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On December 23 2010 02:22 SharkSpider wrote:
Running a tourney where the prize pool increases depending on who wins is a bad idea. It gives players major incentive to talk about stuff like this, and the fact is that they asked permission first. Nothing wrong here.
They asked after they were caught because of Morrows stupidity. They would have done so anyway without asking if it wasn't revealed like that.
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On December 23 2010 02:26 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 02:21 FrostShadow wrote:
Its a shame to see all the angry, hateful people in this thread bashing morrow and sjow. They didnt do anything wrong, this doesnt matter and has been blown way out of proportion.
Some people just love to hate and cry about everything, be it balance, how people play, or what questions a player asks about a tourny between friends. Perhaps they should just grow up and enjoy an awesome game. lmao, people who want legit tournaments are angry and hateful? You just pulled that out of your ass.
show me the games that were actually fixed? sounds like none were.
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United States22883 Posts
On December 23 2010 02:28 Hirnfrost wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 02:22 Jibba wrote:
I'm curious how people would view this if one of them wasn't heavily favored to win the event.
Say TLO had also been invited, so instead of just fighting between themselves for the finals, they would have been working together to lower TLO's chances of getting to 11. Is that worse in people's opinions? I don´t understand how they could lower TLO´s chances? They would still have to beat him 1v1, it´s not like they could 2v1 him.
TLO would have to beat two top tier players to win. They would only have to beat one. It's not the same as rolling 2 dice vs. 1, but it's like getting an extra roll.
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The games weren't even fixed. They just talked about it. MorroW didnt even play and Sjow got beaten by some random.
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Read Morrow's post. Close this thread... sigh.
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On December 23 2010 02:22 Jibba wrote:I'm curious how people would view this if one of them wasn't heavily favored to win the event. Say TLO had also been invited, so instead of just fighting between themselves for the finals, they would have been working together to lower TLO's chances of getting to 11. Is that worse in people's opinions? + Show Spoiler +If so, how is that different than the actual situation? Ignoring the possibility of an unknown causing an upset, the skill level of the competition determines whether it's ok to game them or not?
There's no difference there if they play out the finals or if they all forfeit them to Morrow since TLO isn't involved in any of those games. How can what Sjow and Morrow do between themselves hurt TLO's chances? It doesn't matter if they play the games out or Sjow just forfeits every time to TLO, right?
On December 23 2010 02:31 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 02:28 Hirnfrost wrote:On December 23 2010 02:22 Jibba wrote:
I'm curious how people would view this if one of them wasn't heavily favored to win the event.
Say TLO had also been invited, so instead of just fighting between themselves for the finals, they would have been working together to lower TLO's chances of getting to 11. Is that worse in people's opinions? I don´t understand how they could lower TLO´s chances? They would still have to beat him 1v1, it´s not like they could 2v1 him. TLO would have to beat two top tier players to win. They would only have to beat one. It's not the same as rolling 2 dice vs. 1, but it's like getting an extra roll.
This doesn't hurt TLO's chances at all! It hurts his chances relatively to Sjow+Morrow, but TLO's chances are the same, and I don't see why the relative chances matter.
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On December 23 2010 02:21 FrostShadow wrote:
Its a shame to see all the angry, hateful people in this thread bashing morrow and sjow. They didnt do anything wrong, this doesnt matter and has been blown way out of proportion.
Some people just love to hate and cry about everything, be it balance, how people play, or what questions a player asks about a tourny between friends. Perhaps they should just grow up and enjoy an awesome game.
How is it a shame? It is a testament to the value us players/posters place on the integrity of the game that we care enough to post and discuss what is right or wrong with tournament conduct. Or, it is a testament to how much we care about our favorite or disliked players. Either way, both of these are good signs that the community 'cares' and wants to be involved in the careful and positive growth of a game they love - that is not a shame, that is something special.
What is a shame is that you take passionate posts out of context and assume they are coming from the same source that balance or other 'completely different' complaints players have come from.
I agree that the priority should be that we should all enjoy an awesome game, however this is a case of two recognized players leading on that their priority is more alligned with the outcome/prize of the game than with the playing of it.
I do think they are doing something wrong. I also think what they are doing, only one of them now competing, to be a continuation of them doing something wrong. It is their decision of course, but even that indicates to me that they are trying to extract maximum value out of tournaments, and not simply competing in them for the sake of competition. Sadly, I understand this is the reality of their life situations, money matters.
I don't dislike or like any of the players involved more or less. I am hopeful that this will be a learning experience for them as it is obviously one for the community discussing/thinking about it.
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Seriously SjoW & MorroW - you really need to learn something about PR and how to handle things.
