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United States12235 Posts
On December 03 2010 00:50 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 11:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
So... this is going straight into the thread hall of fame, right? I've never seen such an epic honeytrap.
On topic: who invented superview? What exactly was the program used for, besides measuring something that hadn't been exactly invented yet? superview was originally created by some guy from the nohunters community named WilliamWC3. he used to write battlereports and was a cool figure. now, superview originally didn't leave that community and got pretty much no attention at first, it was just a program that let you examine replays from a "programmer" point of view. I think the correct term used was "decompressing" a replay or whatever. using it was very tedious and well, I just downloaded it again to see if I could make sense of it now, but I couldn't. here's a screenshot of how it worked: http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/LiquidDrone/superview.jpg (that's only one point of view, you can look at it in binary or examine the raw data and look at it uncompressed etc.. doesn't really make sense to me because I'm not very computer savvy. ) superview was created in like 2002 or something, so well more than a year before it was released on tl.net, and originally it wasn't really used for anything useful. but then dudey (ilnp on these forums) decided to cheat by letting some korean guy play for him in a huge tournament, dudey was very slow and that korean was very fast, and superview was used to compare dudey's speed and clicking-patterns in that tournament with dudey's speed in regular games. I probably spent like 30 minutes comparing 4-5 replays like this, because I had to manually count actions. superview didn't have any "apm"-conversion and it wasn't built for that purpose, but it was one of the possible ways it could be used. and then it turned out that dudey had about twice or three times his regular amount of clicks in that tournament compared to other replays of him. after that I guess jca read about how superview was used/got hold of it and decided to turn it into something that was actually possible to use. :p
Oh hey good memory Eri, remember also how SuperView allowed you to extract the map from a replay file in case you didn't have it?
And lookathis guy HurtnTime over here! All those old schoolers are flooding back into this thread =)
EDIT: And of course I remember meeting you at WCG =p
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Oh I remember that Eri. Of course also Eri used to play under his GFs account and beat up on people in tourneys. 
Single starport carrier rush. haha.
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Hey Excal, I just started playing Sc2 recently so I've been trolling tl.net for a few weeks, just not posting. Reading, learning, watching streams. Long time I didnt play RTS.
We met at WCG 2004 in SF. Remember?
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Wow another reason to love this site more than facebook.
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On December 02 2010 23:35 jarek.exe wrote:
To be honest Im really disappointed by the approach of admins.
If Razor issue is completely meaningless, then why is it mentioned at the very beginning of the thread?
I've read and understood the whole topic. However, im not really interested in who invented APM. Does that mean I cannot make a comment about the hardware?
Silly.
Besides, amount of warnings/bans caused a lot of off-topic posts, which spoiled the discussion.
In my humble opinion it's the thread creater who is responsible for all the mess. He could have composed that much better.
What in the fuck seriously? You obviously DID NOT understand the topic and its purpose. JCA created one of the most useful (and used) BW program ever that changed the game, do you realize it?!
I went through first two pages and nerd raged. How can be the SC2 newcomers THAT stupid? It blows my mind that someone reads just first sentence and completely ignores the rest of the post. Oh, TL 
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Norway28584 Posts
On December 03 2010 01:08 HurtnTime wrote:
Hey Excal, I just started playing Sc2 recently so I've been trolling tl.net for a few weeks, just not posting. Reading, learning, watching streams. Long time I didnt play RTS.
We met at WCG 2004 in SF. Remember?
I remember you! you bought me and some other fellows chinese food! :D
2004 was a blast
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Props to JCA for not filing a lawsuit against Blizzard/Razer for any IP rights concerning APM.
Props to JCA for this whole revolutionary concept :D
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Shouldn't this be a blog? I dont get the OP. Its just a statement who invented APM. What is there to discuss? Would be less warnings if it was a blog imo
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On December 03 2010 01:01 Ksyper wrote:
It's cool and all, but I don't see my mouse or my keyboard while I play.
Maybe if you're in a dark room the light might even distract you from the game.
