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Blizzard reverting some patch 1.2 changes - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
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DizzyDrone
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands629 Posts
December 07 2010 07:37 GMT
#121
just a little hint for you protoss players out there, you can spread phoenixes against fungal growth the same way you can spread mutalisks against thors.
Gotmog
Profile Joined October 2010
Serbia899 Posts
December 07 2010 07:37 GMT
#122
On December 07 2010 15:53 Griffith` wrote:
So basically, terran gets another nerf (scv repair), zerg still op as hell late game, protoss better early game and easy access to air.

And yet, T is still dominating left and right. (also, it's not a nerf since bunkers are staying the same....)


Anyway, great change to fungal, hope they do this more often, it's great idea to test things out like this.
People just overreacted cuz they/we had no way of knowing that these changes have little chance of actually taking place. (Also, now no zerg is going to whine about phenoix buff kkeke :D)
Once again, day9 was right ^^
"When you play the game of drones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground"
Kishkumen
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States650 Posts
December 07 2010 07:39 GMT
#123
Somewhere in South Korea, IdrA and Artosis are opening bottles of champagne and giggling.

Overall though, it looks like they made good decisions and took out the worst changes from a community perspective. Let this be a reminder to the doubters that Blizzard does occasionally listen to the community.
Weird, last time I checked the UN said you need to have at least 200 APM and be rainbow league to be called human. —Liquid`TLO
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10301 Posts
December 07 2010 07:40 GMT
#124
mad probs to Blizz for listening to the community
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
Megaliskuu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5123 Posts
December 07 2010 07:41 GMT
#125
The change to fungal is a godsend. Thank you Blizzard .
|BW>Everything|Add me on star2 KR server TheMuTaL.675 for practice games :)|NEX clan| https://www.dotabuff.com/players/183104694
Dingobloo
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1903 Posts
December 07 2010 07:42 GMT
#126
On December 07 2010 16:37 DizzyDrone wrote:
just a little hint for you protoss players out there, you can spread phoenixes against fungal growth the same way you can spread mutalisks against thors.


So we agree that the radius of fungal should be reduced to 0.5!
ectonym
Profile Joined July 2010
United States147 Posts
December 07 2010 07:47 GMT
#127
On December 07 2010 16:37 Xxavi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 16:27 Acayex wrote:
On December 07 2010 16:16 Xxavi wrote:
This pisses me off, they wait and watch how other races have to adapt for so long, yet they give up after Zerg outcry. I mean, they are seriously not doing a good job with their adjustments.

Just because Idra pops up in every other thread and QQs about balance and says he is actually the best player around, and only loses to scrubs because the game is imbalanced does not mean it is true. People here should be more open to discussion. The game is weird right now, if other races allow Zerg to expand, they are done. The bunkers are good.

Terran should be able to cheese or at least it should be an option so that Zergs don't get to expand everywhere. Fungal growth affecting air units or not is a toss up for me, but seeing that Protoss cannot do that to terran mediavac, I don't see why Zerg should. But it's a toss up.



I'm sure they watched Zerg try to adapt to 5 rax reapers for a long time. Somethings they feel like needs changes. I highly doubt Blizzard even listens to Idra since he'll complain about anything if he's in a bad mood.

Terran do have the option to cheese, and effectively too. Look at this season's GSL. I won't mention any games but there's plenty of Terran cheeses that basically make Zerg hatch first builds suicidal on certain maps.

Well, there you go, there are certain maps, where you shouldn't go hatch first.

Really, I am all for macro games, but some people, especially Zerg players, idea of macro is that they are sitting comfortably on 4 expansions with +40 supply over his terran/toss opponent. How is that any balanced? It's freaking clear they will win.

I watched that Ret's game vs Protoss player. In that first game, the Toss player killed 2-3 large armies of Ret. Ret didn't seem to be controlling his units at all, just sending for massacre. Yet, he is comfortably sitting on 5 expansions, and taking gold, so he can keep pumping units. Was he the better player in the first game? Absolutely not for me, yet he got praised for macro.

