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On December 02 2010 12:38 Dubz wrote:
if your going to warn/temp ban literally half the people who post in this topic you should probably just close the thread, as if the OP is gonna get any real concrete answer as to who "invented" apm?
User was temp banned for this post.
I think that has to be the worst post I've ever seen on these forums.
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JCA was the first person that came to my mind.
Thankfully the whole APM craze has died down a little since those early days , occasional gimmick products excepted.People were just spamming useless clicks to get their APM up thinking that made them more like the korean pros.Whatever.
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Congrats for inventing perhaps the most pervasively misguiding element of skill in Starcraft bar cutesy strategies, I guess... I just wish there was some way to measure USEFUL APM, so mid-level players would stop spamming and learn to play.
It is cool to see how important TL.net is, though. Whatever starts here ends up in the entire American Starcraft community at the very least, the most recent example being the 7 Roach Rush (posted on TL.net, created by a program posted on TL.net, if my sources are correct) which has been a little FotM rush for a while now.
+ Show Spoiler +
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United States3862 Posts
I used to follow BW pretty much religiously but since I didn't play it that much I never really read Team Liquid, I had no idea that it was Drone and Nazgul who first came up with APM. 
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Amazing thread so far. I <3 bwchart and still use it every time I play broodwar. Amongst TL members we manage to have a pretty awesome group here -- all the streamers, quality posters, translators, moderators, the players, the fans, and even the noobs who don't have any idea how to read a thread, you guys make this a place worth returning to day in and day out.
Cheers TL!  
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On December 02 2010 11:38 Slow Motion wrote:
It's like a reading comprehension question.
The OP's description on the Razer mouse is:
A) The main topic of the thread.
B) A humorous anecdote.
C) An allusion to T.S. Elliot's The Waste Land.
D) An introduction to his main point.
Just pointing out that the easiest/first question in "who wants to be a millionaire" is never D.
Wow, I would never have imagined that TL or somebody on TL would be the inventor of apm charts. That is pretty mind blowing. I wonder how many people actually knew this.
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I think TL.net has been and still is a great learning resource for Starcraft and thus, for every RTS ever made. Personally, I wasn't "among the first" in here, but I've been looking around for over 5 years and it has been an honor. BWChart really made me learn a lot of fast mentality and pushed me to go to my limits more - I wanted to play faster than my friends, even if it just meant numbers at that time. But when game knowledge and decision making eventually meet the available APM, that's when you see some serious gaming.
Good going mates 
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Aah, my posting has been so bad lately but the first few pages of this thread make me feel slightly better. =P
I absolutely loved BWChart, I remember when I first had only 40 apm and then checked my APM after every game until I finally hit my record of about 250 apm. I wasn't around back then, but I'm sure that the realization of APM had an effect on quite a few people. I really appreciate what you've done for the community, BWChart was something I used daily back when I played SCBW. I guess it must feel great to have Blizzard include an APM feature in their replays(despite it being wrong) since you've pretty much developed them.
I really wish I could find out my EAPM in SC2 as well, though... I don't think there's a reliable way yet. By the way, I believe that the original concept of EAPM was developed by some russian program called Repinfo, but I really am not sure and apologize if I'm incorrect.
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I'm not sure you can give TL credit for Blizzard implementing APM into SC2.. that seems a little far fetched. APM has become such a common term used in SC that it would've been stupid of them to not add an APM function into the game, but it is definitely fair to say that TL has had a huge impact on the game itself, seeing as it's the largest NA community.
People do seem to take way too much consideration into APM. I know several 2600+ diamonds with APM between 80-110, and it seems a lot of people with high APM only spam. It's not as essential in SC2 as it was in SC1. Also, I know that previous posters have been warned for saying this, but seriously, that razer gear is fucking retarded. Not only is it pricey, but it'd be extremely annoying to have your headset and mouse constantly lighting up if you have "fast" apm..
But yeah, Liquid fighting!!
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
I'm actually very shocked that so many people here can't even comprehend such a short OP.
Anyways i didn't know what the history of APM was and how it was birthed so thanks for the insight! I hope TL and all the other communities continue to have an important role in the development of esports all across the globe.
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lol i love how the red trails off eventually by this page of the thread, or last. lets check ten, but i am pretty sure everyone caught on. haha. still funny nonetheless. well page ten has a quoted temp ban, so yeah. gnite all!
