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jca2
France52 Posts
Hi guys,
Just saw that ad inside SC 2 for the new Razer gears for Starcraft 2. Keyboard and mouse now have "APM Lighting". Basically, the lights on the keyboard or the mouse will change color depending on your live APM:
APM Lighting
I read that ad with a bit of "nostalgie" going back 7 years in the past, right here, on TeamLiquid.net where APM was invented:
Who invented APM?
Maybe some of you did not know about TL back then, but yes, this is the kind of impact that the TL community has on the world of eSports. It got Blizzard to add APM inside SC 2 and Razer inside its devices. Not bad.
A round for TL 
Mod Edit: + Show Spoiler [READ] +I've decided to take mercy upon some of you and to be more up front about teaching this lesson. Before you post, read the entire OP, understand it, and if you have free time even read the next few pages to understand what's going on. Do not immediately regurgitate the first thing that comes to mind. This thread is about jca/bwcharts/TL member contributions, etc. It is not about Razer products. If you fail to read this warning, then you're totally fucked.
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I doubt Blizzard had much to do with razer's product. Blizzard maybe just gave a bit of info (if any), and gave permission for razer to make SC themed products.
There's bee post about this APM lighting before, so I'm not sure if this new topic is justified.
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This totally reminds me of those old shoes that light up when you take a step :D I really don't think many players ever look at their mouse while focusing on a starcraft game either. But yah, props to TL on the influence!
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lol, i like the little evolution on that one page. actions/minute, actions per minute, apm's to....APM!
Kind of cool little history fact if it's indeed where APM was born.
EDIT: Reading other posts, JCA, a TL member, was the inventor. Thank you, sir, I raise my glass with the others You made me self-conscious about how fast I spam stuff  .
Man, this place is a minefield.....
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This ranks among the dumbest "gaming gear" I've ever seen.
OH MAN! My mouse is RED! BASE UNDER ATTACK!!!!!
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If my apm drops low, my mouse/keyboard/headset will tell me ... this is meaningless
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Their priorities are horrible. How about producing an affordable gaming keyboard with good switches (mx reds ideal, mx browns if not) with NKRO and the option of no numpad? Sorry too busy jamming lights, usb hubs, headphone ports, giant wristrests that nobody wants, useless macro keys that make an even bigger footprint on the desk, and now apm based lighting on to a rubber dome or some mx blues with 2kro and then spending extra development time and money on "gaming optimized" 2kro.
Razer is as bad as steel series. They both put out gimmicky crap and tag "gamer" on it. There's no point at all to lighting on a keyboard/mouse, and there's especially no point to apm based lighting. At least we get the QCK out of steel.
It's sad that for real gaming equipment you are best off avoiding anything with "gaming" in the name like the plague.
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i have a feeling that would distract me and not help me play any better. The most common scenario I keep imagining in my head is im playing just fine but I notice my lighting/colors whatever is low! I panic and proceed to play worse than if I just stuck to what I was doing just fine lol.
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Its been said before but wow is this stupid. How often do you actually take your eyes of the game and look at your mouse/keyboard? lol. I hope no one actually buys this stuff, unless you really like the mouse, which I could understand. But you wouldn't actually use the APM lighting.
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The funny thing is that this probably costs them very, very little to make, and even develop. I could have probably designed one of these in my own house for under $50.
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Oh noes! It's AMP TECHNOLOGY all over againz !!1
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On December 02 2010 08:06 Archaic wrote:
The funny thing is that this probably costs them very, very little to make, and even develop. I could have probably designed one of these in my own house for under $50. NKRO is cheap too and you don't see them making keyboards with it. $2 worth of diodes to do it.
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Such a lol concept. "Holy shit guyz my keyboard is liek goin all red n stuffz mai Apm is liek hooooooge omgomgomg"
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What's the selling point of having gaming gear that changes colour when your APM changes... I just honestly can't see what they were thinking when they came up with the concept.
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JCA's BWChart coding APM's really high!
Cheers.
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On December 02 2010 08:32 Gezz wrote:I just honestly can't see what they were thinking when they came up with the concept.
They were thinking money, and that's what they'll get. Believe it or not these things do sell, many people don't care about optimal performance, they just want something "cool".
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They were using the Banshee (the headset) at the All-Stars Invitational. If anything, the lighting is there to look cool rather than be useful, and I agree, the lighting looks pretty cool.
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I wouldn't mind the feature if it were on a decent mouse and I didn't have to pay a ridiculous amount for it, but it's pure bling, no usefulness whatsoever. The game alert integration seems somewhat useful, but would be more useful if it were on a keyboard, since I'm never looking toward my mouse hand.
