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+ Show Spoiler +On December 23 2010 02:28 MorroW wrote:
when we saw this event we quickly realized if both if us played it and won half of the tours then we wouldnt get the computer (there are about 16 tours and need 11 tour wins to get the computer). assuming we would win half of these each which would make us 3 steps away from getting it
so we asked maven if it was allowed to play the finals and give the win to the other player even if someone else won. for example if me and sjow met in finals and then we stacked all wins to sjows "thorphy table". he said he was ok and i thought it was ok going to IOL on the bus but when i got there it was not the case. we were not allowed to stack all wins to 1 player
in all honesty im far from a cheater, i have never cheated in my life and im a serious gamer.
i thought i could keep the stream on because its not like were gonna talk anything dirty about cheating. we were just honestly asking the admins of the tournament if it was allowed to give the wins to 1 player if we met in the finals. which was not allowed
and from here rakaka took over and made the story alot more interesting than it actually is haha
if its allowed by the admins to split wins like that then u shouldnt call the gamers cheaters or anything, then you should complaint to the admins and orga for allowing it to happen. me and sjow are good friends and we knew we would be the far superior players at this backdoor neighbour events thats why we wanted to work together so we wouldnt sabotage each other so nobody of us would get the computer, it actually makes alot of sense.
you cant blame players for things they do might be boring or lame, just when i abused reapers in the IEM germany, its imbalanced and i said it myself but you shouldnt call me a lame player for doing it, you should put the blame on the game for being imbalanced. its quite the same concept if u think about it really
me and sjow came to a new conclusion now anyway and we decided only 1 player should stay and play these tournaments and it turns out to be sjow. just to make it extra clear only 1 of us plays this because if both plays it theres a big risk neither of us gets the computer and that would be such a tragedy
lets just cheer for sjow to get the computer asap. if the cs players get 11 wins before sjow does, then they will take both the computers they have on their giveout and once sjow reach 11 wins he wont get any computer. thats why its so important that 1 person wins all tours in a row
many are talking about rigging games as in acting the finals when one player plays on purpose badly so he loses. we were never going to do this ofcourse. we were gonna play finals and have a nice time and let the best player win, and then give the actual prize wins to 1 person.
this is not anything like koreas match making scandal^^
ive been a member of the sc community for a long time and ive been a very mannered and competitive one aswell with high goals in the game.
it would never come to me to cheat in events and thats why i wanted to make sure with the admins it was allowed to pile up all wins on 1 person because personally i thought it sounded silly and didnt believe we would be allowed to do so, which turned out to be true.
just wanna give a big cheers to inferno online they have let me practice there for over a month for free and hosting such awesome events. i wish the guys who participate in it the best of luck and ill leave sjow to this one
i never meant to do anything that i knew was wrong. we were told it was allowed but once i got there it was completely different. all we have done really is just to ask if something was allowed by the admins and they said it was ok and will work something out, and later on changing their mind and then rakaka took it from there
Oh please, you are really going to bring balance into this discussion?
The fact is you were looking to match fix to get an easy computer. You were looking for the easiest way to get the prize, by slacking off competition. To make it worse you were doing this on a "small" no name tournament where the two of you could clean house.
Yeah financially we know how it makes sense. It's obvious, but don't talk about how you are a serious gamer when you just explained in depth how you were going blow off competition, blow off the game, to get the prize as easy as possible. You aren't a serious gamer, you just want the prize, even if you can get it by not even playing.
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On December 23 2010 02:25 Treemonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 02:12 Aberu wrote:On December 23 2010 02:06 zev318 wrote:On December 23 2010 02:05 Aberu wrote:On December 23 2010 01:50 Treemonkeys wrote:On December 23 2010 01:42 Aberu wrote:On December 23 2010 01:38 floor exercise wrote:On December 23 2010 01:33 Aberu wrote:On December 23 2010 01:21 zev318 wrote:
its like Idra throwing the final series vs QXC in EG masters for some extra cash, i bet all of you who thinks this isnt a big deal would fucking flip out. It's not the same as that. First off, this isn't a big tournament, this is a tiny LAN that has an incentive for winning a lot of the series. Morrow and Sjow wanted to play the matches, but they also wouldn't want to eliminate each other from earning their prize. Plenty of pro-gamers have done this in the past because they have little to no incentive to turn down an offer with the risk of losing thousands of dollars. You work your butt off all year to get good, you finally get to the point where you are confident you can make it to the finals and get 10,000 bucks. But the opponent says look whoever wins this we'll split it 50-50. 2nd place is 2,000 dollars. You would be fucking stupid not to split. Why stop there? Why not the top 4 of GSL collude to just split their combined prize pool 4 ways? It's probably about 35-40 grand each, which is really nice if none of them are the absolute favorites. It goes against the spirit of competition. People aren't going to like it no matter how many different ways you try to rationalize what they were trying to do. Well the fact is, it goes on all the time. Without anyone knowing. And when people are transparent it's a scandal. The pro teams from korea get paid well enough where they don't have a survival issue where they would do this. I had met progamers that were damn hear homeless from games that don't have the awesome sponsorship, and every win with their immense talent was important. They would always make top 4 at tournaments, but due to the crappy payouts they would split. Just because they were splitting doesn't mean they wouldn't play out the match, and try their best to win. The finals matches of smash were always amazing, but everyone splits. Because competition is more important to that community than who gets the money. If everyone splits, they will still try their absolute best to win, because winning matters more. That's like saying this murder is okay because there are plenty of others you never knew about. Hey murder is the same as trying to make money from a tournament! People do kill for money. Quit trolling, I was calling him out on his slippery-slope fallacy. Uh, no you weren't, you might have been trying to. I was comparing the excuse of "it happens all the time", I wasn't comparing match fixing to murder.