Good Zergs make it look ridiculous if you don't pressure them early. Cheese or not cheese, if you let NesTea alive for more than 10 minutes, that's it, you can as well gg.



Like I said I'm not a top player by any stretch, but I recently embarked on the mission to teach my FPS-playing roommate how to play SC2. I've played SC1 since 2003 but always casually. But I did make sure to tell him on his first or second time sitting down to the game, you never, ever leave a Zerg player alone. You can't just let the Zerg sit in their base; in fact it should be on page 1 of the strategy guide for new players. (btw, roommate plays terran exclusively, i play zerg) I'm not sure this is a problem, meaning the fact that a Zerg left alone for 10 minutes on 5 expansions isn't a game balance problem, I think instead it's a problem of the opponent not doing what is needed to stop the Swarm: pressure. Force the Zerg to make units instead of drones.


@DonKey_ from Liechtenstein:
And my comment about Zerg tears winning again was a joke. I'm confident the change wasn't based purely on complaining. Surely you don't think it was all due to whining?
I cannot be what I am so I become money, quarter by quarter, and live as long as I can live. "Why I Play Video Games," by Tony Barnstone. check out my design website, ectonym.com
hitman133
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1425 Posts
December 07 2010 07:48 GMT
#128
On December 07 2010 15:53 Griffith` wrote:
So basically, terran gets another nerf (scv repair), zerg still op as hell late game, protoss better early game and easy access to air.

Bullshit, scv repair is game AI, a bug fix, not a nerf to it. How the hell can any other race could stop thors+SCVs repair rush when in early game they mostly have melee attack units.
DizzyDrone
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands629 Posts
December 07 2010 07:48 GMT
#129
On December 07 2010 16:42 Dingobloo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 16:37 DizzyDrone wrote:
just a little hint for you protoss players out there, you can spread phoenixes against fungal growth the same way you can spread mutalisks against thors.


So we agree that the radius of fungal should be reduced to 0.5!


I don't think so no, flying your phoenixes above a zerg's army should still be a risk, but with the buildtime reduction I think they will do quite well against mutalisks, even with infestors out.

My point is that I see the same thing now that I saw a few weeks ago when zerg players were complaining that their mutalisks were hardcountered by thors - now you see mutalisks in nearly every tvz.
NearPerfection
Profile Joined October 2010
232 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-07 07:49:19
December 07 2010 07:49 GMT
#130
I really hope my ridiculously high win percentage on the PTR didn't contribute to toss buff reversions. No really good Zerg took PTR seriously at all. But many top protoss jumped on the thought of no thor/scv all in, void rays with purpose, phoenix being able to counter muta etc.

But 3 days?? lol?
zak
Profile Joined April 2010
Korea (South)1009 Posts
December 07 2010 07:49 GMT
#131
On December 07 2010 16:33 kinetic_skink wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 16:22 zak wrote:
oh gawd they should have left the hotkey alone. cant they make it a little weeny bit harder for us?!


You can still press the keys repeatedly to build units if you want. You don't have to hold the key down.



oh haha so funny. yes sc2 is not sc1 ffs the technical difficulty of sc2 is so low.
You know how to gain a victory, but not use it - maharbal
Patriot.dlk
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Sweden5462 Posts
December 07 2010 07:51 GMT
#132
No idea why they implement something only to remove it 3 days later. However, the hotkey change was to stupid to keep and that probably goes for fungal as well.

The bunker time should actually be shorter imo and the maps bigger but as long as maps they the same I guess bunkers need to take some time
FrostedMiniWeet
Profile Joined July 2009
United States636 Posts
December 07 2010 07:52 GMT
#133
On December 07 2010 16:47 ectonym wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 16:37 Xxavi wrote:
On December 07 2010 16:27 Acayex wrote:
On December 07 2010 16:16 Xxavi wrote:
This pisses me off, they wait and watch how other races have to adapt for so long, yet they give up after Zerg outcry. I mean, they are seriously not doing a good job with their adjustments.