Funniest thing to me about that ad is how most players' APM is highest when they're building their economy, even though that's a "low APM situation".
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Anyone else read this topic as "APM Lightning"?
I had to use this garbage at Blizzcon, and there is no way I'd use it, even if someone payed me. It's THAT bad.
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I invented APM
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On December 02 2010 07:58 JustPlay wrote:
Their priorities are horrible. How about producing an affordable gaming keyboard with good switches (mx reds ideal, mx browns if not) with NKRO and the option of no numpad? Sorry too busy jamming lights, usb hubs, headphone ports, giant wristrests that nobody wants, useless macro keys that make an even bigger footprint on the desk, and now apm based lighting on to a rubber dome or some mx blues with 2kro and then spending extra development time and money on "gaming optimized" 2kro.
Sounds like you know everything you need to in order to just go buy a Filco Tenkeyless... why not just do that and laugh at the gaymers?
I really like my Happy Hacking Pro 2, but the lack of F1-F4 is really really getting to me. Control is so right though that it is all worth it.
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On December 02 2010 08:15 Danze wrote:
Such a lol concept. "Holy shit guyz my keyboard is liek goin all red n stuffz mai Apm is liek hooooooge omgomgomg"
Asshole. You made me spit up SunnyD all over myself.
Also, I only see the lighting helpful in my kind of gaming scenario because I play with my lights off.... otherwise I wouldn't even see the red lights and shit because I'm too focused on the screen. :|
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next your computer will explode if you go below 55 apm
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Just rewire the red LED into a model rocket igniter and then stick the igniter into a bottle rocket. Place the bottle rocket on your lap and then start laddering your heart out...
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On December 02 2010 09:46 Dental Floss wrote:
Just rewire the red LED into a model rocket igniter and then stick the igniter into a bottle rocket. Place the bottle rocket on your lap and then start laddering your heart out...
Best idea ever.
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United States22883 Posts
On December 02 2010 07:35 Xapti wrote:
I doubt Blizzard had much to do with razer's product. Blizzard maybe just gave a bit of info (if any), and gave permission for razer to make SC themed products.
There's bee post about this APM lighting before, so I'm not sure if this new topic is justified.
Reading is fundamental. >.>
Cool find. 
EDIT: New rules to the game. If you don't understand what not to do after reading the first 5 posts (or you didn't read them), I'm upping the ante.
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thanks for the warning it actually made this thread much more interesting. Damn my constant browsing at work >_<
I actually ended up reading the threads linked in the OP and had a fun APM history lesson. Boxer replays being analyzed for the first time with 131 APM must have been awesome at the time. It's funny how far players have come. Also funny how a quick warning from an Admin can lead to such sweet reads.
cheers!
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Whats up with all these warnings? Do you get warned around here when you make fun of a Razer product?
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I hope I get warned for this post.
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On December 02 2010 07:31 jca2 wrote:Hi guys, Just saw that ad inside SC 2 for the new Razer gears for Starcraft 2. Keyboard and mouse now have "APM Lighting". Basically, the lights on the keyboard or the mouse will change color depending on your live APM: APM LightingI read that ad with a bit of "nostalgie" going back 7 years in the past, right here, on TeamLiquid.net where APM was invented: Who invented APM?Maybe some of you did not know about TL back then, but yes, this is the kind of impact that the TL community has on the world of eSports. It got Blizzard to add APM inside SC 2 and Razer inside its devices. Not bad. A round for TL
Thank you for your contributions to the entire Starcraft community, JCA! BWchart helped me improve my gameplay in Brood War a lot by allowing me to see what parts of the game I wasn't focusing/playing well in. The fact that the concept of APM has been embraced by the Korean scene, Blizzard, and people making products about them testifies to just how brilliant the concept was in assessing player activity.
In fact, it was your website that led me to TeamLiquid.net because I looked up APM after hearing it talked about in Youtube videos on VioleTAK. Thank you so so so much!
On December 02 2010 09:49 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 07:35 Xapti wrote:
I doubt Blizzard had much to do with razer's product. Blizzard maybe just gave a bit of info (if any), and gave permission for razer to make SC themed products.
There's bee post about this APM lighting before, so I'm not sure if this new topic is justified. Reading is fundamental. >.> Cool find. EDIT: New rules to the game. If you don't understand what not to do after reading the first 5 posts (or you didn't read them), I'm upping the ante.
Jibba, you made this thread a whole lot more entertaining with all of the red text
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lol so many warned!
But to get serious the idea is good for this that you get warned when your under attack and when your APM is going low but too bad the mouse looks kind of robotisch and not very ergonomic.