But you replaced match-fixing with murder. It's a bad debate tactic. It's appealing to sensationalism. Sort of like "that's what hilter would do!" or "if this were a serial murderer you would be okay with him too?"
Trying to emphasize your point that this isn't okay because murder isn't okay.
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On December 23 2010 02:46 zev318 wrote:
Asking if it's ok to fix matches doesn't make it ok lol
They did not ask to fix the matches. They said they would play the matches... whoever wins wins... but they asked if they could transfer the win to one side so they could maximize the prize pool. All they asked was this... They were told it was ok.
Morrow gets to the tourney.... he is told he cannot do this. They decided Sjow will be the only one playing in the tourney to maximize the prize pool.
is that ok? Is it ok to ask an admin if something is legal? get over it.
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On December 23 2010 02:46 Treemonkeys wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 23 2010 02:28 MorroW wrote:
when we saw this event we quickly realized if both if us played it and won half of the tours then we wouldnt get the computer (there are about 16 tours and need 11 tour wins to get the computer). assuming we would win half of these each which would make us 3 steps away from getting it
so we asked maven if it was allowed to play the finals and give the win to the other player even if someone else won. for example if me and sjow met in finals and then we stacked all wins to sjows "thorphy table". he said he was ok and i thought it was ok going to IOL on the bus but when i got there it was not the case. we were not allowed to stack all wins to 1 player
in all honesty im far from a cheater, i have never cheated in my life and im a serious gamer.
i thought i could keep the stream on because its not like were gonna talk anything dirty about cheating. we were just honestly asking the admins of the tournament if it was allowed to give the wins to 1 player if we met in the finals. which was not allowed
and from here rakaka took over and made the story alot more interesting than it actually is haha
if its allowed by the admins to split wins like that then u shouldnt call the gamers cheaters or anything, then you should complaint to the admins and orga for allowing it to happen. me and sjow are good friends and we knew we would be the far superior players at this backdoor neighbour events thats why we wanted to work together so we wouldnt sabotage each other so nobody of us would get the computer, it actually makes alot of sense.
you cant blame players for things they do might be boring or lame, just when i abused reapers in the IEM germany, its imbalanced and i said it myself but you shouldnt call me a lame player for doing it, you should put the blame on the game for being imbalanced. its quite the same concept if u think about it really
me and sjow came to a new conclusion now anyway and we decided only 1 player should stay and play these tournaments and it turns out to be sjow. just to make it extra clear only 1 of us plays this because if both plays it theres a big risk neither of us gets the computer and that would be such a tragedy
lets just cheer for sjow to get the computer asap. if the cs players get 11 wins before sjow does, then they will take both the computers they have on their giveout and once sjow reach 11 wins he wont get any computer. thats why its so important that 1 person wins all tours in a row
many are talking about rigging games as in acting the finals when one player plays on purpose badly so he loses. we were never going to do this ofcourse. we were gonna play finals and have a nice time and let the best player win, and then give the actual prize wins to 1 person.
this is not anything like koreas match making scandal^^
ive been a member of the sc community for a long time and ive been a very mannered and competitive one aswell with high goals in the game.
it would never come to me to cheat in events and thats why i wanted to make sure with the admins it was allowed to pile up all wins on 1 person because personally i thought it sounded silly and didnt believe we would be allowed to do so, which turned out to be true.
just wanna give a big cheers to inferno online they have let me practice there for over a month for free and hosting such awesome events. i wish the guys who participate in it the best of luck and ill leave sjow to this one
i never meant to do anything that i knew was wrong. we were told it was allowed but once i got there it was completely different. all we have done really is just to ask if something was allowed by the admins and they said it was ok and will work something out, and later on changing their mind and then rakaka took it from there Oh please, you are really going to bring balance into this discussion? The fact is you were looking to match fix to get an easy computer. You were looking for the easiest way to get the prize, by slacking off competition. To make it worse you were doing this on a "small" no name tournament where the two of you could clean house. Yeah financially we know how it makes sense. It's obvious, but don't talk about how you are a serious gamer when you just explained in depth how you were going blow off competition, blow off the game, to get the prize as easy as possible. You aren't a serious gamer, you just want the prize, even if you can get it by not even playing.
