And also, I remember David Kim saying that the Void Ray change happenned because a Korean Terran Pro sent them an e-mail explaining why some 3 gate stargate build was overpowered.
It's kind of amazing what people will believe. It doesn't take one email to nerf void rays in to the ground no matter how it's phrased. Even if there was a magical and broken 3 gate stargate build, why would they nerf flux veins in the same patch.
Voids were nerfed for the same reason that reapers were, they were ruining 2v2 as an actual playable option.
what? in what way were/are void rays exceptional in 2v2?
If you reach a certain mass Void Rays demolish everything, because they fire so fast. With the increased lvl 1 damage it's even better. At least that's my experience using mass Void Rays only (even against Marine, Stalker, Viking armies).
On December 31 2010 04:32 frumpylumps wrote: Idra picked zerg when zerg was OP and terran was UP so I think this is pretty hypocritical.
the skill ceiling for terran is higher than other races so it is natural that the most skilled players will pick them.
If you have good micro and macro, no reason to not pick terran. Despite zerg being "the macro race" does playing zerg really require more macro ability than terran who need to que up 1 unit at a time to remain efficient?
I
personally I think Z and P are much easier to play than terran in terms of micro and macro but I am not a pro so I don't know for certain, that is just my opinion.
So I guess that's why most high-level TvZ became marine/SCV fest? You gave me a good laugh.
well what do you expect? used to be reapers but zerg cried about that so all terran has left to pressure early with is marine SCV. "pressure or die" that is the terran motto. hellions only work against zergs who make mistakes/don't know how to block it with buildings, queen and spine crawler.
In my opinion he doesn't really deserve anything he getted in SC 2 . It is also a good indicator that the marine is broken as it can get with mule mechanics .
On December 29 2010 15:13 Fa1nT wrote: IdrA ladders to practice, why would he stick around an extra 10 minutes in a game where he gets cannon contained when he most likely will lose unless the protoss fucks up?
time is more important than ladder points I would assume
its exactly what i was going to write. seriously guys its just this. idra doesnt waste time in games that are worthless.
On December 29 2010 15:44 Liquid`Ret wrote: all these theories on idra ladder are untrue...he ladders to win games...just watch his stream...it also explains why zerg isnt in top10 and why there are less of us in the top200
indeed if i think i can win i stay in the game. there are times when ive left a game and my opponent couldve made a gigantic mistake and handed me the win, but thats rare and irrelevant. its just really fucking easy to lose as zerg.
Do you think that zerg is currently at a disadvantage or do you think it is a momentum race that cannot lose momentum if they want to win?
I know that you don't like to respond very often, but I would like to hear your views on the current state of the zerg race (without iNcontrol telling you to shut up like on SOTG lol)
zerg is fucking awful clearly weakest, least reliable options early game. any viable pressure is nearly a complete allin, besides light roach aggression which is easily nullified. both t and p have lots of ways to put game ending pressure on z early and half of them arent even close to allin, and most are unscoutable and have different counters.
and the idea that z is somehow the strongest late game race is fuckin absurd. hive units are nearly useless and horribly cost inefficient unless broodlords catch them off guard. ya, you can insta remax if you're allowed to get a giant econ, but remaxing on lair units vs collosus or tank based armies hardly matters when you can trade 200/200 for a tenth of their army.
if z guesses, and guessing is required if t and p dont show a ridiculously early expansion, correctly and hits drone timings perfectly then they have a mid game advantage, but its not an advantage that can be used very well. its very easy for t or p to make themselves unkillable and head for that invincible late game army. z gets to use their unit advantage to tech towards hive, which can be nullified, or to expand a bunch so they can throw away a few extra 200/200 armies before getting rolled.
zerg is failing massively in just about every statistic besides gsl first places. the race is fucking awful. i honestly have no idea how so many people dont acknowledge it yet. zergs performance in the foreign scene is very nearly non existent. i think morrow has won one viking cup and otherwise 0 z wins since i won mlg dc. and a pitiful number of titles before that.