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I guess I'm alone in thinking its neat. But 99% of the time, I have to keep my volume low so I don't bother the g/f watching tv... so when it blinks red when being attacked, I might pick it up a little faster.. guess I'm the minority. Plus my laptop kb and mouse need to be replace..*shrug*
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There are a hilarious amount of warnings in this thread.
I dont think APM is important enough to warrant a specific gauge for it, besides the counter in the replay. Its not like its that important to know on the spot (oh no! my APM is too low! better spam a bit more...).
Seems like it is just a fancy but unnecessary feature that sets this mouse apart from others.
Might be funny for commentators though: "oh snap, his mouse just switched from orange to red! shit just got real"
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On December 02 2010 10:25 OPSavioR wrote:
lol so many warned!
But to get serious the idea is good for this that you get warned when your under attack and when your APM is going low but too bad the mouse looks kind of robotisch and not very ergonomic.
you're making the same mistake as all those warned before you, learn from us!
this thread is getting more hiliarious as all the new posters are still making the mistake us earlier warned made. The thread discussion isn't about the Razer mouse feature!!
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United States22883 Posts
On December 02 2010 10:21 aRRR wrote:
Whats up with all these warnings? Do you get warned around here when you make fun of a Razer product?
Over many millenia, human brains have developed large frontal lobes which sets them apart from other animals.
The executive functions of the frontal lobes involve the ability to recognize future consequences resulting from current actions, to choose between good and bad actions (or better and best), override and suppress unacceptable social responses, and determine similarities and differences between things or events. Therefore, it is involved in higher mental functions. Source: Wikipedia.
Posting in threads before actually reading them constitutes an unacceptable social response, and failing to suppress this urge will get you punished. Our users all possess this ability (besides the Walrus and Sheep) and are expected to utilize it.
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No offense but I bet the OP works for Razer! Definitely shows that the Razer guerrilla advertising crew does it's research well though, and knows how to suck up to the community!
It is pretty cool that APM was invented here.
Edit:
WHOA, take it back. Looks like jca is a long time contributor and wrote some utility software to help people with bw.
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so much hate...razer is a great company and make quality products, my 5 year old copperhead speaks for itself...
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United States22883 Posts
On December 02 2010 10:32 ltortoise wrote:
No offense but I bet the OP works for Razer! Definitely shows that the Razer guerrilla advertising crew does it's research well though, and knows how to suck up to the community!
It is pretty cool that APM was invented here.
Edit:
WHOA, take it back. Looks like jca is a long time contributor and wrote some utility software to help people with bw.
Nice save.
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APM lighting is honestly a gimmick, pretty much in line with any licensed product for anything. If APM alerting is what you need, get SC2Gears with APMAlert that tells you whenever your APM drops, and you can set its threshold for doing so as well.
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United States12230 Posts
Now the real question is why did jca forget his password to his original account?
PS: hi jca good to see you =]
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It's seems almost nobody got that this thread is about how teamliquid invented the term "APM" and not about razer...
however, the amazing work of jca kinda remembered me off all the other amazing stuff that TL members contributed like chaoslauncher (Masterofchaos, you are awesome!) and so on.
Just an awesome, creative and influential community. Go TL!
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Hey JCA, I just wanted to say a big thank-you since it's because of you that I discovered the pro-scene. Many many years ago, back when I knew nothing of SC except money maps, I happened across Manifesto7's RWA site. It's because of those commentaries (only made possible through your software) that I discovered Teamliquid and started really loving Starcraft. <3
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I was actually going to purchase some of those products to see how they were, but I saw the hefty price tag. There aren't many customer reviews, so maybe when the price lowers I'll see for myself how well those stand out. Especially the keyboard.
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Ok this has gotten pretty ridiculous (yet hilarious) with people still getting banned, maybe changing the thread title would help keep discussion on topic.
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This would be kind of fun to see at tournaments.
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Oh my god this thread is golden. 1st page brings tears to my eyes.
Btw I like APM technology headsets. I wouldn't buy one but I like them because when the camera switches to the player I can tell "oh he's doing this", or "oh that thing is happening". All in all the mouse and headset are mostly fashion items in my opinion.
edit: and yeah that thread about APM invention was really nice and informative. I always thought that APM was a basic and generic game-related term.
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LoL is this one of those sponsored threads TL was talking about??
But that's cool to know thanks OP, however I am not sure what TL invented? was it the acronym APM to stand for actions per minute, or did they discover the technology to record the APM in a game?
