EPTMorrow and Sjow Matchfixing? - Page 10
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11cc
Finland561 Posts
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L_Master
United States8017 Posts
They wanted to fix the finals because if they competed wholeheartedly in the finals then it's likely neither would have gotten the prize, which is only awarded for winning 11 of 18. Okay, they wanted to be able to have the grand prize. Not too big of a deal. They wanted to set the matches so that one would lose if the final. Again, this probably isn't allowed, but they have some legitimate reasons for wanting to see. Now, here is the important part. They then checked with officials to see if it would be okay to do so. They were told no, and of course agreed they wouldn't matchfix in any way and only one would participate. This is like going to a golf tournament with a new ball thats supposed to go thirty yards further. Your pretty sure however, that it is non conforming and thus illegal. You then ask the rules officials if this ball meets the conforming standards. You are told no, and this don't use the ball. This is in no way cheating, and I don't see how anyone can view it as such. I'm legitamately baffled. | ||
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Cathasaigh
United States285 Posts
On December 22 2010 16:16 Biggo wrote: This is why I see it as cheating: -To win the major prize the tournament organiser has ruled that you have to clearly be the best player (ie win 11/18 games) -It seems neither Sjow or Morrow felt confident enough in their own skill to believe they could do it -They then tried to work out a plan to get the main prize by handing one free wins So for me, the intention to cheat was there. That they asked the admin and didn't go ahead is a good thing, but then again, did you only check with the admin because this was leaked? Felt confident enough in their own skill to believe they could do it? It was clear they would most like meet in the finals every time and it could very easily end up split 9-9 or 8-10 between the two of them. So seeing as how they're both friends why would they screw each other out of prizes? It's not like this is some elaborate scheme to get one of them to the finals and hopefully win something, they were both gonna be meeting in the finals. | ||
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Shika
Sweden1711 Posts
On December 22 2010 16:16 Biggo wrote: This is why I see it as cheating: -To win the major prize the tournament organiser has ruled that you have to clearly be the best player (ie win 11/18 games) -It seems neither Sjow or Morrow felt confident enough in their own skill to believe they could do it -They then tried to work out a plan to get the main prize by handing one free wins So for me, the intention to cheat was there. That they asked the admin and didn't go ahead is a good thing, but then again, did you only check with the admin because this was leaked? Oh come on.. First of all they would be in different brackets every tournament because they are seeded highest. "Not confident to win".. The reason why they would have to not give it their best against each other is because they are confident they will destroy their brackets and make it to the finals in pretty much all of the tours, so the only thing keeping any of them from claiming the big price would be them screwing each other over by winning against each other. Stop trying to stir up stuff out of nothing, you obviously are not aware of the tournament layout so don't post in absolutes based on misinterpreted rulesets. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
On December 22 2010 16:09 cskalias.pbe wrote: The utility curve of each player is more than just the computer prize. You also have to take into consideration all future benefits of playing SC2 which are drastically reduced after allegations/plans of match fixing. Game Theory FTW. Go rationalize Match Fixing some more. Actually don't. Just stop posting. Pshhh taking things too seriously. This is why the prisoner's dilemma is not a real life scenario and is just hypothetical. I'm just having fun. If you can chill, chill. | ||
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iggyfisk
Sweden212 Posts
On December 22 2010 16:23 L_Master wrote: Seriosuly, do people read threads? Like, at all? From Sjow's explanation this doesn't sound like an issue whatsoever Okay, they wanted to be able to have the grand prize. Not too big of a deal. They wanted to set the matches so that one would lose if the final. Again, this probably isn't allowed, but they have some legitimate reasons for wanting to see. Now, here is the important part. They then checked with officials to see if it would be okay to do so. They were told no, and of course agreed they wouldn't matchfix in any way and only one would participate. This is like going to a golf tournament with a new ball thats supposed to go thirty yards further. Your pretty sure however, that it is non conforming and thus illegal. You then ask the rules officials if this ball meets the conforming standards. You are told no, and this don't use the ball. This is in no way cheating, and I don't see how anyone can view it as such. I'm legitamately baffled. Sorry kid, theres a golfdonuts.net forum that never bans dogshit posters that is now FURIOUS that you planned to cheat and to be honest you should never be allowed in golfing competitions again. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
But they didnt. They asked if it was ok first.  | ||
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Cathasaigh
United States285 Posts
On December 22 2010 16:23 L_Master wrote: Seriosuly, do people read threads? Like, at all? From Sjow's explanation this doesn't sound like an issue whatsoever Okay, they wanted to be able to have the grand prize. Not too big of a deal. They wanted to set the matches so that one would lose if the final. Again, this probably isn't allowed, but they have some legitimate reasons for wanting to see. Now, here is the important part. They then checked with officials to see if it would be okay to do so. They were told no, and of course agreed they wouldn't matchfix in any way and only one would participate. This is like going to a golf tournament with a new ball thats supposed to go thirty yards further. Your pretty sure however, that it is non conforming and thus illegal. You then ask the rules officials if this ball meets the conforming standards. You are told no, and this don't use the ball. This is in no way cheating, and I don't see how anyone can view it as such. I'm legitamately baffled. Seriously, this is like a perfect example. | ||
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Brutus
Netherlands284 Posts
Just because its small doesn't make it right on any lvl. You can argue about the way the prize is setup, that doesn't make it right to match fix. The reaction from sjow is ridiculous. Just admit you guys made a big mistake and apologize. Instead you say "its just a small tournament np get over it". My respect for the both of you was already very low, but it has reached an all time low. Look at idra who faces huk and qxc for a notebook he can't even win, but still rolls them over. And don't give me that shitty argument that that one is being broadcasted because that doesn't fucking matter. Shame on you | ||