to be fair u cant really make alot of statistics of the foreigner scene. i think zerg is a race that simply needs more time put into it than terran for example, doesnt make it imbalanced. just compare t and p in sc1 tosses won more in the foreigner scene aswell because we dont play as much as the koreans. talked to dimaga he has been inactive if i understood him correctly and darkforce has been busy with studies afaik like most foreigners and i well, im not good enough yet. who do you want to win in the foreigner scene? actionjesus? daboo? skruf? lol
i cant make a good statement what i think about balance since i have so much to learn still but as far as my games go and games in europe i almost hear every p/t say z is imba while all zergs around me tell p is imba
my point is, the level in europe is probably not high enough to draw fair statics from. but i think most of us has already agreed zerg needs more practice hours than a terran to win big tournaments
always such a great manner bear^^. Although I agree with most of this I think its still a lot harder to win in some aspects as zerg compared to the other races, especially at lower levels. To early though to make such broad whine posts as many zergs have though as well.
On December 29 2010 15:44 Liquid`Ret wrote: all these theories on idra ladder are untrue...he ladders to win games...just watch his stream...it also explains why zerg isnt in top10 and why there are less of us in the top200
indeed if i think i can win i stay in the game. there are times when ive left a game and my opponent couldve made a gigantic mistake and handed me the win, but thats rare and irrelevant. its just really fucking easy to lose as zerg.
Do you think that zerg is currently at a disadvantage or do you think it is a momentum race that cannot lose momentum if they want to win?
I know that you don't like to respond very often, but I would like to hear your views on the current state of the zerg race (without iNcontrol telling you to shut up like on SOTG lol)
zerg is fucking awful clearly weakest, least reliable options early game. any viable pressure is nearly a complete allin, besides light roach aggression which is easily nullified. both t and p have lots of ways to put game ending pressure on z early and half of them arent even close to allin, and most are unscoutable and have different counters.
and the idea that z is somehow the strongest late game race is fuckin absurd. hive units are nearly useless and horribly cost inefficient unless broodlords catch them off guard. ya, you can insta remax if you're allowed to get a giant econ, but remaxing on lair units vs collosus or tank based armies hardly matters when you can trade 200/200 for a tenth of their army.
if z guesses, and guessing is required if t and p dont show a ridiculously early expansion, correctly and hits drone timings perfectly then they have a mid game advantage, but its not an advantage that can be used very well. its very easy for t or p to make themselves unkillable and head for that invincible late game army. z gets to use their unit advantage to tech towards hive, which can be nullified, or to expand a bunch so they can throw away a few extra 200/200 armies before getting rolled.
zerg is failing massively in just about every statistic besides gsl first places. the race is fucking awful. i honestly have no idea how so many people dont acknowledge it yet. zergs performance in the foreign scene is very nearly non existent. i think morrow has won one viking cup and otherwise 0 z wins since i won mlg dc. and a pitiful number of titles before that.
to be fair u cant really make alot of statistics of the foreigner scene. i think zerg is a race that simply needs more time put into it than terran for example, doesnt make it imbalanced. just compare t and p in sc1 tosses won more in the foreigner scene aswell because we dont play as much as the koreans. talked to dimaga he has been inactive if i understood him correctly and darkforce has been busy with studies afaik like most foreigners and i well, im not good enough yet. who do you want to win in the foreigner scene? actionjesus? daboo? skruf? lol
i cant make a good statement what i think about balance since i have so much to learn still but as far as my games go and games in europe i almost hear every p/t say z is imba while all zergs around me tell p is imba
my point is, the level in europe is probably not high enough to draw fair statics from. but i think most of us has already agreed zerg needs more practice hours than a terran to win big tournaments
always such a great manner bear^^. Although I agree with most of this I think its still a lot harder to win in some aspects as zerg compared to the other races, especially at lower levels. To early though to make such broad whine posts as many zergs have though as well.
Wait, more importantly, why is Morrow's nickname "bear"?
On December 29 2010 22:33 SoL[9] wrote: EtdGrrr anyone can confirme if is really him?
Idra For what has to read you are going to change protoss if the GSL works bad for you or blizzard dont change things right?
how does that happen i explicitly said in that same post that im probably sticking with z no matter what im just playing some protoss on the side in case things get even worse and blizzard keeps doing nothing. since sc2 is more strategically than mechanically oriented its helpful to play offraces anyway.