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Seeing all the red is epic haha. I personally wouldn't use this keyboard, shiny flashy things distract me, even if I am not looking at my keyboard. Id rather have it light up when im about to get supply blocked haha
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What the hell is with all the warnings? Telling me to read the thread when I obviously did and posted to it.
The products are a waste of money and the technology is of very little use and practicality. Want to warn me for that too?
Edit: Does it matter who invented it? The thread is eventually going to just continue on about what APM is being adapted to and how the economic opportunities are being taken advantage of this useless addition of APM.
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Holy red text 
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On December 02 2010 11:00 stevarius wrote:
What the hell is with all the warnings? Telling me to read the thread when I obviously did and posted to it.
The products are a waste of money and the technology is of very little use and practicality. Want to warn me for that too?
Edit: Does it matter who invented it? The thread is eventually going to just continue on about what APM is being adapted to and how the economic opportunities are being taken advantage of this useless addition of APM.
Read the second part. The part about who invented "APM" on TL. That's the more critical part of this thread.
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On December 02 2010 11:00 stevarius wrote:
What the hell is with all the warnings? Telling me to read the thread when I obviously did and posted to it.
The products are a waste of money and the technology is of very little use and practicality. Want to warn me for that too?
I've seen them ban people for "Want to warn me for that too?" statements. Besides, this topic isn't about razer's products.
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Oorah JCA!
We love you! <3
And another one for Jibba
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you might as well ask who invented air, or food
or whatever
newsflash, people have been performing actions and time has been passing for quite a while now
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On December 02 2010 11:04 DeltruS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 11:00 stevarius wrote:
What the hell is with all the warnings? Telling me to read the thread when I obviously did and posted to it.
The products are a waste of money and the technology is of very little use and practicality. Want to warn me for that too? I've seen them ban people for "Want to warn me for that too?" statements. Besides, this topic isn't about razer's products.
Well I can't seem to find anything on who invented APM and I'm sure it was a culmination of people who projected it as a way to measure skill.... however wrong and misguided they may have been in doing so.
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On December 02 2010 11:06 stevarius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 11:04 DeltruS wrote:On December 02 2010 11:00 stevarius wrote:
What the hell is with all the warnings? Telling me to read the thread when I obviously did and posted to it.
The products are a waste of money and the technology is of very little use and practicality. Want to warn me for that too? I've seen them ban people for "Want to warn me for that too?" statements. Besides, this topic isn't about razer's products. Well I can't seem to find anything on who invented APM and I'm sure it was a culmination of people who projected it as a way to measure skill.... however wrong and misguided they may have been in doing so.
Don't be such a downer; this thread is about the awesomeness of TL, APM, JCA, and beer. We can talk about razer producs, marketing strategies, the global economy, and the discussion of APM vs skill later.
+ Show Spoiler +actually I think we've already had that last one a couple times.
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I am not sure what the OP is trying to ask. Are you asking what actions per minute is? If so, im not sure who first coined the term back in sc1 days. It's a fairly common term, like words per minute or beats per minute. It's just a form of measurement. And don't forget sc2 apm is actually misleading due to the speed settings, if i recall sc2 apm is 40% faster than the actually physical time of minute. Ex: 100 sc2 "apm" is really 140 actions per minute.
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On December 02 2010 10:31 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 10:21 aRRR wrote:
Whats up with all these warnings? Do you get warned around here when you make fun of a Razer product? Over many millenia, human brains have developed large frontal lobes which sets them apart from other animals. Show nested quote +The executive functions of the frontal lobes involve the ability to recognize future consequences resulting from current actions, to choose between good and bad actions (or better and best), override and suppress unacceptable social responses, and determine similarities and differences between things or events. Therefore, it is involved in higher mental functions. Source: Wikipedia. Posting in threads before actually reading them constitutes an unacceptable social response, and failing to suppress this urge will get you punished. Our users all possess this ability (besides the Walrus and Sheep) and are expected to utilize it.
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I really don't know what's the best about this thread. The fact that jca reminded us of how amazing TL is, or that even the people who post stuff like "lololl all those warning rofl, epic" go on to talk about the razer gear? If this were a blog, I would definitely give 5/5.
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On December 02 2010 11:10 ZomgTossRush wrote:
I am not sure what the OP is trying to ask. Are you asking what actions per minute is? If so, im not sure who first coined the term back in sc1 days. It's a fairly common term, like words per minute or beats per minute. It's just a form of measurement. And don't forget sc2 apm is actually misleading due to the speed settings, if i recall sc2 apm is 40% faster than the actually physical time of minute. Ex: 100 sc2 "apm" is really 140 actions per minute.
He asked absolutely nothing.