Clearly, the alternative was one of them letting the other one play alone.
The reason he brought up balance is because people to this day still like to drag up that reaper push and try to argue that morrow is a bad player because of his abusive strategies in the IEM finals. I've even seen that a couple of times in this thread which is just ridiculous.
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The emo TL crowd out in full force crying about shit today.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 23 2010 02:46 Treemonkeys wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 23 2010 02:28 MorroW wrote:
when we saw this event we quickly realized if both if us played it and won half of the tours then we wouldnt get the computer (there are about 16 tours and need 11 tour wins to get the computer). assuming we would win half of these each which would make us 3 steps away from getting it
so we asked maven if it was allowed to play the finals and give the win to the other player even if someone else won. for example if me and sjow met in finals and then we stacked all wins to sjows "thorphy table". he said he was ok and i thought it was ok going to IOL on the bus but when i got there it was not the case. we were not allowed to stack all wins to 1 player
in all honesty im far from a cheater, i have never cheated in my life and im a serious gamer.
i thought i could keep the stream on because its not like were gonna talk anything dirty about cheating. we were just honestly asking the admins of the tournament if it was allowed to give the wins to 1 player if we met in the finals. which was not allowed
and from here rakaka took over and made the story alot more interesting than it actually is haha
if its allowed by the admins to split wins like that then u shouldnt call the gamers cheaters or anything, then you should complaint to the admins and orga for allowing it to happen. me and sjow are good friends and we knew we would be the far superior players at this backdoor neighbour events thats why we wanted to work together so we wouldnt sabotage each other so nobody of us would get the computer, it actually makes alot of sense.
you cant blame players for things they do might be boring or lame, just when i abused reapers in the IEM germany, its imbalanced and i said it myself but you shouldnt call me a lame player for doing it, you should put the blame on the game for being imbalanced. its quite the same concept if u think about it really
me and sjow came to a new conclusion now anyway and we decided only 1 player should stay and play these tournaments and it turns out to be sjow. just to make it extra clear only 1 of us plays this because if both plays it theres a big risk neither of us gets the computer and that would be such a tragedy
lets just cheer for sjow to get the computer asap. if the cs players get 11 wins before sjow does, then they will take both the computers they have on their giveout and once sjow reach 11 wins he wont get any computer. thats why its so important that 1 person wins all tours in a row
many are talking about rigging games as in acting the finals when one player plays on purpose badly so he loses. we were never going to do this ofcourse. we were gonna play finals and have a nice time and let the best player win, and then give the actual prize wins to 1 person.
this is not anything like koreas match making scandal^^
ive been a member of the sc community for a long time and ive been a very mannered and competitive one aswell with high goals in the game.
it would never come to me to cheat in events and thats why i wanted to make sure with the admins it was allowed to pile up all wins on 1 person because personally i thought it sounded silly and didnt believe we would be allowed to do so, which turned out to be true.
just wanna give a big cheers to inferno online they have let me practice there for over a month for free and hosting such awesome events. i wish the guys who participate in it the best of luck and ill leave sjow to this one
i never meant to do anything that i knew was wrong. we were told it was allowed but once i got there it was completely different. all we have done really is just to ask if something was allowed by the admins and they said it was ok and will work something out, and later on changing their mind and then rakaka took it from there Oh please, you are really going to bring balance into this discussion? The fact is you were looking to match fix to get an easy computer. You were looking for the easiest way to get the prize, by slacking off competition. To make it worse you were doing this on a "small" no name tournament where the two of you could clean house. Yeah financially we know how it makes sense. It's obvious, but don't talk about how you are a serious gamer when you just explained in depth how you were going blow off competition, blow off the game, to get the prize as easy as possible. You aren't a serious gamer, you just want the prize, even if you can get it by not even playing.
According to Morrow they never talk anything about throwing matches. They asked if they could play the games and afterwards give the win to one of them even if he didn't win.
