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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On December 30 2010 05:21 Denzil wrote: I'm pretty sure all GSL Zergs have practiced what to do when you're at a deficit from cheese. And now they're practicing how to not reach such a deficit in the first place. That, and ramp blocks will be patched by then. | ||
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Numy
South Africa35471 Posts
On December 30 2010 05:23 FabledIntegral wrote: That, and ramp blocks will be patched by then. Well to my knowledge it needs 3 pylons not 2 in new patch. Will this be a massive change? | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On December 30 2010 05:24 Numy wrote: Well to my knowledge it needs 3 pylons not 2 in new patch. Will this be a massive change? Yeah, actually quite a large change. 100 minerals early game is huge. Often you barely have 200 minerals to wall-off originally, since you typically have to build both pylons simultaneously. If you have to build 3 pylons simultaneously (otherwise he just sends drones down the ramp), I would assume your forge would noticeably be delayed, or if you built the forge first then your 3 pylons delayed, etc. This is theorycraft, however, I haven't played PTR. I'm also wondering if the surface area of one of the pylons might be larger to the point you could break it easier with an additional drone attacking it. At the very least, it would require a larger investment by the Protoss for the same yield, making it more of an all-in play. | ||
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Jermstuddog
United States2231 Posts
On December 30 2010 05:24 Numy wrote: Well to my knowledge it needs 3 pylons not 2 in new patch. Will this be a massive change? It makes pylon blocking ramps a little bit less awesome but still completely viable. Oddly enough, I have been doing an evo chamber+ spine crawler ramp block to protect against early hellion raids, so this change is actually a nerf to my ZvT game... | ||
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DamnCats
United States1472 Posts
IdrA ladders to practice, why would he stick around an extra 10 minutes in a game where he gets cannon contained when he most likely will lose unless the protoss fucks up? The worst is it's 10 minutes of knowing you're fucked anyways. Honestly I have 100x more fun laddering when I time my gg's to right around the point I feel like IdrA would gg. To me the 1 percent chance I would somehow pull a win out of my ass (from them running 100 marines into 2 banelings or something) is not worth the other 99 times I get outmacroed and fisted like a two dollar hooker after I get crippled by an early game push.* So if any other zergs get super pissed off laddering all the time just ask yourselves: WWID? edit: *or crippled by the protoss player building 3 buildings outside my ramp. Most ridiculously low risk easy to pull off bunch of shit I've ever seen. In fact if I'm not in the mood I will just straight up leave games when they get the pylons up (if i fuck up my drone micro or something). | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
On December 30 2010 05:24 Numy wrote: Well to my knowledge it needs 3 pylons not 2 in new patch. Will this be a massive change? I think people will still do it, unfortunately. +100 extra mineral can surely be spent when you already throw down 200, and each cannon costs 150 minerals as it is. However, I think it will take a much more dedicated form than now. Right now it's mostly containing Zerg while building forces or expanding at home, but when you need to spend 300 minerals for blocking you might as well fortify that with cannons and quick units. People will figure out a build (cutting probe production and all that) that will end game right there. What will change, though, if the zerg successfully prevent that from happening, then the reward will be bigger. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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debasers
737 Posts
And also, I remember David Kim saying that the Void Ray change happenned because a Korean Terran Pro sent them an e-mail explaining why some 3 gate stargate build was overpowered. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On December 30 2010 08:40 debasers wrote: Hey IdrA, why dont you send a well written e-mail to Blizzard, explaining everything you said, possibly with replays, and they might hear you. I mean, you're a pretty big name, right? And also, I remember David Kim saying that the Void Ray change happenned because a Korean Terran Pro sent them an e-mail explaining why some 3 gate stargate build was overpowered. Makaprime I think. It's still pretty fucking strong though :o | ||
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alepov
Netherlands1132 Posts