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A round for TL
cheers jca. thanks for an awesome program
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On December 02 2010 11:11 whitelynx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 11:10 ZomgTossRush wrote:
I am not sure what the OP is trying to ask. Are you asking what actions per minute is? If so, im not sure who first coined the term back in sc1 days. It's a fairly common term, like words per minute or beats per minute. It's just a form of measurement. And don't forget sc2 apm is actually misleading due to the speed settings, if i recall sc2 apm is 40% faster than the actually physical time of minute. Ex: 100 sc2 "apm" is really 140 actions per minute.
He asked absolutely nothing.
Exactly. The thread was meant to take whatever branch it wanted from the tree he planted. He even said cheers implying we bought a round and can discuss what we think of APM and how it's being implemented in technology as some people are taking to the concept of it.
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On December 02 2010 11:10 Keniji wrote:
I really don't know what's the best about this thread. The fact that jca reminded us of how amazing TL is, or that even the people who post stuff like "lololl all those warning rofl, epic" go on to talk about the razer gear? If this were a blog, I would definitely give 5/5.
Well I think people going on to talk about the razer gear want to bring a different point of view from the ones found in the previous comments.
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I usually take greater pride about my APM distribution and EAPM more than my APM. Speaking of which, what about the invention of EAPM? How did that come about? >.>
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Why is everyone making this thread crappy? The OP (if this is really him) is one of the most important figures in BW history. Not reading the thread and/or taking shots at the products of teamliquid's first real sponsor isn't a good way to keep it clean.
Funny enough, the first practical use of APM had nothing to do with skill level. It was used to definitively prove a certain scam way back when.
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On December 02 2010 07:31 jca2 wrote:Hi guys, Just saw that ad inside SC 2 for the new Razer gears for Starcraft 2. Keyboard and mouse now have "APM Lighting". Basically, the lights on the keyboard or the mouse will change color depending on your live APM: APM LightingI read that ad with a bit of "nostalgie" going back 7 years in the past, right here, on TeamLiquid.net where APM was invented: Who invented APM?Maybe some of you did not know about TL back then, but yes, this is the kind of impact that the TL community has on the world of eSports. It got Blizzard to add APM inside SC 2 and Razer inside its devices. Not bad. A round for TL
It is amazing.
I'm not sure if you're being modest, but isn't it clear that you invented APM? BWChart changed the game of Starcraft, and esports in general, forever. I'm a little uncomfortable with Razer cashing in on an idea it didn't create, but it does show the ubiquity of the concept of APM, and just how powerful a community can be.
Cheers man!
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On December 02 2010 11:17 LunarC wrote:
I usually take greater pride about my APM distribution and EAPM more than my APM. Speaking of which, what about the invention of EAPM? How did that come about? >.>
I don't remember when specifically or what program was the first, but I think there were a few other programs like bwrepinfo that calculated EAPM in addition to APM. It was the result of community reaction to APM and a general consensus that spammers with 300 APM that can't win pubs on b.net didn't deserve to have the same rating as progamers.
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Catyoul
France2377 Posts
Hehe hello JCA ! If I had been asked, I would have answered you did. Ah nostalgia
Also, this thread is absolutely hilarious. Much <3 to mods for coloring it up !
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Is this a temp-banned trap/warn trap? Seems like it is...anyway i dont like how your question is wrapped up in information about a controversial product (which its most likely to get discussed)..You trapped so many people with it by just jumping from one technological and game gear topic to "who invendet apm?". You even gave an answer or at least a hint for your question by stating that TL might have "invented" apm..
What i have to say: Asking "Who invented APM" is similiar to asking "who invented mph", or "who invented gravity"...you , dear thread starter would obviously say "oohhh i know that, that was Newton!!". But i say, no one did, it was there the whole time, Newton just gave it a name. Its the same with APM, except that there is no official "namegiver" to apm afaik.
If youre the namegiver of apm, feel free to feel like newton...
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Why is there so many warnings? Bug or something?
I have no opinion about APM lighting gear, as I do not want to get banned or warned.
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On December 02 2010 11:22 brendan.zerg116109 wrote:
wow so much red i guess its a power hungery admin. I dont know who created apm but my guess is a TL member used a abreviation and it stuck.
Well in the linked thread you can read the name of the inventor
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On December 02 2010 11:22 brendan.zerg116109 wrote:
wow so much red i guess its a power hungery admin. I dont know who created apm but my guess is a TL member used a abreviation and it stuck.
Read the damn OP. He's the one that invented APM by creating a program called bwchart. And there are no power-hungry admins, just people that don't know how to read or lack fully developed frontal lobes.
On December 02 2010 11:24 Slims20 wrote:
Why is there so many warnings? Bug or something?