On December 29 2010 15:44 Liquid`Ret wrote: all these theories on idra ladder are untrue...he ladders to win games...just watch his stream...it also explains why zerg isnt in top10 and why there are less of us in the top200
indeed if i think i can win i stay in the game. there are times when ive left a game and my opponent couldve made a gigantic mistake and handed me the win, but thats rare and irrelevant. its just really fucking easy to lose as zerg.
Do you think that zerg is currently at a disadvantage or do you think it is a momentum race that cannot lose momentum if they want to win?
I know that you don't like to respond very often, but I would like to hear your views on the current state of the zerg race (without iNcontrol telling you to shut up like on SOTG lol)
zerg is fucking awful clearly weakest, least reliable options early game. any viable pressure is nearly a complete allin, besides light roach aggression which is easily nullified. both t and p have lots of ways to put game ending pressure on z early and half of them arent even close to allin, and most are unscoutable and have different counters.
and the idea that z is somehow the strongest late game race is fuckin absurd. hive units are nearly useless and horribly cost inefficient unless broodlords catch them off guard. ya, you can insta remax if you're allowed to get a giant econ, but remaxing on lair units vs collosus or tank based armies hardly matters when you can trade 200/200 for a tenth of their army.
if z guesses, and guessing is required if t and p dont show a ridiculously early expansion, correctly and hits drone timings perfectly then they have a mid game advantage, but its not an advantage that can be used very well. its very easy for t or p to make themselves unkillable and head for that invincible late game army. z gets to use their unit advantage to tech towards hive, which can be nullified, or to expand a bunch so they can throw away a few extra 200/200 armies before getting rolled.
zerg is failing massively in just about every statistic besides gsl first places. the race is fucking awful. i honestly have no idea how so many people dont acknowledge it yet. zergs performance in the foreign scene is very nearly non existent. i think morrow has won one viking cup and otherwise 0 z wins since i won mlg dc. and a pitiful number of titles before that.
to be fair u cant really make alot of statistics of the foreigner scene. i think zerg is a race that simply needs more time put into it than terran for example, doesnt make it imbalanced. just compare t and p in sc1 tosses won more in the foreigner scene aswell because we dont play as much as the koreans. talked to dimaga he has been inactive if i understood him correctly and darkforce has been busy with studies afaik like most foreigners and i well, im not good enough yet. who do you want to win in the foreigner scene? actionjesus? daboo? skruf? lol
i cant make a good statement what i think about balance since i have so much to learn still but as far as my games go and games in europe i almost hear every p/t say z is imba while all zergs around me tell p is imba
my point is, the level in europe is probably not high enough to draw fair statics from. but i think most of us has already agreed zerg needs more practice hours than a terran to win big tournaments
Im practising very hard for weeks already, i have very little to do with studies... But right now i am somewhat frustrated, not sure how much longer i can motivate myself to practise alot.
Sure, i agree, there are alot more "good" terran players in europe than there are "good" zerg players. The question is, how much of this is "good" and how much of it is terran. A question to which noone knows the answer of.
On December 29 2010 15:44 Liquid`Ret wrote: all these theories on idra ladder are untrue...he ladders to win games...just watch his stream...it also explains why zerg isnt in top10 and why there are less of us in the top200
indeed if i think i can win i stay in the game. there are times when ive left a game and my opponent couldve made a gigantic mistake and handed me the win, but thats rare and irrelevant. its just really fucking easy to lose as zerg.
Do you think that zerg is currently at a disadvantage or do you think it is a momentum race that cannot lose momentum if they want to win?