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Morrow,
The discussion of splitting games is considered match fixing and is cheating. You say you don't cheat, perhaps you are looking at it in terms of using hacks like income or map vision. But remember the same case this year which had Savior and GoGo end up being persecuted and prosecuted by authorities in Korea. Even though the administrators do not know any better. You do. I am really disappointed that high level play is about prize splitting. Very disappointing Morrow and Sjow.
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Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
I wonder why people had no problems with Koreans throwing matches at WCG to avoid eliminating each other, but suddenly some guys trying to abuse the system in a local tournament should be lynched.
In my opinion it is as much the organizer's fault as it is theirs. There should not be any incentive to throw matches just because of the tournament's format.
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On December 23 2010 02:52 Doriboi wrote:
Morrow,
The discussion of splitting games is considered match fixing and is cheating. You say you don't cheat, perhaps you are looking at it in terms of using hacks like income or map vision. But remember the same case this year which had Savior and GoGo end up being persecuted and prosecuted by authorities in Korea. Even though the administrators do not know any better. You do. I am really disappointed that high level play is about prize splitting. Very disappointing Morrow and Sjow.
Read the quote at the top of the OP? This is nothing like throwing games or even wanting to throw games.
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On December 23 2010 02:52 Batch wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 02:46 Treemonkeys wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 23 2010 02:28 MorroW wrote:
when we saw this event we quickly realized if both if us played it and won half of the tours then we wouldnt get the computer (there are about 16 tours and need 11 tour wins to get the computer). assuming we would win half of these each which would make us 3 steps away from getting it
so we asked maven if it was allowed to play the finals and give the win to the other player even if someone else won. for example if me and sjow met in finals and then we stacked all wins to sjows "thorphy table". he said he was ok and i thought it was ok going to IOL on the bus but when i got there it was not the case. we were not allowed to stack all wins to 1 player
in all honesty im far from a cheater, i have never cheated in my life and im a serious gamer.
i thought i could keep the stream on because its not like were gonna talk anything dirty about cheating. we were just honestly asking the admins of the tournament if it was allowed to give the wins to 1 player if we met in the finals. which was not allowed
and from here rakaka took over and made the story alot more interesting than it actually is haha
if its allowed by the admins to split wins like that then u shouldnt call the gamers cheaters or anything, then you should complaint to the admins and orga for allowing it to happen. me and sjow are good friends and we knew we would be the far superior players at this backdoor neighbour events thats why we wanted to work together so we wouldnt sabotage each other so nobody of us would get the computer, it actually makes alot of sense.
you cant blame players for things they do might be boring or lame, just when i abused reapers in the IEM germany, its imbalanced and i said it myself but you shouldnt call me a lame player for doing it, you should put the blame on the game for being imbalanced. its quite the same concept if u think about it really
me and sjow came to a new conclusion now anyway and we decided only 1 player should stay and play these tournaments and it turns out to be sjow. just to make it extra clear only 1 of us plays this because if both plays it theres a big risk neither of us gets the computer and that would be such a tragedy
lets just cheer for sjow to get the computer asap. if the cs players get 11 wins before sjow does, then they will take both the computers they have on their giveout and once sjow reach 11 wins he wont get any computer. thats why its so important that 1 person wins all tours in a row
many are talking about rigging games as in acting the finals when one player plays on purpose badly so he loses. we were never going to do this ofcourse. we were gonna play finals and have a nice time and let the best player win, and then give the actual prize wins to 1 person.
this is not anything like koreas match making scandal^^
ive been a member of the sc community for a long time and ive been a very mannered and competitive one aswell with high goals in the game.
it would never come to me to cheat in events and thats why i wanted to make sure with the admins it was allowed to pile up all wins on 1 person because personally i thought it sounded silly and didnt believe we would be allowed to do so, which turned out to be true.
just wanna give a big cheers to inferno online they have let me practice there for over a month for free and hosting such awesome events. i wish the guys who participate in it the best of luck and ill leave sjow to this one
i never meant to do anything that i knew was wrong. we were told it was allowed but once i got there it was completely different. all we have done really is just to ask if something was allowed by the admins and they said it was ok and will work something out, and later on changing their mind and then rakaka took it from there Oh please, you are really going to bring balance into this discussion? The fact is you were looking to match fix to get an easy computer. You were looking for the easiest way to get the prize, by slacking off competition. To make it worse you were doing this on a "small" no name tournament where the two of you could clean house. Yeah financially we know how it makes sense. It's obvious, but don't talk about how you are a serious gamer when you just explained in depth how you were going blow off competition, blow off the game, to get the prize as easy as possible. You aren't a serious gamer, you just want the prize, even if you can get it by not even playing. According to Morrow they never talk anything about throwing matches. They asked if they could play the games and afterwards give the win to one of them even if he didn't win.
