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On December 05 2010 00:31 butchji wrote:
In BroodWar the Observatory was required (added additional time till you can get observers) And now they for some reason lowered the costs of observers eventhough you can get them extremely quickly? A terran scan is limited by the time the scan runs, only spots a certain area and costs potential 400 minerals you get from mules.
Maybe someone can enlighten me why this was necessary?
I think it's to make the Protoss go more observers. Everyone is saying observer is best scouting unit etc etc which may be true but it's also very vulnerable. Once an observer is destroyed most P don't make additional observers anymore thus there isn't any scouting ability except of hallucinations (which means researching it and also making sentries whilst waiting for the energy requirement). Just my thought.
On December 05 2010 00:29 Mascherano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 00:19 Piy wrote:
The issue isn't the damage dealt, its that P and T can flick around the map with their air and even if you do have the creep spread to deal with it, not having fungal growth means that there is nothing worrying them. So you have to play very defensive with your hydras as a result. Or go Muta, not that Muta works vs Phoenix without fungal growth.
Hopefully they won't put through the silly change, the rest of the patch is good. Describes how every T and P feels when Zerg go mutas and they get more than 6.On to the FG nerf. Before this nerf that hasn't even happened, all zerg say is "Just don't clump up your phoenixes, learn to separate them so that FG isn't as effective. Well now you guys can learn not to clump up your mutas, and divide them into groups so you can flank/sandwich our phoenixes.
Yea when I read that comment I had the exact thought as you just described. You're describing the exact feeling of a T/P who faces a Zerg going mass muta lol who bashes a P saying micro better or l2play etc. As a P/T player this buff and nerf to FG basically reversed the roles of air of the races at first thought but we don't know what it will really result in. For all we know it might just be add few corruptors instead of muta's and protoss can't do much. I'm still speculating but it's the same as every other Z/T/P saying OMG WE CAN'T DO X WHILE HE CAN DO Y. WE DON'T DESERVER THIS NERF etc.
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On December 05 2010 00:33 ltortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 00:31 Armsved wrote:On December 05 2010 00:29 ltortoise wrote:On December 05 2010 00:28 Armsved wrote:
As a T player, I honestly dont feel this is going to matter at all in any of my MUs. I dont understand why any terrans would engage in this discussion. It might make some difference in ZvP, but nothing big. The real matter is ZvZ, and any non Z player should just stay the hell away from that dicussion. You don't think Ravens will now become an effective unit to mass in the lategame against Zerg? Every time I tried it before I'd suffer huge losses to fungal. Now it looks doable. I dont know how you will get to lategame with the production to mass that. Its like massing BCs before they got nerfed. Its expensive, you wont get to the lategame with the production to support it and there will be big gaps of timing for the zerg to exploit it. I'm confused. I'm talking about massing them IN the late game. Not massing them before the late game in preparation for it. If you're on four bases, adding two starports for Ravens isn't going to create some huge timing for the Zerg to come kill you...
I cant tell you wether it would work or not since im not since I obviously havent tested it, but I dont see it being a total gamebreaker. And corrupter will counter it anyway. Also no matter how you look at it 2 starports pumping out ravens+the energy and HSM upgrade is a pretty big investment.
As I said I dont think it will be a total gamebreaker in anyway, maybe it will help terran out in the lategame which is needed in TvZ. (yeah I know we rely on bio ball and tanksthe entire game, and we are noobs for not transitioning into something we dont have)
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On December 05 2010 00:31 butchji wrote:
In BroodWar the Observatory was required (added additional time till you can get observers) And now they for some reason lowered the costs of observers eventhough you can get them extremely quickly? A terran scan is limited by the time the scan runs, only spots a certain area and costs potential 400 minerals you get from mules.
Maybe someone can enlighten me why this was necessary?
Banshees and the Terran sniping costy observers.
But I think that they could move burrow back to tier one.
I still can't stress enough how much the fungal growth nerf will hurt the game. Z mirrors and ZvPs will be broken. There is absolutely no way to kill phoenixes without fungal growth. It was the reason, why Protoss players had to stop massing them in the mid game.
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On December 05 2010 00:39 Armsved wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2010 00:33 ltortoise wrote:On December 05 2010 00:31 Armsved wrote:On December 05 2010 00:29 ltortoise wrote:On December 05 2010 00:28 Armsved wrote:
As a T player, I honestly dont feel this is going to matter at all in any of my MUs. I dont understand why any terrans would engage in this discussion. It might make some difference in ZvP, but nothing big. The real matter is ZvZ, and any non Z player should just stay the hell away from that dicussion. You don't think Ravens will now become an effective unit to mass in the lategame against Zerg? Every time I tried it before I'd suffer huge losses to fungal. Now it looks doable. I dont know how you will get to lategame with the production to mass that. Its like massing BCs before they got nerfed. Its expensive, you wont get to the lategame with the production to support it and there will be big gaps of timing for the zerg to exploit it. I'm confused. I'm talking about massing them IN the late game. Not massing them before the late game in preparation for it. If you're on four bases, adding two starports for Ravens isn't going to create some huge timing for the Zerg to come kill you... I cant tell you wether it would work or not since im not since I obviously havent tested it, but I dont see it being a total gamebreaker. And corrupter will counter it anyway. Also no matter how you look at it 2 starports pumping out ravens+the energy and HSM upgrade is a pretty big investment. As I said I dont think it will be a total gamebreaker in anyway, maybe it will help terran out in the lategame which is needed in TvZ. (yeah I know we rely on bio ball and tanksthe entire game, and we are noobs for not transitioning into something we dont have)
Lol wtf?
I never once said it would be a gamebreaker or anything of the sort. I simply said that now it seems more possible than it was before.