Just because Idra pops up in every other thread and QQs about balance and says he is actually the best player around, and only loses to scrubs because the game is imbalanced does not mean it is true. People here should be more open to discussion. The game is weird right now, if other races allow Zerg to expand, they are done. The bunkers are good.

Terran should be able to cheese or at least it should be an option so that Zergs don't get to expand everywhere. Fungal growth affecting air units or not is a toss up for me, but seeing that Protoss cannot do that to terran mediavac, I don't see why Zerg should. But it's a toss up.



I'm sure they watched Zerg try to adapt to 5 rax reapers for a long time. Somethings they feel like needs changes. I highly doubt Blizzard even listens to Idra since he'll complain about anything if he's in a bad mood.

Terran do have the option to cheese, and effectively too. Look at this season's GSL. I won't mention any games but there's plenty of Terran cheeses that basically make Zerg hatch first builds suicidal on certain maps.

Well, there you go, there are certain maps, where you shouldn't go hatch first.

Really, I am all for macro games, but some people, especially Zerg players, idea of macro is that they are sitting comfortably on 4 expansions with +40 supply over his terran/toss opponent. How is that any balanced? It's freaking clear they will win.

I watched that Ret's game vs Protoss player. In that first game, the Toss player killed 2-3 large armies of Ret. Ret didn't seem to be controlling his units at all, just sending for massacre. Yet, he is comfortably sitting on 5 expansions, and taking gold, so he can keep pumping units. Was he the better player in the first game? Absolutely not for me, yet he got praised for macro.

Good Zergs make it look ridiculous if you don't pressure them early. Cheese or not cheese, if you let NesTea alive for more than 10 minutes, that's it, you can as well gg.



Like I said I'm not a top player by any stretch, but I recently embarked on the mission to teach my FPS-playing roommate how to play SC2. I've played SC1 since 2003 but always casually. But I did make sure to tell him on his first or second time sitting down to the game, you never, ever leave a Zerg player alone. You can't just let the Zerg sit in their base; in fact it should be on page 1 of the strategy guide for new players. (btw, roommate plays terran exclusively, i play zerg) I'm not sure this is a problem, meaning the fact that a Zerg left alone for 10 minutes on 5 expansions isn't a game balance problem, I think instead it's a problem of the opponent not doing what is needed to stop the Swarm: pressure. Force the Zerg to make units instead of drones.


@DonKey_ from Liechtenstein:
And my comment about Zerg tears winning again was a joke. I'm confident the change wasn't based purely on complaining. Surely you don't think it was all due to whining?


This isn't always the best advice. As a Zerg player, one of the hardest things to beat is a good turtler who turtles to 200/200 then comes out with a death ball that I cannot defeat with my 200/200 army. Zerg has to have massively superior army to beat a protoss or terran in a turtle position. And fact of the matter is that I can't saturate more than 3 bases otherwise my drones start cutting into my supply, so at some point, letting me take the entire map doesn't do me much good if I cannot make any more drones anyway.
kmkkmk
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany418 Posts
December 07 2010 07:53 GMT
#134
On December 07 2010 15:21 -orb- wrote:
Huh.

I actually liked the not-being-able-to-hold-down-keys thing. Anything that makes the game harder and increases the skill ceiling imo


In contrast to you I think skill should be shown by great strategic thinking and not by being able to push more buttons.
Scorch
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Austria3371 Posts
December 07 2010 07:54 GMT
#135
Yes! My hold key macro "bug" is back! I can stay with the zerg race!
Nightmarjoo
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
United States3360 Posts
December 07 2010 07:55 GMT
#136
What no fungal change?
Bunker change was noted as temporary anyway.
Wow that no-hold-down change was annoying, while it did feel more bw-ish, it was absolutely annoying with many reactorax. Nice that that'll be changed back.
aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat
Xxavi
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1248 Posts
December 07 2010 07:55 GMT
#137
On December 07 2010 16:52 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 16:47 ectonym wrote:
On December 07 2010 16:37 Xxavi wrote:
On December 07 2010 16:27 Acayex wrote:
On December 07 2010 16:16 Xxavi wrote:
This pisses me off, they wait and watch how other races have to adapt for so long, yet they give up after Zerg outcry. I mean, they are seriously not doing a good job with their adjustments.