I have no opinion about APM lighting gear, as I do not want to get banned or warned.
This thread isn't about the gear.
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On December 02 2010 11:24 Slims20 wrote:
Why is there so many warnings? Bug or something?
I have no opinion about APM lighting gear, as I do not want to get banned or warned.
There are so many warnings because everybody is talking about razer when the OP is simply commending teamliquid for inventing APM.
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this thread is hilarious
seems like most people didnt actually read the first post
myself included, up until a few minutes ago
lol.
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Lol you should ask for royalties, you never know it could work! :D
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Braavos36372 Posts
On December 02 2010 11:22 W.O.L.F.Y. wrote:
...
What i have to say: Asking "Who invented APM" is similiar to asking "who invented mph", or "who invented gravity"...you , dear thread starter would obviously say "oohhh i know that, that was Newton!!". But i say, no one did, it was there the whole time, Newton just gave it a name. Its the same with APM, except that there is no official "namegiver" to apm afaik.
...
Pretty sure the guy who created bwchart, the first ever program to measure and record actions per minute and call it APM, invented APM. That guy is this thread creator.
If you (and others) read the OP more carefully there wouldn't be so many warnings and bans.
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Cheers to JCA, Cheers to TL, Cheers to BW, Cheers to Razer, and most importantly: Cheers to the Mods. Too funny.
XD
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It's like a reading comprehension question.
The OP's description on the Razer mouse is:
A) The main topic of the thread.
B) A humorous anecdote.
C) An allusion to T.S. Elliot's The Waste Land.
D) An introduction to his main point.
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On December 02 2010 11:22 W.O.L.F.Y. wrote:
Is this a temp-banned trap/warn trap? Seems like it is...anyway i dont like how your question is wrapped up in information about a controversial product (which its most likely to get discussed)..You trapped so many people with it by just jumping from one technological and game gear topic to "who invendet apm?". You even gave an answer or at least a hint for your question by stating that TL might have "invented" apm..
What i have to say: Asking "Who invented APM" is similiar to asking "who invented mph", or "who invented gravity"...you , dear thread starter would obviously say "oohhh i know that, that was Newton!!". But i say, no one did, it was there the whole time, Newton just gave it a name. Its the same with APM, except that there is no official "namegiver" to apm afaik.
I think for your rather dim-witted question YOU should get banned...Man you cant start Threads like that, trap that many people (ok they were stupid enough to talk offtopic) and stay unbanned. I mean even if that "you trapped so many people you should get banned for that" argument is invalid, you should get banned/temp banned for your thread..
What are you talking about? There's no question "wrapped up" in the OP at all.
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On December 02 2010 11:38 Slow Motion wrote:
It's like a reading comprehension question.
The OP's description on the Razer mouse is:
A) The main topic of the thread.
B) A humorous anecdote.
C) An allusion to T.S. Elliot's The Waste Land.
D) An introduction to his main point.
I'm going to have to go with "C". If there is one thing that I learned in college it's always pick the answer that sounds the smartest.
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United States7166 Posts
APM may have come a long ways, but average TL member's reading comprehension levels...
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Amazing, I did not know that APM had its roots in TL. I just saw it in the BWcharts and thought it was a 'common' measurement. Well then, to the creator, add another random person in the world crediting you for 'APM'.
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On December 02 2010 11:42 slam wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 11:38 Slow Motion wrote:
It's like a reading comprehension question.
The OP's description on the Razer mouse is:
A) The main topic of the thread.
B) A humorous anecdote.
C) An allusion to T.S. Elliot's The Waste Land.
D) An introduction to his main point. I'm going to have to go with "C". If there is one thing that I learned in college it's always pick the answer that sounds the smartest.
Haha, I almost replied with a similar justification for the same answer! :D
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It seems like a lot of people are missing the fact that the underlined section "Who invented APM?" is actually a URL.
Then again, maybe they just stopped reading after seeing the Razer product link.
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APM is snyonimous with RTS gaming and skill, dexterity, and level of play.
Knowing that it was invented here on TL.net by a TL.net forum go'er is very inspiring.
Makes you think what TL.net will do next that will have an impact on an entire genre!
Go tl.net! TL.net INVENTING!!!!!!!!
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Ok OP this just goes to show you, never mention something bright and flashy in your topic if it is not the main point of the topic; people are attracted to bright and flashy, and will ignore anything, however intelligent it may be, over bright and flashy.
And this thread looks like it could be the origin of APM, that's pretty cool.
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I had no idea the term and theory behind APM was coined by a TL user, I always just assumed it was something the Koreans came up with. I guess you learn something new every day.
