|
Well the thing is that KESPA is a large corporation seeking profit while the teams that play in their tournaments are sponsored by large corporations who view progamers as investments. Prize pools in Starcraft 2 will never be big unless it's like BW progaming.
|
I for one, hope the beasts from bw will cross over soon. Not hating on bw, but it's inevitable and I want as much talent in SC2 as possible..
|
Well the prize pools in SC2 are in fact bigger than in BW, but there's nothing like a regular salary by the teams right now because every team lacks in sponsorship at the moment (maybe except Slayers).
|
On December 21 2010 10:55 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 07:27 Mogwai wrote:On December 21 2010 07:21 JiYan wrote:
if you've been with your girlfriend for 12 years and you truly love her, would you throw that away for a stranger with jessica alba's looks? bad analogy, this is their source of income not their spouse. bad analogy, she looks like jessica alba
shes better looking than jessica alba, has three computer based uni degrees and the most pimped out sc capable pc youve ever seen a lady have
|
Currently, SC2 is what BW B-league use to be. It's where the has-beens and never-could-be's go. At least it's giving these players a way to make a living, but unless Blizzard gets its act together and fixes SC2 to be more about skill and less about luck/cheese, the status quo will continue.
|
Pros got yearly contracts with the best geting from 100k to 300k $ .Thats Only if they dont win anything of importance. If you win proleague and OSL/MSL you get bonuses and still 50k~ for starleague is good enough. And to mention that all their living expenses are covered. You cant expect the very best to switch when we havent even seen any middle rank A teamers transitioning with the exeption of MVP.
Now lets see in SC2 we got BoxeR, NaDa, July who were really bad at the Start of SC2 and didnt even played a single Game in ages. So they had few options : retire, be a coach, transition Into SC2. It was logical for them to transition with SC2.
And lol with the ppl here that are like " hmm Flash,JD,Bisu,Stork cant really be sure that they will own SC2 " . The very best players right now are MC aka  IrOn and  ZergBong aka NesTea who were known as the worst of the worst for their respectable races in BW. And together with the rest who i dont even recognize are the owning SC2. Can you imagine what will happen if the best of the best start playing?
|
You know, there's always these people trying to bring the SC2 vs. BW debate into this, and it's just getting frustrating. Not only is it incredibly old, it's also irrelevant; I highly doubt that if the money dried up in the BW scene anyone would not switch because they personally like BW better.
|
IrOn being known as "the worst of the worst" protoss in BW is kind of a stretch
|
Because SC2 is no where near as good a game as Brood War. BW players love BW. Simple as that. Plus they are manlier.
Easy answer, yes?
|
On December 21 2010 11:21 dagene wrote:IrOn being known as "the worst of the worst" protoss in BW is kind of a stretch
Damned straight. Let's have some respect for PokJu.
|
Broodwar elitists attack in force! Run for cover!
But seriously, I'm gonna have to agree with most of the broodwar fans here. SC2 is too young, and too cheesy to be considered a viable career path for established pros who have a contracted salary.
|
United States47024 Posts
On December 21 2010 10:50 Omigawa wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 10:44 krndandaman wrote:On December 21 2010 10:33 Omigawa wrote:
All the people saying it's economics, that just doesn't make sense, at least for the very top level players in BW. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, and Stork would be at the top of SC2 within a matter of months, and with GSL's million won prize pool there's no question that they would stand to make a LOT more money than they currently are.
Now, for all of the mere mortals playing BW the economic argument makes sense. Even in real sports, salaries are what determine where the athletes play... if there was no salary in the NBA/NFL then the lower tier guys would go play ball in Europe (assuming the EU leagues did have a salary). Why would you risk not getting paid (even if the performance-based payout of the hypothetical NBA/NFL is greater) when you could make a stable salary in a less volatile? And of course the comparisons aren't really valid because NBA/NFL is equivalent to BW and European basketball/NFL Europa (even though it no longer exists) are equivalent to SC2 in terms of their pro scene.