But if I had enough money I would buy the mouse it looks awesome, and I'm sure it handles pretty good.
Of course, right after my post we get this. :/
Why?
JCA much <3 for your contributions.
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Wow that is huge, it pretty much changed how some parts of pc based esports are viewed and ultimately the products to come out and measure it.
Yay TL.
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Wow reading the first 5 pages of this thread has basically summarized how I feel about the degradation of the SC2 community on TL. A complete lack of comprehension and respect to the people who have done great things for the game, and a general "know it all attitude" that is currently ruining the forum. I applaud the moderators actions, and I really wish that things were even more strict around here. It's a shame that it has to be this way, but I guess this is what happens with the overwhelming influx of new users.
Thanks JCA for filling me in on an awesome fact!
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APM was around in 2001-2002. It was definitely even around in 1999/2000, although perhaps not by that name. It's a natural metric for how fast a player is playing and the concept even existed in the Age of Empires community. It wasn't given an explicit name until the SC / SC:BW programs that called it that. People also didn't think of using replays or real time programs to check it. It was definitely a more abstract concept. On December 03 2010 01:34 mcneebs wrote:
Wow reading the first 5 pages of this thread has basically summarized how I feel about the degradation of the SC2 community on TL. A complete lack of comprehension and respect to the people who have done great things for the game, and a general "know it all attitude" that is currently ruining the forum. I applaud the moderators actions, and I really wish that things were even more strict around here. It's a shame that it has to be this way, but I guess this is what happens with the overwhelming influx of new users.
Thanks JCA for filling me in on an awesome fact!
The title of this thread was different before and it was completely focused on the keyboard. There was no way at all to know it was about "the invention of APM" except for two trailing sentences at the end. The title was literally about the keyboard, and most of the original post was about it as well with a minor fill-in of where APM came from at the end.
It was later edited to not appear this way because a moderator didn't interpret it as the rest of the community did. After the title change and warnings/bans people started posting about the new topic. I assume JCA meant to make it about the new topic instead of the keyboard, but he didn't originally make it that way.
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Yeah it was great meeting you Eri and so many others. Were you there when day9 put a hot pepper in his mouth and he shriveled up? Hillarious.
I have a picture somewhere of that.
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New here, can't chime in on the whole nostalgia thing... Kind of makes me jealous But good on you TL! Having a drink in your name right now
You guys are a truly amazing community, hopefully one day I can look back on these days, and how much of a noob I am, and smile/laugh... I used BWchart to try to get better at BW back when I would play with my brother, and he would smoke me Every Single Game... And then there was that program that would overlay on the screen your current APM? I have no idea what program was but I used to swear by it haha. Took my laptop to school and played some bw against bots and had that rocking up near 100 (lol) and people thought I was gosu (not that I knew that term existed, but looking back it fits)...
I never knew it was all thanks to you guys and this amazing community
Thank you all so much, and I hope, one day, I can be a part of it!
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this thread is amazing
i love seeing threads from 2003, its like a museum o.o
never seen you post before jca, nice to meet you 
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Look at these two sexy beasts in 2004.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/cMmTg.jpg)
Oh man that is a spicey meatball!
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/cORh9.jpg)
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Norway28584 Posts
and victors expression has not changed since
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It's funny because it's true too.
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Wow I remember being an absolute noob in bw and hearing about bwchart and downloading it to check my awesome 60APM. Little did I know that later on I would become more involved in the starcraft community once starcraft 2 came out and find that it was actually someone on TL that "invented" APM and bw chart. I kind of just always assumed that APM was something that was kind of always looked at. I thought that maybe it was measured in other RTS games before starcraft.
In other news, this thread has also provided me many laughs. I think it's especially funny when people say, "Oh I don't want to be banned like everyone else....... so about those Razer products...."
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United States7481 Posts
hahahha that's the best picture of Sean i've ever seen!
it really is cool how a community term can spread to be so ubiquitous. you are a true baller, jca.
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EPT