Nothing more.
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Please stop the stupidity. Just remember if you make a stupid post we're going to ban you.
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On December 04 2010 10:56 SWPIGWANG wrote:
no fungal on air units? Spire is now mandatory against like everything....
Phoenix op is the new robo? I guess hallu upgrade speed means twilight is more workable too.....
i think infestors definately discourage clever drop play, nerfing fungal growth will remove one of the skill ceiling caps.
we want to see hydralisks. zerg is broken until we start seeing hydralisk in every game. if you encourage air play from the opposition then hydra are great.
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More than the fungal, something is questioning me more is the holding down hotkeys "issue".
Is it just me or pressing 18 times R feels dumb ?
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Infestors mainly discouraged unclever one-air-unit masses. Mass one-air-unit armies are the stupidest things in the game. That needs to be prohibited.
On December 05 2010 00:47 Super_bricklayer wrote:
More than the fungal, something is questioning me more is the holding down hotkeys "issue".
Is it just me or pressing 18 times R feels dumb ?
It's not just you. The majority would probably agree with you.
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I'm really happy for the changes overall, they seem to make everything better. Not sure about the fungal change but I put my trust into Blizzard. I love the reduced build time of phoenixes especially. Also the part where zergs can't make 5-6 times the amount of units of a P with half the time and apm is a great change which might make zergs making huge armies during battle in the lategame a bit more difficult. It's fun seeing your apm in the lategame as a zerg going up to 800 because of holding down a key lol.
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Stalemate detection? awwwww. would probably hurt spectator-bility as some strats only work out in late late game. Imagine Idra vs Jinro in an epic TvZ where the map is mined out and the game ends up being drawed before the cool stuff happens
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On December 05 2010 00:21 Euriti wrote:
All this thread has shown is how the community seems to have taken a nosedive the last 2 months. The amount of posts saying 'X deserves nerf cus they whine' or 'lol X whines l2p noobs' is just staggering. Before you post, try to be just a little bit objective. Resorting to namecalling and generalization is just gonna degrade the discussion in to something akin battle.net forums.
Yeah, I really feel like these threads bring out the worst in people. Despite me being a Zerg player the large qq threads back before the first patches while partly constructive were mostly depressing and detrimental for my own gameplay, the Terran qq thread some weeks ago reached the point where people were saying things like "Banshees are useless" (srsly wtf) and the two large Protoss qq threads gave you the impression that the race is unplayable and people were rushing it with their crappy balancing ideas. Everyone just encourage themselves in their own opinion and states it at fact while simultaneously calling other people Bronze noobs. It's terrible.
I like some of the changes, some I do not agree with, but these are just patch notes for a test server, people need to calm the fuck down. What I do think is that Blizzard's balancing policy right now is somewhat shortsighted. I really think they should leave the game alone for some time. We're seeing a pretty balanced Ro8 in the GSL right now and top players really found new ways to play out their matchups (especially TvZ (the macro version not the SCV all-in version), ZvZ and PvT are evolving amazingly in my eyes) and it's not good if Blizzard listens to all the whiners and messes stuff up every two months.
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I really like the changes made to unit sound cues etc. I am glad that they take the time to improve this even though everyone is already sold on the game and arent asking for improvements to be made on forums. It really shows alot of care and pride in making the game as functionally solid as possible.
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Though FG nerf almost certainly must mean a hydra buff...and a big one at that...maybe back to 90 hp or 5 bonus damage vs light air.Thoughts?
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I wanna suggest something interesting.
Have any of you thought of the fact that the game needs to change at certain points in it's life time?
Albeit not now, perhaps, but I mean, if the games becomes so balanced that you can do every build in your sleep, won't that sorta kill the innovation of new builds in a way?
If you keep changing little things around every now and then, the game will change, and people will discover new builds that can deal some dmg.
I dunno, maybe I'm wrong. I would just be sad to see this game become stale, because no-matter what, there ARE limited builds you can do, to be sucessful. Once you change one little factor, everything else becomes possible in theory and can be tested.
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On December 05 2010 00:53 Mellotron wrote:
I really like the changes made to unit sound cues etc. I am glad that they take the time to improve this even though everyone is already sold on the game and arent asking for improvements to be made on forums. It really shows alot of care and pride in making the game as functionally solid as possible.
Can you elaborate on that? What did they change and how ?
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On December 05 2010 00:31 butchji wrote:
In BroodWar the Observatory was required (added additional time till you can get observers) And now they for some reason lowered the costs of observers eventhough you can get them extremely quickly? A terran scan is limited by the time the scan runs, only spots a certain area and costs potential 240 minerals you get from mules.
Maybe someone can enlighten me why this was necessary?
It's necessary because of the POSSIBILITY of a cloacked banshee. Protoss players don't like the fact that they have to go robo --> observer first. I mean, imagine terran having to go raven or turret because of possible DT... oh wait...
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That is the most fulled of QQ thread I've seen in a long time..
It's entertaining and sad at the same time. I'm litteraly eating nachos while reading you guys ! xD plz QQ even more before trying to play.
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Zerg already have a serious unit variety deficiency. Without anti-air fungal growth, it seems they will have no choice but to go hydra or corruptor mid-game. Terrible.
Cheaper observer, much faster pheonix, easier hyrda counter. Corruptors are already the worst zerg unit (worst unit period?).
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On December 05 2010 00:32 Amber[LighT] wrote:I'm wondering this too. I'm assuming it will take more work to wall in for Terrans at the bottom of ramps with the change now as well, if the bunker question results in a 'no.' Either way it benefits early game ZvT 
I tested it. 2 bunkers can still wall in just as easily.
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Did they change the awful zerg sounds?I want my Overmind back!
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EPT