However, I think this argument will become less valid as the pro scene for SC2 develops and team begin to pick up sponsors. no? Flash and Jaedong, iirc make over or close to $100k per year from salary. (someone confirm this for me, but either way it's much more than the 1st place prize for GSL) also, these 2 are usually the ones who win MSL/OSL which is another $35,000 or so for each one. 4 msl/osl's per year, yearly salary, established bw fanbase, other sponsorships, team you've been with for years, game you've been playing for years (and know inside and out), etc. it's a no brainer that Jaedong,Flash,Bisu,Stork make so much more guaranteed and potential money from BW than GSL. Assuming the $100k (USD I assume?) is in fact true, they have a much higher earning potential in GSL. 1st place is $87k, 2nd is 35k... so all they would have to do is make sure they finish in the same spots they have in BW (the harder game) and they would triple or quadruple their earnings. IntoTheRainbow earned more than what you are telling me Flash and Jaedong make... and he did that in the span of two months.
The $100,000 USD figure is an underestimate. Flash stated in an interview once that his salary was on the order ot $200,000-$300,000 USD.
Also, bear in mind that this is their SALARY. It's entirely independent of their tournament winnings in MSL/OSL. Anything they make there is in addition to their salary.
|
On December 21 2010 07:21 JiYan wrote:
if you've been with your girlfriend for 12 years and you truly love her, would you throw that away for a stranger with jessica alba's looks?
Yessssss, unless she was Megan Fox. Then I would have to think about it a little.
|
On December 21 2010 11:20 Redmark wrote:
You know, there's always these people trying to bring the SC2 vs. BW debate into this, and it's just getting frustrating. Not only is it incredibly old, it's also irrelevant; I highly doubt that if the money dried up in the BW scene anyone would not switch because they personally like BW better.
i think the more pertinent questions is this: if both games had their money "dry up", would the progamers switch over?
|
I think the simple fact that SC2 is already a great deal more popular in everywhere that isn't Korea than BW was (as far as I know, I might be talking out of my ass), it's only inevitable that the best will eventually play SC2 instead of BW. There will just be more money in it. That's my prediction, anyway.
It's also what I hope. SC2 is "my" game, and I want the best players playing it. If that means the foreigners will have to be knocked back down for a while, so be it. Either way I think the foreigners and the koreans will be much more evenly skilled in SC2, simply because the popularity of the game will bring more opportunities to foreigners that are similar to koreans in BW (and now SC2).
Again, I might be completely wrong. This is the internet, after all.
|
On December 21 2010 11:31 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 10:50 Omigawa wrote:On December 21 2010 10:44 krndandaman wrote:On December 21 2010 10:33 Omigawa wrote:
All the people saying it's economics, that just doesn't make sense, at least for the very top level players in BW. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, and Stork would be at the top of SC2 within a matter of months, and with GSL's million won prize pool there's no question that they would stand to make a LOT more money than they currently are.
Now, for all of the mere mortals playing BW the economic argument makes sense. Even in real sports, salaries are what determine where the athletes play... if there was no salary in the NBA/NFL then the lower tier guys would go play ball in Europe (assuming the EU leagues did have a salary). Why would you risk not getting paid (even if the performance-based payout of the hypothetical NBA/NFL is greater) when you could make a stable salary in a less volatile? And of course the comparisons aren't really valid because NBA/NFL is equivalent to BW and European basketball/NFL Europa (even though it no longer exists) are equivalent to SC2 in terms of their pro scene.
However, I think this argument will become less valid as the pro scene for SC2 develops and team begin to pick up sponsors. no? Flash and Jaedong, iirc make over or close to $100k per year from salary. (someone confirm this for me, but either way it's much more than the 1st place prize for GSL) also, these 2 are usually the ones who win MSL/OSL which is another $35,000 or so for each one. 4 msl/osl's per year, yearly salary, established bw fanbase, other sponsorships, team you've been with for years, game you've been playing for years (and know inside and out), etc. it's a no brainer that Jaedong,Flash,Bisu,Stork make so much more guaranteed and potential money from BW than GSL. Assuming the $100k (USD I assume?) is in fact true, they have a much higher earning potential in GSL. 1st place is $87k, 2nd is 35k... so all they would have to do is make sure they finish in the same spots they have in BW (the harder game) and they would triple or quadruple their earnings. IntoTheRainbow earned more than what you are telling me Flash and Jaedong make... and he did that in the span of two months. The $100,000 USD figure is an underestimate. Flash stated in an interview once that his salary was on the order ot $200,000-$300,000 USD. Also, bear in mind that this is their SALARY. It's entirely independent of their tournament winnings in MSL/OSL. Anything they make there is in addition to their salary.