I know that you don't like to respond very often, but I would like to hear your views on the current state of the zerg race (without iNcontrol telling you to shut up like on SOTG lol)
zerg is fucking awful clearly weakest, least reliable options early game. any viable pressure is nearly a complete allin, besides light roach aggression which is easily nullified. both t and p have lots of ways to put game ending pressure on z early and half of them arent even close to allin, and most are unscoutable and have different counters.
and the idea that z is somehow the strongest late game race is fuckin absurd. hive units are nearly useless and horribly cost inefficient unless broodlords catch them off guard. ya, you can insta remax if you're allowed to get a giant econ, but remaxing on lair units vs collosus or tank based armies hardly matters when you can trade 200/200 for a tenth of their army.
if z guesses, and guessing is required if t and p dont show a ridiculously early expansion, correctly and hits drone timings perfectly then they have a mid game advantage, but its not an advantage that can be used very well. its very easy for t or p to make themselves unkillable and head for that invincible late game army. z gets to use their unit advantage to tech towards hive, which can be nullified, or to expand a bunch so they can throw away a few extra 200/200 armies before getting rolled.
zerg is failing massively in just about every statistic besides gsl first places. the race is fucking awful. i honestly have no idea how so many people dont acknowledge it yet. zergs performance in the foreign scene is very nearly non existent. i think morrow has won one viking cup and otherwise 0 z wins since i won mlg dc. and a pitiful number of titles before that.
to be fair u cant really make alot of statistics of the foreigner scene. i think zerg is a race that simply needs more time put into it than terran for example, doesnt make it imbalanced. just compare t and p in sc1 tosses won more in the foreigner scene aswell because we dont play as much as the koreans. talked to dimaga he has been inactive if i understood him correctly and darkforce has been busy with studies afaik like most foreigners and i well, im not good enough yet. who do you want to win in the foreigner scene? actionjesus? daboo? skruf? lol
i cant make a good statement what i think about balance since i have so much to learn still but as far as my games go and games in europe i almost hear every p/t say z is imba while all zergs around me tell p is imba
my point is, the level in europe is probably not high enough to draw fair statics from. but i think most of us has already agreed zerg needs more practice hours than a terran to win big tournaments
Im practising very hard for weeks already, i have very little to do with studies... But right now i am somewhat frustrated, not sure how much longer i can motivate myself to practise alot.
Sure, i agree, there are alot more "good" terran players in europe than there are "good" zerg players. The question is, how much of this is "good" and how much of it is terran. A question to which noone knows the answer of.
Another question is "why are there so few foreigner zergs?" While there are certainly fewer zerg players overall, the proportion is even more skewed toward t/p at the highest foreigner level. It might not say anything about balance, but I think the answer has something to do with the angst gained from playing (and losing) as zerg. I've seen many top Z's including IdrA, DIMAGA, FruitDealer, and now Darkforce complaining of massive frustration with zerg and as Darkforce has just said it is hard to motivate one's self when in that mind set.
Bullshit is too viable in that game right now, but this will get evened out eventually. I agree with Darkforce that it's frustrating sometimes, because a lot of times it feels like you're losing to inferior players. It is no fun going into a game and almost certainly knowing you are gonna get cheesed or killed with any other all-in strategy. I think the maps are a big deal when it comes to balance. Some of the ramps, cliffs, expo positions or rush distances are just killing some of the races (in most cases it's zerg). Even those balanced maps like meta (top right you can position an overlord in ZvZ to watch both minerals, doesnt work anywhere else) or scrap station (in the right position it takes 2 creep tumors to get the creep down the ramp) are not really balanced. Now they removed shakuras which makes matters even worse.
But I think Blizz realizes that the maps are more or less awful and the next patch will give protoss cannoning zergs in a much harder time. But I'm really clueless when it comes to patching SCV marine all-ins, they even thought about reducing the bunker build time by 5 seconds :S.
Terran: Obviously resembling human race overall. Units have great variety of personalities and even sensuality (Banshee, Ghost). Voice-over is smooth and ear-pleasing. Lots of gimmicks and fun mechanics to try out.
Toss: Elegant unit designs and classy voice-over. Very cool looking, high-tech units with satisfying firepower (Colossi, Void Rays). Neat and tidy buildings. Warp-in mechanism is too cool to resist trying out. Probes are so cute especially when they're pissed. (fish? chicks?)
Zerg: Reminds you of bugs, worms, beggars, monsters, filthy, nasty, squeaks, garbage center, etc. Queen is only sexy if you avoid seeing her portrait in the UI pannel.
Midway through the beta, Zerg in Korea was way overpowered. Part of that was that a lot of top players played Zerg because it was the strongest race.