Just because Idra pops up in every other thread and QQs about balance and says he is actually the best player around, and only loses to scrubs because the game is imbalanced does not mean it is true. People here should be more open to discussion. The game is weird right now, if other races allow Zerg to expand, they are done. The bunkers are good.

Terran should be able to cheese or at least it should be an option so that Zergs don't get to expand everywhere. Fungal growth affecting air units or not is a toss up for me, but seeing that Protoss cannot do that to terran mediavac, I don't see why Zerg should. But it's a toss up.



I'm sure they watched Zerg try to adapt to 5 rax reapers for a long time. Somethings they feel like needs changes. I highly doubt Blizzard even listens to Idra since he'll complain about anything if he's in a bad mood.

Terran do have the option to cheese, and effectively too. Look at this season's GSL. I won't mention any games but there's plenty of Terran cheeses that basically make Zerg hatch first builds suicidal on certain maps.

Well, there you go, there are certain maps, where you shouldn't go hatch first.

Really, I am all for macro games, but some people, especially Zerg players, idea of macro is that they are sitting comfortably on 4 expansions with +40 supply over his terran/toss opponent. How is that any balanced? It's freaking clear they will win.

I watched that Ret's game vs Protoss player. In that first game, the Toss player killed 2-3 large armies of Ret. Ret didn't seem to be controlling his units at all, just sending for massacre. Yet, he is comfortably sitting on 5 expansions, and taking gold, so he can keep pumping units. Was he the better player in the first game? Absolutely not for me, yet he got praised for macro.

Good Zergs make it look ridiculous if you don't pressure them early. Cheese or not cheese, if you let NesTea alive for more than 10 minutes, that's it, you can as well gg.



Like I said I'm not a top player by any stretch, but I recently embarked on the mission to teach my FPS-playing roommate how to play SC2. I've played SC1 since 2003 but always casually. But I did make sure to tell him on his first or second time sitting down to the game, you never, ever leave a Zerg player alone. You can't just let the Zerg sit in their base; in fact it should be on page 1 of the strategy guide for new players. (btw, roommate plays terran exclusively, i play zerg) I'm not sure this is a problem, meaning the fact that a Zerg left alone for 10 minutes on 5 expansions isn't a game balance problem, I think instead it's a problem of the opponent not doing what is needed to stop the Swarm: pressure. Force the Zerg to make units instead of drones.


@DonKey_ from Liechtenstein:
And my comment about Zerg tears winning again was a joke. I'm confident the change wasn't based purely on complaining. Surely you don't think it was all due to whining?


This isn't always the best advice. As a Zerg player, one of the hardest things to beat is a good turtler who turtles to 200/200 then comes out with a death ball that I cannot defeat with my 200/200 army. Zerg has to have massively superior army to beat a protoss or terran in a turtle position. And fact of the matter is that I can't saturate more than 3 bases otherwise my drones start cutting into my supply, so at some point, letting me take the entire map doesn't do me much good if I cannot make any more drones anyway.

Can't you just use the mobility of your army? Go in with Mutas and harass the base and make them come back, don't let them expand. Keep upgrading until ultras.

If you directly engage, you will, of course, lose.
kmkkmk
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany418 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-07 07:57:41
December 07 2010 07:56 GMT
#138
On December 07 2010 16:52 FrostedMiniWeet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 16:47 ectonym wrote:
On December 07 2010 16:37 Xxavi wrote:
On December 07 2010 16:27 Acayex wrote:
On December 07 2010 16:16 Xxavi wrote:
This pisses me off, they wait and watch how other races have to adapt for so long, yet they give up after Zerg outcry. I mean, they are seriously not doing a good job with their adjustments.

Just because Idra pops up in every other thread and QQs about balance and says he is actually the best player around, and only loses to scrubs because the game is imbalanced does not mean it is true. People here should be more open to discussion. The game is weird right now, if other races allow Zerg to expand, they are done. The bunkers are good.