Have you even read the OP? Sjow states this:
So we both agreed it would be better if we split the prizes and just let one of us win everyone. (we assumed we would go to the finals everytime since we would be in diffrent part of brackets because of seeds, we didnt see any harm in it.
We talked with the organisation and they didnt allow us to do fixed matches. Now only one of us gonna play.
Why are people arguing that they DIDNT want to fix their matches, it was the exact thing they wanted to do and later got denied from doing it so one of them dropped out.
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On December 23 2010 02:31 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 02:28 Hirnfrost wrote:On December 23 2010 02:22 Jibba wrote:
I'm curious how people would view this if one of them wasn't heavily favored to win the event.
Say TLO had also been invited, so instead of just fighting between themselves for the finals, they would have been working together to lower TLO's chances of getting to 11. Is that worse in people's opinions? I don´t understand how they could lower TLO´s chances? They would still have to beat him 1v1, it´s not like they could 2v1 him. TLO would have to beat two top tier players to win. They would only have to beat one. It's not the same as rolling 2 dice vs. 1, but it's like getting an extra roll.
no because they are paying for the extra roll......
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On December 23 2010 02:50 Aberu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 02:25 Treemonkeys wrote:On December 23 2010 02:12 Aberu wrote:On December 23 2010 02:06 zev318 wrote:On December 23 2010 02:05 Aberu wrote:On December 23 2010 01:50 Treemonkeys wrote:On December 23 2010 01:42 Aberu wrote:On December 23 2010 01:38 floor exercise wrote:On December 23 2010 01:33 Aberu wrote:On December 23 2010 01:21 zev318 wrote:
its like Idra throwing the final series vs QXC in EG masters for some extra cash, i bet all of you who thinks this isnt a big deal would fucking flip out. It's not the same as that. First off, this isn't a big tournament, this is a tiny LAN that has an incentive for winning a lot of the series. Morrow and Sjow wanted to play the matches, but they also wouldn't want to eliminate each other from earning their prize. Plenty of pro-gamers have done this in the past because they have little to no incentive to turn down an offer with the risk of losing thousands of dollars. You work your butt off all year to get good, you finally get to the point where you are confident you can make it to the finals and get 10,000 bucks. But the opponent says look whoever wins this we'll split it 50-50. 2nd place is 2,000 dollars. You would be fucking stupid not to split. Why stop there? Why not the top 4 of GSL collude to just split their combined prize pool 4 ways? It's probably about 35-40 grand each, which is really nice if none of them are the absolute favorites. It goes against the spirit of competition. People aren't going to like it no matter how many different ways you try to rationalize what they were trying to do. Well the fact is, it goes on all the time. Without anyone knowing. And when people are transparent it's a scandal. The pro teams from korea get paid well enough where they don't have a survival issue where they would do this. I had met progamers that were damn hear homeless from games that don't have the awesome sponsorship, and every win with their immense talent was important. They would always make top 4 at tournaments, but due to the crappy payouts they would split. Just because they were splitting doesn't mean they wouldn't play out the match, and try their best to win. The finals matches of smash were always amazing, but everyone splits. Because competition is more important to that community than who gets the money. If everyone splits, they will still try their absolute best to win, because winning matters more. That's like saying this murder is okay because there are plenty of others you never knew about. Hey murder is the same as trying to make money from a tournament! People do kill for money. Quit trolling, I was calling him out on his slippery-slope fallacy. Uh, no you weren't, you might have been trying to. I was comparing the excuse of "it happens all the time", I wasn't comparing match fixing to murder. But you replaced match-fixing with murder. It's a bad debate tactic. It's appealing to sensationalism. Sort of like "that's what hilter would do!" or "if this were a serial murderer you would be okay with him too?" Trying to emphasize your point that this isn't okay because murder isn't okay.
No, it was clearly showing that something happening all the time doesn't not make it okay. Murder and match fixing are two things that happen all the time. It's actually not sensational at all, it is comparing the same excuse in two different situations. I use murder because it is obvious in that case that just because it happens all the time, it's still not okay. So if it happens all the time in murder, but still isn't okay - then if it happens all the time in match fixing, that also does not necessarily mean it's okay. The point is that something happening all the time has no relevance to morality.