This is not about cheating, it's more about manners and kids don't want to see their heroes do something that's not morally right.
This is a small tournament at a Internet Café and it cannot directly be compared to GSL. But the kids playing there likes to participate in it and will get nervous like hell when they meet you.
This is bad for you because these gamers will look at you different now.
I'm not judging if you broke the rules or not - but I want to say that you handle this really shitty in so many ways:
1. You discuss this on a open live stream. Seriously, what where you thinking?
2. You publicly say: "I agree its wrong on a big tournament because it lets down the audiance. By not showing a good game or not a game at all. But in this case theres no audiance at all."
You disrespect all of the participants in Inferno Online who probably where looking forward to these "Nightgib" during Christmas. For many of them meeting you in a tournament is something big that they will talk about to friends and family.
3. You talk shit about the site that reported this. It doesn't matter who reported about it - you made it public by discussing it on a live stream. You are personally responsible that people talk about it so don't put the blame on someone else.
4. You call people faggots and therefore you sound homophobic pricks on an open forum.
You still don't think there's a problem here?
Wake up guys! This news is out internationally and right now you look like idiots.
If I where a PR manager at Mousesports or Dignitas I would have a 4h lesson in manners and teach you how to handle things regarding PR.
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On December 23 2010 02:32 huameng wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 02:22 Jibba wrote:I'm curious how people would view this if one of them wasn't heavily favored to win the event. Say TLO had also been invited, so instead of just fighting between themselves for the finals, they would have been working together to lower TLO's chances of getting to 11. Is that worse in people's opinions? + Show Spoiler +If so, how is that different than the actual situation? Ignoring the possibility of an unknown causing an upset, the skill level of the competition determines whether it's ok to game them or not? There's no difference there if they play out the finals or if they all forfeit them to Morrow since TLO isn't involved in any of those games. How can what Sjow and Morrow do between themselves hurt TLO's chances? It doesn't matter if they play the games out or Sjow just forfeits every time to TLO, right? Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 02:31 Jibba wrote:On December 23 2010 02:28 Hirnfrost wrote:On December 23 2010 02:22 Jibba wrote:
I'm curious how people would view this if one of them wasn't heavily favored to win the event.
Say TLO had also been invited, so instead of just fighting between themselves for the finals, they would have been working together to lower TLO's chances of getting to 11. Is that worse in people's opinions? I don´t understand how they could lower TLO´s chances? They would still have to beat him 1v1, it´s not like they could 2v1 him. TLO would have to beat two top tier players to win. They would only have to beat one. It's not the same as rolling 2 dice vs. 1, but it's like getting an extra roll. This doesn't hurt TLO's chances at all! It hurts his chances relatively to Sjow+Morrow, but TLO's chances are the same, and I don't see why the relative chances matter.
So if one player (morrow/sjow) could win 1 game instead of having to win 2 (TLO), that doesnt matter? damn, set me up, id rather only do half the work to get the prize.
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On December 23 2010 01:51 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 01:41 goldfishs wrote:On December 23 2010 01:34 Tomken wrote:
Still matchfixing. Will people fucking calm down and get a grip. These are small tournaments with shit prices, and some of you is like omg MATCHFIXING BANN BANN BANN! 1. Nobody gives a shit about this tournament, there is absolutely no esteem in winning it. 2. They are not fixing matches unless you're sitting there betting money on them. 3. I do agree that it's bad sportsmanship and whatever, but what they want to do is their business, not yours. Terrible fallacious argument. The size of the tournament has no bearing on whether or not it is ok to do something like this.
I'm saying that I'm okey with it because with the system they're having they were pretty much asking for it.
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On December 23 2010 02:36 zev318 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 02:32 huameng wrote:On December 23 2010 02:22 Jibba wrote:I'm curious how people would view this if one of them wasn't heavily favored to win the event. Say TLO had also been invited, so instead of just fighting between themselves for the finals, they would have been working together to lower TLO's chances of getting to 11. Is that worse in people's opinions? + Show Spoiler +If so, how is that different than the actual situation? Ignoring the possibility of an unknown causing an upset, the skill level of the competition determines whether it's ok to game them or not? There's no difference there if they play out the finals or if they all forfeit them to Morrow since TLO isn't involved in any of those games. How can what Sjow and Morrow do between themselves hurt TLO's chances? It doesn't matter if they play the games out or Sjow just forfeits every time to TLO, right? On December 23 2010 02:31 Jibba wrote:On December 23 2010 02:28 Hirnfrost wrote:On December 23 2010 02:22 Jibba wrote:
I'm curious how people would view this if one of them wasn't heavily favored to win the event.