I thought most of the prize money went to the sponsor?
|
On December 21 2010 11:10 LoLAdriankat wrote:
Well the thing is that KESPA is a large corporation seeking profit while the teams that play in their tournaments are sponsored by large corporations who view progamers as investments. Prize pools in Starcraft 2 will never be big unless it's like BW progaming.
I'm really sick of this misconception. The corporations sponsoring the teams are the ones looking for profit. KeSPA uses the profit it makes to reinvest into the scene, hence the term non-profit organization.
|
On December 21 2010 11:41 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2010 11:31 TheYango wrote:On December 21 2010 10:50 Omigawa wrote:On December 21 2010 10:44 krndandaman wrote:On December 21 2010 10:33 Omigawa wrote:
All the people saying it's economics, that just doesn't make sense, at least for the very top level players in BW. Flash, Jaedong, Bisu, and Stork would be at the top of SC2 within a matter of months, and with GSL's million won prize pool there's no question that they would stand to make a LOT more money than they currently are.
Now, for all of the mere mortals playing BW the economic argument makes sense. Even in real sports, salaries are what determine where the athletes play... if there was no salary in the NBA/NFL then the lower tier guys would go play ball in Europe (assuming the EU leagues did have a salary). Why would you risk not getting paid (even if the performance-based payout of the hypothetical NBA/NFL is greater) when you could make a stable salary in a less volatile? And of course the comparisons aren't really valid because NBA/NFL is equivalent to BW and European basketball/NFL Europa (even though it no longer exists) are equivalent to SC2 in terms of their pro scene.
However, I think this argument will become less valid as the pro scene for SC2 develops and team begin to pick up sponsors. no? Flash and Jaedong, iirc make over or close to $100k per year from salary. (someone confirm this for me, but either way it's much more than the 1st place prize for GSL) also, these 2 are usually the ones who win MSL/OSL which is another $35,000 or so for each one. 4 msl/osl's per year, yearly salary, established bw fanbase, other sponsorships, team you've been with for years, game you've been playing for years (and know inside and out), etc. it's a no brainer that Jaedong,Flash,Bisu,Stork make so much more guaranteed and potential money from BW than GSL. Assuming the $100k (USD I assume?) is in fact true, they have a much higher earning potential in GSL. 1st place is $87k, 2nd is 35k... so all they would have to do is make sure they finish in the same spots they have in BW (the harder game) and they would triple or quadruple their earnings. IntoTheRainbow earned more than what you are telling me Flash and Jaedong make... and he did that in the span of two months. The $100,000 USD figure is an underestimate. Flash stated in an interview once that his salary was on the order ot $200,000-$300,000 USD. Also, bear in mind that this is their SALARY. It's entirely independent of their tournament winnings in MSL/OSL. Anything they make there is in addition to their salary. I thought most of the prize money went to the sponsor?
No, where the hell did you get that ? We're in 2010, not 2001. Flash gave all his prize money to his parents.
|
I think SC2 will be bigger than BW in the near future (2 - 3 years). It's not going to be because people switch, but rather newcomers will be coming into SC2 instead of BW.
Eventually there won't be enough new BW progamers to sustain the scene.
|
on the subject of counterstrike:
cs1.6/css is a different matter because both games were played semi-pro/casually until CGS hit, which made about 80css players able to earn a living with a salary from it, during that period there were a few good tournaments and people in css were happy.
personally, I feel that SC2 isn't too cheesy and we just need to get better at scouting and trying less risky build orders, i was watching the EG masters event yesterday and saw a "good player" lose to a cloaked banshee rush because they didnt build a robotics facility, its ridiculous.
however, i agree to the point that the game is in a state of flux and its too variable for a pro to switch, everytime i play sc2 i feel that the tempo and dynamics of the game have changed. My last 6 games took over 30minutes in Real Time each compared to 7-14minute games a couple of weeks ago. especially in pvp.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