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On December 23 2010 02:46 Treemonkeys wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On December 23 2010 02:28 MorroW wrote:
when we saw this event we quickly realized if both if us played it and won half of the tours then we wouldnt get the computer (there are about 16 tours and need 11 tour wins to get the computer). assuming we would win half of these each which would make us 3 steps away from getting it
so we asked maven if it was allowed to play the finals and give the win to the other player even if someone else won. for example if me and sjow met in finals and then we stacked all wins to sjows "thorphy table". he said he was ok and i thought it was ok going to IOL on the bus but when i got there it was not the case. we were not allowed to stack all wins to 1 player
in all honesty im far from a cheater, i have never cheated in my life and im a serious gamer.
i thought i could keep the stream on because its not like were gonna talk anything dirty about cheating. we were just honestly asking the admins of the tournament if it was allowed to give the wins to 1 player if we met in the finals. which was not allowed
and from here rakaka took over and made the story alot more interesting than it actually is haha
if its allowed by the admins to split wins like that then u shouldnt call the gamers cheaters or anything, then you should complaint to the admins and orga for allowing it to happen. me and sjow are good friends and we knew we would be the far superior players at this backdoor neighbour events thats why we wanted to work together so we wouldnt sabotage each other so nobody of us would get the computer, it actually makes alot of sense.
you cant blame players for things they do might be boring or lame, just when i abused reapers in the IEM germany, its imbalanced and i said it myself but you shouldnt call me a lame player for doing it, you should put the blame on the game for being imbalanced. its quite the same concept if u think about it really
me and sjow came to a new conclusion now anyway and we decided only 1 player should stay and play these tournaments and it turns out to be sjow. just to make it extra clear only 1 of us plays this because if both plays it theres a big risk neither of us gets the computer and that would be such a tragedy
lets just cheer for sjow to get the computer asap. if the cs players get 11 wins before sjow does, then they will take both the computers they have on their giveout and once sjow reach 11 wins he wont get any computer. thats why its so important that 1 person wins all tours in a row
many are talking about rigging games as in acting the finals when one player plays on purpose badly so he loses. we were never going to do this ofcourse. we were gonna play finals and have a nice time and let the best player win, and then give the actual prize wins to 1 person.
this is not anything like koreas match making scandal^^
ive been a member of the sc community for a long time and ive been a very mannered and competitive one aswell with high goals in the game.
it would never come to me to cheat in events and thats why i wanted to make sure with the admins it was allowed to pile up all wins on 1 person because personally i thought it sounded silly and didnt believe we would be allowed to do so, which turned out to be true.
just wanna give a big cheers to inferno online they have let me practice there for over a month for free and hosting such awesome events. i wish the guys who participate in it the best of luck and ill leave sjow to this one
i never meant to do anything that i knew was wrong. we were told it was allowed but once i got there it was completely different. all we have done really is just to ask if something was allowed by the admins and they said it was ok and will work something out, and later on changing their mind and then rakaka took it from there Oh please, you are really going to bring balance into this discussion? The fact is you were looking to match fix to get an easy computer. You were looking for the easiest way to get the prize, by slacking off competition. To make it worse you were doing this on a "small" no name tournament where the two of you could clean house. Yeah financially we know how it makes sense. It's obvious, but don't talk about how you are a serious gamer when you just explained in depth how you were going blow off competition, blow off the game, to get the prize as easy as possible. You aren't a serious gamer, you just want the prize, even if you can get it by not even playing.
Dont talk such rot.
He didnt "slack off" to win, fucking read what the man says, and dont go off about a tangent about a few sentences talking about IEM. What he said there was that the rules of the tournament were lame (They are, since they give incentives to collusion), and as such they are kind of like reapers were. Or something. You´re not a serious TL poster, you just want to bitch and whine about something without fucking reading what you bitch and whine about.
If people still think this is a big deal, then they lack reading comprehension or are plain haters.
My 2c.
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On December 23 2010 02:18 dutpotd wrote:
Read this thread, I'm not sure what is more surprising -
a) that players with reputations behind them (something to lose) would be so careless about how they conduct themselves,
b) that an admin would be allowed to be an admin if he has close/personal ties to the players, or that an admin would be dumb enough to say yes (first off) to a plan that obviously exploits the setup of a tournament prize payout and goes against its purpose, i.e. to reward the single most consistent winner,
c) that anyone here defends either of these players based on size of tournament or inability to be "matchfixing" due to public participation/viewership/etc.
The truth, if all the facts in this thread are correct (and translations), is that this isn't exactly "matchfixing" in the historical meaning of the word, which usually involves third party gambling or interest in the outcome of a game. It is a concious decision/agreement between two players to exploit a prize system that was setup to give out a 'special' reward to a player that proved hismelf to be a consistent winner over all of his peers 11/18 of the time.
The mere fact that these two players are concerned that a setup like this will not see either of them walk away with the prize unfixed is proof that they don't deserve the grand prize, only a player that can 'earn' the majority of wins derserves it. If I was the tournament organizer or admin I wouldn't allow either of these players to compete after this incident.