Now if only you'd put a patent out on that shit... heh
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This thread is an awesome example of how many people are too post hungry to read anything! Very entertaining though.
I remember the days of BW back before APM was something that was discussed and recorded. I even remember when BWChart was released and APM was the hugest fad ever. My APM at the time was like 125 and my friend and I used to have competitions on who could get higher APM while still playing well.
Ah the good old days, this thread really makes me reminisce :D Thanks for this, really cool thread and a reminder of the great times I used to have playing SC and BW!
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Wow, pretty nifty seeing old threads like those. I love how there were already seeds for the apm vs skill debate all the way back then.
I was actually surprised that the thread was from 2003-ish -- I'd have thought that APM would have come about a couple of years earlier. I always forget that though SC has been around for a hella long time as far as video games go, it's still fairly young in the grand scheme of things.
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So... this is going straight into the thread hall of fame, right? I've never seen such an epic honeytrap.
On topic: who invented superview? What exactly was the program used for, besides measuring something that hadn't been exactly invented yet?
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On December 02 2010 11:53 MiniTsunami wrote:
This thread is an awesome example of how many people are too post hungry to read anything! Very entertaining though.
I remember the days of BW back before APM was something that was discussed and recorded. I even remember when BWChart was released and APM was the hugest fad ever. My APM at the time was like 125 and my friend and I used to have competitions on who could get higher APM while still playing well.
Ah the good old days, this thread really makes me reminisce :D Thanks for this, really cool thread and a reminder of the great times I used to have playing SC and BW!
Speaking of the good old days, any relation to 1st~Tsunami?
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On December 02 2010 11:38 Slow Motion wrote:
It's like a reading comprehension question.
The OP's description on the Razer mouse is:
A) The main topic of the thread.
B) A humorous anecdote.
C) An allusion to T.S. Elliot's The Waste Land.
D) An introduction to his main point.
hmmm, is it possible to select 2 items?
I love this thread, and I have to say, lurking the TL forums and learning about BW (and laterSC2) and niche RTS terms like APM has been pretty entertaining!
Cheers
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Wow, if you click the links in the OP you get to this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=3682
Absolutely hilarious read for someone who didn't get into SC until 2008. Seemed so awkward to see people type act/min and actually spell out "actions per minute", I was amazed to go through all the posts and not one person actually used the term APM. I was curious when the first usage of the abbreviation APM was actually used on TL, one thread pointed to LumberJack in this thread (his 4th or 5th post in the link), on May 05, 2003, can anyone find an earlier post?
TL history is surprisingly interesting.
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On December 02 2010 10:31 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 10:21 aRRR wrote:
Whats up with all these warnings? Do you get warned around here when you make fun of a Razer product? Over many millenia, human brains have developed large frontal lobes which sets them apart from other animals.
^ This is epic sir.
I was actually surprised to find that Liquipedia Article on BWChart actually doesn't have much information on the history behind it's acceptance or how it helped APM to become a standard measure of RTS play. Maybe an expert (wink wink) could add that info, I love reading about things that went on in the days before I had an internet connection.
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Pretty hilarious to see the slow evolution of APM. 2003 and people are hovering around 200. 7 years later and S-Clss BW players double it easily :O
Never knew JCA invented BWchart. Congrats to your contribution to e-sports :D I always felt naked without WC3chart^^
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On December 02 2010 11:56 Igakusei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 11:53 MiniTsunami wrote:
This thread is an awesome example of how many people are too post hungry to read anything! Very entertaining though.
I remember the days of BW back before APM was something that was discussed and recorded. I even remember when BWChart was released and APM was the hugest fad ever. My APM at the time was like 125 and my friend and I used to have competitions on who could get higher APM while still playing well.
Ah the good old days, this thread really makes me reminisce :D Thanks for this, really cool thread and a reminder of the great times I used to have playing SC and BW! Speaking of the good old days, any relation to 1st~Tsunami?
1st~Tsunami was my good friend and mentor. He taught me all the fundamentals of SC/BW and along with SubKaiser, is a huge reason I was able to play that game well and topped the ladder/kbk ladders/wgtour etc for so long :D
BTW a cute note about Tsunami. He played on an old school Mac, with 1 click button, and his APM was 50. And yet he was able to compete with all the top players of that time simply due to his amazing strategic mind and originality. (Obviously this was before people could just copy other people and use their strategies better etc.)
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Wow I've never seen so many people warned in succession before lol.
I didn't know the origin of APM before this post.
Thanks for the contribution.