Zerg I think is in the reverse of that right now. Other than July, you don't see really any good BW players going to Zerg like you do Terran or even Protoss in Korea. Similarly, how many WC3 pros switched to Zerg? Two?
But, yeah, 23% of diamond plays Zerg, and 23% of the top 200 plays Zerg. I don't see how this particular top 200 is disconcerting, especially considering the ratio of Zergs went up this week.
On December 29 2010 14:46 Antoine wrote: 47 (23.5%) ↑3 (1.5%) 81 (40.5%) ↓6 (3.0%) 70 (35.0%) ↑3 (1.5%) 02 (01.0%)
So let's get the obvious out of the way: Terran make up 8 of the top 11 spots.
I liked it better when the top players were all Zerg! And now they're all Terran. At what point were the majority of the top ~20 players ever Protoss? Has that ever even happened?
Rankings have a lot to do with how often you play with that account. None of the top players, literally none of them play completely on their main account.
As much as I think Idra is overrated, he's much better than rank #126 foreigner. He's at least top 10. That shows you how useful this info actually is.
On December 29 2010 15:44 Liquid`Ret wrote: all these theories on idra ladder are untrue...he ladders to win games...just watch his stream...it also explains why zerg isnt in top10 and why there are less of us in the top200
indeed if i think i can win i stay in the game. there are times when ive left a game and my opponent couldve made a gigantic mistake and handed me the win, but thats rare and irrelevant. its just really fucking easy to lose as zerg.
Do you think that zerg is currently at a disadvantage or do you think it is a momentum race that cannot lose momentum if they want to win?
I know that you don't like to respond very often, but I would like to hear your views on the current state of the zerg race (without iNcontrol telling you to shut up like on SOTG lol)
zerg is fucking awful clearly weakest, least reliable options early game. any viable pressure is nearly a complete allin, besides light roach aggression which is easily nullified. both t and p have lots of ways to put game ending pressure on z early and half of them arent even close to allin, and most are unscoutable and have different counters.
and the idea that z is somehow the strongest late game race is fuckin absurd. hive units are nearly useless and horribly cost inefficient unless broodlords catch them off guard. ya, you can insta remax if you're allowed to get a giant econ, but remaxing on lair units vs collosus or tank based armies hardly matters when you can trade 200/200 for a tenth of their army.
if z guesses, and guessing is required if t and p dont show a ridiculously early expansion, correctly and hits drone timings perfectly then they have a mid game advantage, but its not an advantage that can be used very well. its very easy for t or p to make themselves unkillable and head for that invincible late game army. z gets to use their unit advantage to tech towards hive, which can be nullified, or to expand a bunch so they can throw away a few extra 200/200 armies before getting rolled.
zerg is failing massively in just about every statistic besides gsl first places. the race is fucking awful. i honestly have no idea how so many people dont acknowledge it yet. zergs performance in the foreign scene is very nearly non existent. i think morrow has won one viking cup and otherwise 0 z wins since i won mlg dc. and a pitiful number of titles before that.
to be fair u cant really make alot of statistics of the foreigner scene. i think zerg is a race that simply needs more time put into it than terran for example, doesnt make it imbalanced. just compare t and p in sc1 tosses won more in the foreigner scene aswell because we dont play as much as the koreans. talked to dimaga he has been inactive if i understood him correctly and darkforce has been busy with studies afaik like most foreigners and i well, im not good enough yet. who do you want to win in the foreigner scene? actionjesus? daboo? skruf? lol
i cant make a good statement what i think about balance since i have so much to learn still but as far as my games go and games in europe i almost hear every p/t say z is imba while all zergs around me tell p is imba
my point is, the level in europe is probably not high enough to draw fair statics from. but i think most of us has already agreed zerg needs more practice hours than a terran to win big tournaments
always such a great manner bear^^. Although I agree with most of this I think its still a lot harder to win in some aspects as zerg compared to the other races, especially at lower levels. To early though to make such broad whine posts as many zergs have though as well.
the fact that you ever win games is more than enough justification for any amount of whining
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LOUJ6.png)
47 (23.5%) ↑3 (1.5%)
81 (40.5%) ↓6 (3.0%)
70 (35.0%) ↑3 (1.5%)
02 (01.0%)
EPT