Finally, blaming a 'poor' tournament structure for this is just wrong. The point of a strcuture like this is to provide incentive for players to compete in multiple tournaments, and to reward the player that wins an exceptionally high percentage of matches against other players of similar skill. The structure is fine, players should have enough integrity to realize and respect the reason for a setup and play within the rules to attempt to earn the best prize, not find flaws with it and exploit them.
Ultimately, this just supports the idea that the players involved value the prize more than the competition. Because, even if they are friends, as competitive players they should try to prove they are better than one another in any given day/match every given day/match. To do otherwise spits in the face of the spirit of the game.
Thank you, very well said post.
If the point of the setup is so an exceptional player wins the special prize (11 tour wins), then if one of them really deserved it, they would play it out. If they both lose out on the special prize then that`s too bad, they don`t deserve it. Exploiting the system takes away the spirit of the competition.
Atleast in the EG tournament you see Idra crushing his peers no matter what, denying them the special prize. They have to deserve it, and it is not like Idra has anything to lose. It isn`t his computer to give away. That keeps that special prize special.
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On December 23 2010 02:52 Doriboi wrote:
Morrow,
The discussion of splitting games is considered match fixing and is cheating. You say you don't cheat, perhaps you are looking at it in terms of using hacks like income or map vision. But remember the same case this year which had Savior and GoGo end up being persecuted and prosecuted by authorities in Korea. Even though the administrators do not know any better. You do. I am really disappointed that high level play is about prize splitting. Very disappointing Morrow and Sjow.
it's not cheating if it's allowed by the people who run the tourney T_T
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On December 23 2010 02:28 MorroW wrote:
when we saw this event we quickly realized if both if us played it and won half of the tours then we wouldnt get the computer (there are about 16 tours and need 11 tour wins to get the computer). assuming we would win half of these each which would make us 3 steps away from getting it
so we asked maven if it was allowed to play the finals and give the win to the other player even if someone else won. for example if me and sjow met in finals and then we stacked all wins to sjows "thorphy table". he said he was ok and i thought it was ok going to IOL on the bus but when i got there it was not the case. we were not allowed to stack all wins to 1 player
in all honesty im far from a cheater, i have never cheated in my life and im a serious gamer.
i thought i could keep the stream on because its not like were gonna talk anything dirty about cheating. we were just honestly asking the admins of the tournament if it was allowed to give the wins to 1 player if we met in the finals. which was not allowed
and from here rakaka took over and made the story alot more interesting than it actually is haha
if its allowed by the admins to split wins like that then u shouldnt call the gamers cheaters or anything, then you should complaint to the admins and orga for allowing it to happen. me and sjow are good friends and we knew we would be the far superior players at this backdoor neighbour events thats why we wanted to work together so we wouldnt sabotage each other so nobody of us would get the computer, it actually makes alot of sense.
you cant blame players for things they do might be boring or lame, just when i abused reapers in the IEM germany, its imbalanced and i said it myself but you shouldnt call me a lame player for doing it, you should put the blame on the game for being imbalanced. its quite the same concept if u think about it really
me and sjow came to a new conclusion now anyway and we decided only 1 player should stay and play these tournaments and it turns out to be sjow. just to make it extra clear only 1 of us plays this because if both plays it theres a big risk neither of us gets the computer and that would be such a tragedy
lets just cheer for sjow to get the computer asap. if the cs players get 11 wins before sjow does, then they will take both the computers they have on their giveout and once sjow reach 11 wins he wont get any computer. thats why its so important that 1 person wins all tours in a row
many are talking about rigging games as in acting the finals when one player plays on purpose badly so he loses. we were never going to do this ofcourse. we were gonna play finals and have a nice time and let the best player win, and then give the actual prize wins to 1 person.
this is not anything like koreas match making scandal^^
ive been a member of the sc community for a long time and ive been a very mannered and competitive one aswell with high goals in the game.
it would never come to me to cheat in events and thats why i wanted to make sure with the admins it was allowed to pile up all wins on 1 person because personally i thought it sounded silly and didnt believe we would be allowed to do so, which turned out to be true.
just wanna give a big cheers to inferno online they have let me practice there for over a month for free and hosting such awesome events. i wish the guys who participate in it the best of luck and ill leave sjow to this one
i never meant to do anything that i knew was wrong. we were told it was allowed but once i got there it was completely different. all we have done really is just to ask if something was allowed by the admins and they said it was ok and will work something out, and later on changing their mind and then rakaka took it from there
this should be added to the OP
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 23 2010 02:28 MorroW wrote:
when we saw this event we quickly realized if both if us played it and won half of the tours then we wouldnt get the computer (there are about 16 tours and need 11 tour wins to get the computer). assuming we would win half of these each which would make us 3 steps away from getting it
so we asked maven if it was allowed to play the finals and give the win to the other player even if someone else won. for example if me and sjow met in finals and then we stacked all wins to sjows "thorphy table". he said he was ok and i thought it was ok going to IOL on the bus but when i got there it was not the case. we were not allowed to stack all wins to 1 player
in all honesty im far from a cheater, i have never cheated in my life and im a serious gamer.