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hmunkey
United Kingdom1973 Posts
Edit: Based on what Sjow said, they didn't actually fix anything and because of that, the title should be changed. It seems that they actually asked the tournament manager before doing anything anyways. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On December 22 2010 16:26 Brutus wrote: Shame on you Shame on you for not reading enough, actually. They decided to check if it was ok, asking the organizers, instead of just doing it anyway. They could have done it - they decided to ask first. The organizers said no. They didnt do it. You would seriously ban two people for asking an admin if something is allowed, and then not doing it when the admin says its not allowed. You would ban them for that? Shame on YOU, man. Lol. I would hate to play in a tournament you organized. | ||
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nkr
Sweden5451 Posts
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Cathasaigh
United States285 Posts
On December 22 2010 16:26 Brutus wrote: How can there be no fucking issue? They are openly match fixing on stream. You guys are lucky I am not in charge of tournaments because I would've banned you two for future tournaments. Just because its small doesn't make it right on any lvl. You can argue about the way the prize is setup, that doesn't make it right to match fix. The reaction from sjow is ridiculous. Just admit you guys made a big mistake and apologize. Instead you say "its just a small tournament np get over it". My respect for the both of you was already very low, but it has reached an all time low. Look at idra who faces huk and qxc for a notebook he can't even win, but still rolls them over. And don't give me that shitty argument that that one is being broadcasted because that doesn't fucking matter. Shame on you There's no issue because they asked the admins if they both got to the finals if they would be allowed to give one a win to help them get the grand prize, the admin said no, THEY DIDN'T DO IT. Coming up with an idea, no matter how stupid, isn't an issue if you check if it's allowed before hand and then don't do it if it's not. | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
I'm very glad that Sjow came in here to clear up what actually ended up happening, and my opinion of neither player has been lowered. If anything, I think this is a result of the cafe being greedy and putting on an event which discourages competition between the best players. If they were evenly matched, and they split the tournaments 9-9, then neither would get the large prize, but if one of them forfeited only 2 or the finals of the tournaments, then one could actually attain the large prize. The cafe put up a very good prize with the expectation that no one would realistically be able to win it. I actually find that worse than what Morrow and Sjow were planning. They simply wanted to draw more people into their cafe, make more money, and then keep the prize. It's really a very stupid format. It's like if for the GSL you won 100,000$ if you 5-0ed your opponent in the finals, but it would be split 2,000$ and 1,000$ if you did anything else... I'm all for the competitiveness of eSports and the spirit of competition, but at the end of the day it's professional gaming. They need to make money, hence the word professional. If anything, I think this reflects a need for more tournaments, sponsors, and larger prize pools, so progamers can actually make money and not need to find ways to maximize profit from the small amount of tournaments available. | ||
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Brutus
Netherlands284 Posts
On December 22 2010 16:28 vOdToasT wrote: Shame on you for not reading enough, actually. They decided to check if it was ok, asking the organizers, instead of just doing it anyway. They could have done it - they decided to ask first. The organizers said no. They didnt do it. You would seriously ban two people for asking an admin if something is allowed, and then not doing it when the admin says its not allowed. You would ban them for that? Shame on YOU, man. Lol. I would hate to play in a tournament you organized. just to think about match fixing and setting it up is enough for me. of course they shouldn't be banned because they didn't actually do it, but it is so dishonourable. How can you defend them? And they actually eliminated the chance 1 of them will win it. Of 1 wins it expect a shitstorm | ||
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Biggo
Australia185 Posts
On December 22 2010 16:24 Cathasaigh wrote: Felt confident enough in their own skill to believe they could do it? It was clear they would most like meet in the finals every time and it could very easily end up split 9-9 or 8-10 between the two of them. So seeing as how they're both friends why would they screw each other out of prizes? It's not like this is some elaborate scheme to get one of them to the finals and hopefully win something, they were both gonna be meeting in the finals. But the way the competition was structured was that you don't get a prize for making it to the finals, you get the prize for winning the finals. My comment was they didn't feel confident they could win 11 finals, which is what the competition required. If you don't like a tournaments structure, don't join it. Don't try to conspire with the other best player in it to ensure one of you gets the prize if you haven't earned it fairly. Granted they didn't go through with it which is good for everybody involved, but the initial intention was not good. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On December 22 2010 16:34 Brutus wrote: just to think about match fixing and setting it up is enough for me. of course they shouldn't be banned because they didn't actually do it, but it is so dishonourable. How can you defend them? And they actually eliminated the chance 1 of them will win it. Of 1 wins it expect a shitstorm Well, you said you would ban them, did you not? Or did I misunderstand what you typed? Sure, you can criticize their intention, but in the end, they didnt do anything. So stop acting like they did. All they are guilty of is considering and wanting to do something. If you dont like that, critisize it all you want, but PLEASE, dont act like thats not all they are guilty of. | ||
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Grebliv
Iceland800 Posts
On December 22 2010 16:34 Brutus wrote: just to think about match fixing and setting it up is enough for me. of course they shouldn't be banned because they didn't actually do it, but it is so dishonourable. How can you defend them? And they actually eliminated the chance 1 of them will win it. Of 1 wins it expect a shitstorm to quote a someone "r u for rela?" | ||
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Aegeis
United States1619 Posts
Assuming 16/32 players showed up played all their games and come to learn that the the finalist aren't going to play is so unfair to them. | ||
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MorNin
United States443 Posts
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