings or Stalkers + Marines with Stim or Marauders with Concussive......its always the dead end for a zealot so this improved Shield reg is kinda non effective....but well....) The Offical reasoning behind the 45HP Marine + 10HP Combatshields was to make the Marines more effective during mit to late games, but the point is they already were good in these situations. Do they rly need those additional 5HP right at the start ? I would rather prefer a vanilla Marine with 40 HP + 15 HP Combat Shield Upgrade because that sounds more reasonable to me than the old shit. I was begging so long for this change but it never ever has appeared in the patch logs. Replays of pros always supported my Idea cuz Marine/hellions pushes are so damn strong, Zealots & Zerglings needed an additional swipe to kill the Marine,list goes on... I was even laughing hardcore where you, Jinro, actually won the last game against IdrA where he tried to 6 pool you and you built that bunker in your mineral line and got that 5HP Marine into that bunker in the very last second. Artosis even mentioned that IdrA had analysed your scouting pattern on that map and IdrA was sending his Zerglings around your scouting route....well IdrA gg'ed after the Marine was safe. I'am the only one who thinks that this 45HP Marine is to strong in beginng or do you guys think that the Zealot need his former self back ? Even though marines' have 5 more hp than their bw counterpart, i don't think that's the main issue. The main issue is that their dps is SOO much higher. Add hold micro and stim, and it gets to the point of being ridiculous. | ||
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TeChNiQe
Germany1 Post
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Lunat!c
122 Posts
On February 07 2011 23:21 TeChNiQe wrote: I think protoss players wont have that much probs on the new maps but terra will still dominate. Is it an acknowledged fact that terran is dominating or feels a bit too strong?! If I see them against Z on certain maps the mu looks really broken. | ||
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SeakayKu
United States128 Posts
This 3k game played toss and still managed to have win ratio 60%+ is beastly I have always wondered if I am going to see this guy in major tourney's But... nope... can't find it... | ||
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crfty
United States174 Posts
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
Looks like guy above me has the same problem. The server status thread says it's up though. | ||
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crfty
United States174 Posts
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JWill
Canada52 Posts
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DeaTh-ShiNoBi
United States21 Posts
On February 07 2011 01:19 ShatterZer0 wrote: What is the appropriate response to early zergling pressure as Protoss player? In context, this would be a Protoss player scouting with his 9 supply probe and finding the Zerg player doing something like a 13 pool into expand. How can I, as the Protoss player, take advantage of the Zerg's early pressure? Any quick warp gate strategy is basically negated by early speedlings, and a 3 gate expand is put under serious flak by speedlings and possible roach pushing. How can fight this correctly? There's a lot that you can do if a Zerg opts to open with early Zergling pressure. The first thing that I'll have you note is that it doesn't actually "negate quick warpgate strategies" as you say. The truth is, the slower a Zerg gets their expo up, the harder it's going to be for them to hold off any sort of aggression that you deal. It really depends on what kind of damage he can do with his speedlings, which really should be none at all. There's a reason why opening with speedling pressure against Protoss is not standard. It really can't do much to a walled in Protoss. That being said, I'm not actually a fan of early warpgate attacks such as the infamous 4 warpgate rush. Thankfully(!) there are plenty of options that you can do instead. For example, if he wants to open with speedling pressure and you opened with a forge expansion, he shouldn't be able to do much damage with well placed buildings. This will put him very far behind. I usually opt for that opening. Other openings are 3 warpgate sentry expand, as others have said. Note that with a 3 warpgate sentry expand, you really should not make a forge and cannons because you can hold off aggression pretty easily, so cannons are just wasted money. Investing in the forge and cannons would essentially kill the point of making the 3 warpgates, so you might as well have gone Nexus first if you wanted the forge with cannons. If you enjoy stargate aggression, speedling pressure openings are something that you really would rather see than not see because that means that with the slower expansion, they will not have more than 2 queens (if that even). They won't be teching because they're investing their money in aggression and an expansion, teching as well would only be suicide. They likely won't have their main connected to their natural because they need as many larva as they can get to support speedlings, especially when considering their slower expansion. A Dark Templar opening could be potentially very effective too. It's highly unlikely that he would decide to build a spore crawler unless he really smells DTs coming like NesTea did in season 2 against MC (though I highly doubt that you play against Zergs that are as good as NesTea). Again, like I've said before, he should not have been teching so he won't be able to make an overseer. Just remember that if he can't get into your base with the speedlings and deal damage, then he's behind simply due to his costly opening. All that a speedling pressure opening would negate is any form of 2-gate zealot or 2-gate stalker opening pre-warpgate tech. If you were planning that before the game and you see 14 gas 13 pool or something like that, you'll probably do better not to continue with your 2-gate strategy. | ||
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On February 07 2011 23:03 da_head wrote: Even though marines' have 5 more hp than their bw counterpart, i don't think that's the main issue. The main issue is that their dps is SOO much higher. Add hold micro and stim, and it gets to the point of being ridiculous. I know their normal dps is higher, but if im not mistaken they were nerfed in the stim department. Stim in BW increased the DPS more then it does now. | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
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LesPhoques
Canada782 Posts
On February 07 2011 09:33 Reborn8u wrote: What do you feel the best answer to late game mass thor (10+) is in pvt? Immortals and voids get crushed by them, I am thinking colossus plus storm w/ chargelot + stalker. Should I include a few immortals though? Maybe a few voids to abuse the long AA cooldown of thors? What proportions and mix is optimal? Is there a better composition for dealing with this? Since you have probably done more experimentation with high level mech in pvt than most, I figured you would know what beats it. I know using prisms to harass is a good idea to abuse the immobility, but when them thors come a knockin at my front door how do I beat them back in a direct confrontation and how does my composition need to change to account for things like MM, or starport units being mixed in? Archon toilet ... if you think I am trolling, I am masters protoss player. Lots of players underestimate Mothership, its really good, its best unit for me. I use it in PvP and PvT and barely lost macro games. If its not that late, colossi with thermal lance and some meatshield to absorb damage (I'd recommend zealots because of their cost, wouldn't recommend immortals due to their mobility and u can just make Colossi out of your robotics). Also mass thor lacks mobility so abuse warp prism play | ||
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