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On December 02 2010 14:32 CuteSmallHydra wrote:
And this was looooong before YouTube - in truth, RWA was pretty much the start of English casting (c'mon, nobody took Korn's WCG casts seriously), and the first time many of us heard Manifesto's manly voice.
omg wow i completely forgot that mani was my fav fav caster
holy crap it's been years, i'm old 
also lol @ korn haha
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Funny thread.
Some important lessons to be learned here:
1- Lurk more
2- The Terminology "APM" originated from TL.net
3- JCA is a legend. OP is in fact JCA
4- Tl.net has a lot of strongly opinionated people who are often times wrong. Case in point: This thread and most of the Sc2 strategy section.
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I am new to TL comunity and newer thought that TL and a individual member(JCA) had so huge impact on the BW scene.
Every new player know what apm is and nobody is thinking that it was something needed to be invented...
Nice topik and interesting reading in the links.
Its good to know how it all started.
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Wow I seriously thought APM was just naturally perceived, but to come to this thread and find out that JCA helped create it is amazing.
SC2 is kind of depressing for me. I don't feel the APM rush I get when I played Terran for Brood War. The adrenaline rush of mashing hotkeys, pumping marines constantly from barracks with (NO reactors), microing your marines from defilers/lurkers etc.
Hell I even thought about APM away from Brood War. I would use "APM" to multitask in my daily routines. Like as I'm waiting for my computer to load... I'm folding clothes or something else. Yeah I know I'm taking it too far, but APM was my life back in the day. Thanks JCA and all the others that helped create such a wonderful acronym.
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It is pretty cool finding out that what seems (to someone just joining the scene with SC2) to be just another ubiquitous measure was actually invented specifically, here... nice!
Now, imagine.... five years from now, when SC2 is as old as BW was when this stuff came out.... howzabout this... what if someone comes up with a "combat simulation" model than can read the local terrain and unit composition from each battle in a replay file, apply the same movement/meta-priority/targeting that the game would have applied if everyone was "1-A"'ing, and then measure players based on how much more combat effectiveness they got out of their units by micro'ing them. Sort of 'effective' APM in the truest sense of the word...
What would be interesting about this hypothetical measure is it would be a zero-sum between the two players, as with both micro'ing they're actively reducing the effectiveness of the other.
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On December 02 2010 13:03 Ftrunkz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 12:38 Dubz wrote:
if your going to warn/temp ban literally half the people who post in this topic you should probably just close the thread, as if the OP is gonna get any real concrete answer as to who "invented" apm?
User was temp banned for this post. Oh my god this has to be the best post of the whole thread so far!
On December 02 2010 18:18 Demand2k wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 12:38 Dubz wrote:
if your going to warn/temp ban literally half the people who post in this topic you should probably just close the thread, as if the OP is gonna get any real concrete answer as to who "invented" apm?
User was temp banned for this post. I think that has to be the worst post I've ever seen on these forums.
So, which is it? XD
APM is surely impressive, but if you use bwrepinfo you can see EAPM, which is basically APM with most of the spam and repetitive commands removed. It's ridiculous when you realize how fast professional players are, but then it's even more ridiculous when their EAPM shows how many of their actions are actions of CONSEQUENCE.
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On December 02 2010 12:43 Serejai wrote:
Bookmarking this thread because I'm 99.9% positive that if I come back here in a year the entire first two pages will be nuke icons.
Amazing how much influence something seemingly small can have in the gaming community, huh? Cheers to TL and JCA for paving the way!
DONE
i am also sending this to my non-starcraft-playing friends, the way you send a cool video on youtube or something. EPIC POST !
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On December 02 2010 19:08 Monkies wrote:
I'm not sure you can give TL credit for Blizzard implementing APM into SC2.. that seems a little far fetched. APM has become such a common term used in SC that it would've been stupid of them to not add an APM function into the game, but it is definitely fair to say that TL has had a huge impact on the game itself, seeing as it's the largest NA community.
People do seem to take way too much consideration into APM. I know several 2600+ diamonds with APM between 80-110, and it seems a lot of people with high APM only spam. It's not as essential in SC2 as it was in SC1. Also, I know that previous posters have been warned for saying this, but seriously, that razer gear is fucking retarded. Not only is it pricey, but it'd be extremely annoying to have your headset and mouse constantly lighting up if you have "fast" apm..
But yeah, Liquid fighting!!
Way to miss the point of the red warnings and the mod edit, which is TL (and more specifically JCA) invented APM itself. I love how this thread catches all these posters who don't read at all. No a forum is not a place for you to shit out your opinion.
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EPT