i thought i could keep the stream on because its not like were gonna talk anything dirty about cheating. we were just honestly asking the admins of the tournament if it was allowed to give the wins to 1 player if we met in the finals. which was not allowed
and from here rakaka took over and made the story alot more interesting than it actually is haha
if its allowed by the admins to split wins like that then u shouldnt call the gamers cheaters or anything, then you should complaint to the admins and orga for allowing it to happen. me and sjow are good friends and we knew we would be the far superior players at this backdoor neighbour events thats why we wanted to work together so we wouldnt sabotage each other so nobody of us would get the computer, it actually makes alot of sense.
you cant blame players for things they do might be boring or lame, just when i abused reapers in the IEM germany, its imbalanced and i said it myself but you shouldnt call me a lame player for doing it, you should put the blame on the game for being imbalanced. its quite the same concept if u think about it really
me and sjow came to a new conclusion now anyway and we decided only 1 player should stay and play these tournaments and it turns out to be sjow. just to make it extra clear only 1 of us plays this because if both plays it theres a big risk neither of us gets the computer and that would be such a tragedy
lets just cheer for sjow to get the computer asap. if the cs players get 11 wins before sjow does, then they will take both the computers they have on their giveout and once sjow reach 11 wins he wont get any computer. thats why its so important that 1 person wins all tours in a row
many are talking about rigging games as in acting the finals when one player plays on purpose badly so he loses. we were never going to do this ofcourse. we were gonna play finals and have a nice time and let the best player win, and then give the actual prize wins to 1 person.
this is not anything like koreas match making scandal^^
ive been a member of the sc community for a long time and ive been a very mannered and competitive one aswell with high goals in the game.
it would never come to me to cheat in events and thats why i wanted to make sure with the admins it was allowed to pile up all wins on 1 person because personally i thought it sounded silly and didnt believe we would be allowed to do so, which turned out to be true.
just wanna give a big cheers to inferno online they have let me practice there for over a month for free and hosting such awesome events. i wish the guys who participate in it the best of luck and ill leave sjow to this one
i never meant to do anything that i knew was wrong. we were told it was allowed but once i got there it was completely different. all we have done really is just to ask if something was allowed by the admins and they said it was ok and will work something out, and later on changing their mind and then rakaka took it from there
Put this in the OP and lock the thread imo. The amount of haters who can't be arsed to read is disgusting.
edit: oh and go SjoW, now make sure to get that computer! 
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On December 23 2010 02:31 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2010 02:28 Hirnfrost wrote:On December 23 2010 02:22 Jibba wrote:
I'm curious how people would view this if one of them wasn't heavily favored to win the event.
Say TLO had also been invited, so instead of just fighting between themselves for the finals, they would have been working together to lower TLO's chances of getting to 11. Is that worse in people's opinions? I don´t understand how they could lower TLO´s chances? They would still have to beat him 1v1, it´s not like they could 2v1 him. TLO would have to beat two top tier players to win. They would only have to beat one. It's not the same as rolling 2 dice vs. 1, but it's like getting an extra roll.
TLO still have to win the same number of games if they "cooperate".
Morrow and SjoW could win by playing one game less. They do however only get half of the price each.
Maybe unfair to the viewers who won't be able to get to see a game where they played about a lot of price money, but not unfair to the other players.
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Can we just ignore the thread title and rakakas headlines and stop talking about match fixing?
Match fixing is where one player purposely loses a match. Nothing else.
If one player just _asks_ the tournament admin if he could give away his "win token" _after_ the match has been played is not match fixing.
If a player choses not to enter the tournament to give his friend better chances of winning is not match fixing either.
The whole thing has been blown out of proportion by rakakas sensationalist news reporting and people lacking the attention span to read more than headlines.
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On December 23 2010 02:53 Random() wrote:
I wonder why people had no problems with Koreans throwing matches at WCG to avoid eliminating each other, but suddenly some guys trying to abuse the system in a local tournament should be lynched.
In my opinion it is as much the organizer's fault as it is theirs. There should not be any incentive to throw matches just because of the tournament's format.
I wonder why people take random forum posts from different times and different people and act like it is a single individual saying everything so then they act like a collective group is a single hypocritical individual?
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EPT