Terran should be able to cheese or at least it should be an option so that Zergs don't get to expand everywhere. Fungal growth affecting air units or not is a toss up for me, but seeing that Protoss cannot do that to terran mediavac, I don't see why Zerg should. But it's a toss up.



I'm sure they watched Zerg try to adapt to 5 rax reapers for a long time. Somethings they feel like needs changes. I highly doubt Blizzard even listens to Idra since he'll complain about anything if he's in a bad mood.

Terran do have the option to cheese, and effectively too. Look at this season's GSL. I won't mention any games but there's plenty of Terran cheeses that basically make Zerg hatch first builds suicidal on certain maps.


Well, there you go, there are certain maps, where you shouldn't go hatch first.

Really, I am all for macro games, but some people, especially Zerg players, idea of macro is that they are sitting comfortably on 4 expansions with +40 supply over his terran/toss opponent. How is that any balanced? It's freaking clear they will win.

I watched that Ret's game vs Protoss player. In that first game, the Toss player killed 2-3 large armies of Ret. Ret didn't seem to be controlling his units at all, just sending for massacre. Yet, he is comfortably sitting on 5 expansions, and taking gold, so he can keep pumping units. Was he the better player in the first game? Absolutely not for me, yet he got praised for macro.

Good Zergs make it look ridiculous if you don't pressure them early. Cheese or not cheese, if you let NesTea alive for more than 10 minutes, that's it, you can as well gg.



Like I said I'm not a top player by any stretch, but I recently embarked on the mission to teach my FPS-playing roommate how to play SC2. I've played SC1 since 2003 but always casually. But I did make sure to tell him on his first or second time sitting down to the game, you never, ever leave a Zerg player alone. You can't just let the Zerg sit in their base; in fact it should be on page 1 of the strategy guide for new players. (btw, roommate plays terran exclusively, i play zerg) I'm not sure this is a problem, meaning the fact that a Zerg left alone for 10 minutes on 5 expansions isn't a game balance problem, I think instead it's a problem of the opponent not doing what is needed to stop the Swarm: pressure. Force the Zerg to make units instead of drones.


@DonKey_ from Liechtenstein:
And my comment about Zerg tears winning again was a joke. I'm confident the change wasn't based purely on complaining. Surely you don't think it was all due to whining?


This isn't always the best advice. As a Zerg player, one of the hardest things to beat is a good turtler who turtles to 200/200 then comes out with a death ball that I cannot defeat with my 200/200 army. Zerg has to have massively superior army to beat a protoss or terran in a turtle position. And fact of the matter is that I can't saturate more than 3 bases otherwise my drones start cutting into my supply, so at some point, letting me take the entire map doesn't do me much good if I cannot make any more drones anyway.

Surely taking gas at those unsaturated bases and having them still does some good to you, no?

DarkRise
Profile Joined November 2010
1644 Posts
December 07 2010 07:58 GMT
#139
On December 07 2010 16:51 Patriot.dlk wrote:
No idea why they implement something only to remove it 3 days later. However, the hotkey change was to stupid to keep and that probably goes for fungal as well.

The bunker time should actually be shorter imo and the maps bigger but as long as maps they the same I guess bunkers need to take some time


You want bunker time shorter?
Watched the recent GSL by any chance? 2 rax is soo good now and if bunker would be done like 25 sec the i don't know what to say

Well atleast the test is getting its worth, Blizzard prob is reviewing replays from the PRT
Not sure if they contact some pros to play on it
Highways
Profile Joined July 2005
Australia6103 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-07 08:00:53
December 07 2010 07:59 GMT
#140
I liked the no repeat hotkey for Zerg.

Sad to see so many noobs complaining because they can't handle the mechanics. I don't even put my all my hatcheries on hotkey and hold down a button. I actually individually hotkey every hatch I have.

Sad to see TL trying to dumb down the mechanics. So pissed off right now. I don't care other races are easier to macro, Zerg is a race that requires high APM so deal with it.
#1 Terran hater
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