Say TLO had also been invited, so instead of just fighting between themselves for the finals, they would have been working together to lower TLO's chances of getting to 11. Is that worse in people's opinions? I don´t understand how they could lower TLO´s chances? They would still have to beat him 1v1, it´s not like they could 2v1 him. TLO would have to beat two top tier players to win. They would only have to beat one. It's not the same as rolling 2 dice vs. 1, but it's like getting an extra roll. This doesn't hurt TLO's chances at all! It hurts his chances relatively to Sjow+Morrow, but TLO's chances are the same, and I don't see why the relative chances matter. So if one player (morrow/sjow) could win 1 game instead of having to win 2 (TLO), that doesnt matter?
Yes, that's correct. TLO's chances of winning the tournament are the same whether Sjow concedes to Morrow or not, right? So he isn't hurt at all.
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well done. chatting about this while streaming. evil genius
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On December 23 2010 02:37 goldfishs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 01:51 On_Slaught wrote:On December 23 2010 01:41 goldfishs wrote:On December 23 2010 01:34 Tomken wrote:
Still matchfixing. Will people fucking calm down and get a grip. These are small tournaments with shit prices, and some of you is like omg MATCHFIXING BANN BANN BANN! 1. Nobody gives a shit about this tournament, there is absolutely no esteem in winning it. 2. They are not fixing matches unless you're sitting there betting money on them. 3. I do agree that it's bad sportsmanship and whatever, but what they want to do is their business, not yours. Terrible fallacious argument. The size of the tournament has no bearing on whether or not it is ok to do something like this. I'm saying that I'm okey with it because with the system they're having they were pretty much asking for it.
See, this is a sad statement. Why since there is potential for abuse should the top end players be doing this? It ruins the image of what high level gaming and E-sports really is. Remember when there was the match fixing thing in Korea and how many people that affected? This is basically similar just on a much smaller level. There is nothing good that can come out of it, so why discuss it to begin with?
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On December 23 2010 02:39 huameng wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 02:36 zev318 wrote:On December 23 2010 02:32 huameng wrote:On December 23 2010 02:22 Jibba wrote:I'm curious how people would view this if one of them wasn't heavily favored to win the event. Say TLO had also been invited, so instead of just fighting between themselves for the finals, they would have been working together to lower TLO's chances of getting to 11. Is that worse in people's opinions? + Show Spoiler +If so, how is that different than the actual situation? Ignoring the possibility of an unknown causing an upset, the skill level of the competition determines whether it's ok to game them or not? There's no difference there if they play out the finals or if they all forfeit them to Morrow since TLO isn't involved in any of those games. How can what Sjow and Morrow do between themselves hurt TLO's chances? It doesn't matter if they play the games out or Sjow just forfeits every time to TLO, right? On December 23 2010 02:31 Jibba wrote:On December 23 2010 02:28 Hirnfrost wrote:On December 23 2010 02:22 Jibba wrote:
I'm curious how people would view this if one of them wasn't heavily favored to win the event.
Say TLO had also been invited, so instead of just fighting between themselves for the finals, they would have been working together to lower TLO's chances of getting to 11. Is that worse in people's opinions? I don´t understand how they could lower TLO´s chances? They would still have to beat him 1v1, it´s not like they could 2v1 him. TLO would have to beat two top tier players to win. They would only have to beat one. It's not the same as rolling 2 dice vs. 1, but it's like getting an extra roll. This doesn't hurt TLO's chances at all! It hurts his chances relatively to Sjow+Morrow, but TLO's chances are the same, and I don't see why the relative chances matter. So if one player (morrow/sjow) could win 1 game instead of having to win 2 (TLO), that doesnt matter? Yes, that's correct. TLO's chances of winning the tournament are the same whether Sjow concedes to Morrow or not, right? So he isn't hurt at all.
No, only if TLO only has to play 1 of them and not both.
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On December 23 2010 02:28 MorroW wrote:+ Show Spoiler +when we saw this event we quickly realized if both if us played it and won half of the tours then we wouldnt get the computer (there are about 16 tours and need 11 tour wins to get the computer). assuming we would win half of these each which would make us 3 steps away from getting it
so we asked maven if it was allowed to play the finals and give the win to the other player even if someone else won. for example if me and sjow met in finals and then we stacked all wins to sjows "thorphy table". he said he was ok and i thought it was ok going to IOL on the bus but when i got there it was not the case. we were not allowed to stack all wins to 1 player
in all honesty im far from a cheater, i have never cheated in my life and im a serious gamer.