On December 30 2010 04:43 Raiznhell wrote: Or TvZ when zerg gets that early expand and then just either masses well thats the whole idea because zerg HAS to outexpand you and outmass you, which is much harder to do than wall in and chill with your mmm. i understand it's frustrating for you to get outskilled, but it's a different source of frustration. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On December 30 2010 08:43 alepov wrote: well thats the whole idea because zerg HAS to outexpand you and outmass you, which is much harder to do than wall in and chill with your mmm. i understand it's frustrating for you to get outskilled, but it's a different source of frustration. Incredibly debatable. | ||
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FrostedMiniWeet
United States636 Posts
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
I'd go further and say it's plain wrong. Wall off and 'chill' with mmm, in TvZ? What game are you playing? | ||
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dkim
United States255 Posts
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FOUTWENTYSIXTY
89 Posts
On December 30 2010 08:40 debasers wrote: And also, I remember David Kim saying that the Void Ray change happenned because a Korean Terran Pro sent them an e-mail explaining why some 3 gate stargate build was overpowered. It's kind of amazing what people will believe. It doesn't take one email to nerf void rays in to the ground no matter how it's phrased. Even if there was a magical and broken 3 gate stargate build, why would they nerf flux veins in the same patch. Voids were nerfed for the same reason that reapers were, they were ruining 2v2 as an actual playable option. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On December 30 2010 09:29 FrostedMiniWeet wrote: Overlord speed upgrade for 75/75 or 50/50 at Hatchery tech would solve most of Zergs problems at the moment, and wouldn't drastically affect the game. I think most Terrans/Protoss would be OK with these changes, especially if they included similar changes to Protoss and Terran as Idra suggested. Easier intel at critical times would greatly reduce the cheese/all-in tendencies I think. Hopefully Blizzard recognizes this as a problem. No, it'd have significant more repercussions than you imagine. Besides essentially killing plenty of builds, it'd also significantly increase the strength of Roach or even Hydra timing attacks, by allowing you to easily lay out a creep highway the second lair finishes. You can't really do this without ovie speed as you'd have to have your ovies out forever, leaving them ample time to be sniped. | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
On December 30 2010 04:54 TypeFake wrote: Or or you know what? You could just send one ling to each Xel'naga Tower and get a glimpse of what's coming. Buffing lings is ridiculous, since you could potentially pump out 50+ lings in one go in the later stages of the game. Hectic, Xel Naga towers see into bases now? That's awesome. On December 30 2010 05:33 Jermstuddog wrote: It makes pylon blocking ramps a little bit less awesome but still completely viable. Oddly enough, I have been doing an evo chamber+ spine crawler ramp block to protect against early hellion raids, so this change is actually a nerf to my ZvT game... Couldn't u just block at the top of your ramp?  | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On December 30 2010 09:29 FrostedMiniWeet wrote: Overlord speed upgrade for 75/75 or 50/50 at Hatchery tech would solve most of Zergs problems at the moment, and wouldn't drastically affect the game. I think most Terrans/Protoss would be OK with these changes, especially if they included similar changes to Protoss and Terran as Idra suggested. Easier intel at critical times would greatly reduce the cheese/all-in tendencies I think. Hopefully Blizzard recognizes this as a problem. No they will still persist. Idra will still get the same bunker rush build from Boxer he gets each time they play each other. He will still leave the game as usual. | ||
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-Exalt-
United States972 Posts
On December 29 2010 17:41 IdrA wrote: fruitdealer made a big post bitching about zvt during his gsl 1 run nestea called out and tvz'd some random korean newbie who said it was easy to hold cheese zvt because its that retarded. you think they resort to allins nearly every zvp because they want to turn the game into a coinflip vs players worse than them? You're playing a lot of Protoss? WHAT You're dead to me.. On a serious note, that is the right thing to do right now, zerg is awful and not worth the stress when you can go beat everyone as toss with ease / shorter games. It's too bad everyone in diamond on the US ladder plays toss so its just PvP | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
On December 30 2010 12:22 EternaL_9 wrote: It's too bad everyone in diamond on the US ladder plays toss so its just PvP Korean ladder is full of TvT and NA ladder is full of PvP. If you want to meet Z you will have to uncheck Steppes, Delta, Jungle, etc. lol. | ||
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