i thought i could keep the stream on because its not like were gonna talk anything dirty about cheating. we were just honestly asking the admins of the tournament if it was allowed to give the wins to 1 player if we met in the finals. which was not allowed
and from here rakaka took over and made the story alot more interesting than it actually is haha
if its allowed by the admins to split wins like that then u shouldnt call the gamers cheaters or anything, then you should complaint to the admins and orga for allowing it to happen. me and sjow are good friends and we knew we would be the far superior players at this backdoor neighbour events thats why we wanted to work together so we wouldnt sabotage each other so nobody of us would get the computer, it actually makes alot of sense.
you cant blame players for things they do might be boring or lame, just when i abused reapers in the IEM germany, its imbalanced and i said it myself but you shouldnt call me a lame player for doing it, you should put the blame on the game for being imbalanced. its quite the same concept if u think about it really
me and sjow came to a new conclusion now anyway and we decided only 1 player should stay and play these tournaments and it turns out to be sjow. just to make it extra clear only 1 of us plays this because if both plays it theres a big risk neither of us gets the computer and that would be such a tragedy
lets just cheer for sjow to get the computer asap. if the cs players get 11 wins before sjow does, then they will take both the computers they have on their giveout and once sjow reach 11 wins he wont get any computer. thats why its so important that 1 person wins all tours in a row
many are talking about rigging games as in acting the finals when one player plays on purpose badly so he loses. we were never going to do this ofcourse. we were gonna play finals and have a nice time and let the best player win, and then give the actual prize wins to 1 person.
this is not anything like koreas match making scandal^^
ive been a member of the sc community for a long time and ive been a very mannered and competitive one aswell with high goals in the game.
it would never come to me to cheat in events and thats why i wanted to make sure with the admins it was allowed to pile up all wins on 1 person because personally i thought it sounded silly and didnt believe we would be allowed to do so, which turned out to be true.
just wanna give a big cheers to inferno online they have let me practice there for over a month for free and hosting such awesome events. i wish the guys who participate in it the best of luck and ill leave sjow to this one
i never meant to do anything that i knew was wrong. we were told it was allowed but once i got there it was completely different. all we have done really is just to ask if something was allowed by the admins and they said it was ok and will work something out, and later on changing their mind and then rakaka took it from there
That should about shut the drama queens up. Seriously why make a big deal out of this. T_T
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On December 23 2010 02:37 goldfishs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 01:51 On_Slaught wrote:On December 23 2010 01:41 goldfishs wrote:On December 23 2010 01:34 Tomken wrote:
Still matchfixing. Will people fucking calm down and get a grip. These are small tournaments with shit prices, and some of you is like omg MATCHFIXING BANN BANN BANN! 1. Nobody gives a shit about this tournament, there is absolutely no esteem in winning it. 2. They are not fixing matches unless you're sitting there betting money on them. 3. I do agree that it's bad sportsmanship and whatever, but what they want to do is their business, not yours. Terrible fallacious argument. The size of the tournament has no bearing on whether or not it is ok to do something like this. I'm saying that I'm okey with it because with the system they're having they were pretty much asking for it.
So if there's a flaw it must obviously be exploited, right?
I mean who gives a shit about competitive spirit, prestige, sponsorship, reputation and fans?
Your argument is terrible because it only looks from the selfish perspective of a player.
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On December 23 2010 02:37 goldfishs wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 01:51 On_Slaught wrote:On December 23 2010 01:41 goldfishs wrote:On December 23 2010 01:34 Tomken wrote:
Still matchfixing. Will people fucking calm down and get a grip. These are small tournaments with shit prices, and some of you is like omg MATCHFIXING BANN BANN BANN! 1. Nobody gives a shit about this tournament, there is absolutely no esteem in winning it. 2. They are not fixing matches unless you're sitting there betting money on them. 3. I do agree that it's bad sportsmanship and whatever, but what they want to do is their business, not yours. Terrible fallacious argument. The size of the tournament has no bearing on whether or not it is ok to do something like this. I'm saying that I'm okey with it because with the system they're having they were pretty much asking for it.
You are very right, I mean, the corner convenience store has no cameras at all, so they are pretty much asking for people to steal.
is my logic fucking good or what?
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On December 23 2010 02:16 REDBLUEGREEN wrote:LOL so many TL'ers without integrity and morals.
integrity and morals. huh? Looks to me like they asked to make sure it was OK with the LAN when it wasn't they changed their plan.
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What they were talking about doing/asked the admin about aside, do people think that one dropping out and them sharing the prize is cheating since thats what the tournament encourages?
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Asking if it's ok to fix matches doesn't make it ok lol
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EPT