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First off it's highly doubtful the OP is the original JCA. Secondly it's pretty hilarious that a bunch of TL admin/mods feel so insecure that they need to red ink everyone's post. Somehow i don't see the connection between the ability to red ink and reading comprehension, overall knowledge, intelligence etc.
Yeah you might be better than average, but there are definitely many people much better than average. Yeah I know how offending this is to read if this so happens to be related to your general thought processes. And statistically speaking there are most certainly enough mods on here that at least one reading this will lay down you know what for taking the offense to his/her ego.
User was banned for this post.
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On December 02 2010 11:35 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 11:22 W.O.L.F.Y. wrote:
...
What i have to say: Asking "Who invented APM" is similiar to asking "who invented mph", or "who invented gravity"...you , dear thread starter would obviously say "oohhh i know that, that was Newton!!". But i say, no one did, it was there the whole time, Newton just gave it a name. Its the same with APM, except that there is no official "namegiver" to apm afaik.
... Pretty sure the guy who created bwchart, the first ever program to measure and record actions per minute and call it APM, invented APM. That guy is this thread creator. If you (and others) read the OP more carefully there wouldn't be so many warnings and bans.
Ok...youre right somehow i really misread the OP...maybe i was too much focused and used to people asking questions when they start a topic, that i halucinated a question out of his text...So i will going to work on my reading skills.
Big thx to the thread starter, you did something revolutionary, cheers.
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On December 02 2010 07:31 jca2 wrote:Hi guys, Just saw that ad inside SC 2 for the new Razer gears for Starcraft 2. Keyboard and mouse now have "APM Lighting". Basically, the lights on the keyboard or the mouse will change color depending on your live APM: APM LightingI read that ad with a bit of "nostalgie" going back 7 years in the past, right here, on TeamLiquid.net where APM was invented: Who invented APM?Maybe some of you did not know about TL back then, but yes, this is the kind of impact that the TL community has on the world of eSports. It got Blizzard to add APM inside SC 2 and Razer inside its devices. Not bad. A round for TL Mod Edit: + Show Spoiler [READ] +I've decided to take mercy upon some of you and to be more up front about teaching this lesson. Before you post, read the entire OP, understand it, and if you have free time even read the next few pages to understand what's going on. Do not immediately regurgitate the first thing that comes to mind. This thread is about jca/bwcharts/TL member contributions, etc. It is not about Razer products. If you fail to read this warning, then you're totally fucked.
wouw...i can remember parts of the story back then now that i read it again...
cool, that a thing which was invented (actually just the possibility to display and compare it) here on by a member of tl.net, became a standard component for one the biggest esports titles these days and a significant indicator of certain abilities for quite a lot of other games...AND based on this there's now even seperate technology available for this...
quite impressive i gotta admit! you should've made some patents on this
gz anyway
i'm wondering if there's a next step...
or if there will be even found a new interesting indicator...
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This thread can potentially be on its way to be in the TL hall of fame. TL needs a reading comprehension test when people register IMO.
Razer is running the term APM for those who don't know whats up
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Didn't the guy who made BWChart invented APM?
How did TL invent it?
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On December 02 2010 12:08 xMiragex wrote:
This thread can potentially be on its way to be in the TL hall of fame. TL needs a reading comprehension test when people register IMO.
Razer is running the term APM for those who don't know whats up
TL hwaiting! I had no idea jca and TL were so amazing. To think, it all started here!
I think the reading comprehension would be amazing. It would raise the standards of our community even more, and might be used by mods as a preemptive, loose judging mechanic as to how good of posters some of the new members are.
Didn't the guy who made BWChart invented APM?
How did TL invent it?
My understanding is that jca is a TL member, so TL didn't invent it per se, but APM did sort of come "from" TL...just not as a collaborative effort...I guess?
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So JCA was the originator of the bwcharts which is what current apm is based off of? Was this the first instance of recording actions in some time frame or were there others before his? I ask because I am only curious, and welcome back JCA (even though I wasn't around then).
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looking at the 1st 2 pages, so much red ...........
the red LED from the mouse went there
in the posts
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On December 02 2010 12:11 Highways wrote:
Didn't the guy who made BWChart invented APM?
How did TL invent it?
the guy who invented BWchart is jca I believe, also this thread is cool for so many reasons
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United States22883 Posts
On December 02 2010 12:02 NearPerfection wrote:
First off it's highly doubtful the OP is the original JCA. Check it.
Secondly it's pretty hilarious that a bunch of TL admin/mods feel so insecure that they need to red ink everyone's post. Somehow i don't see the connection between the ability to red ink and reading comprehension, overall knowledge, intelligence etc.
Yeah you might be better than average, but there are definitely many people much better than average. Yeah I know how offending this is to read if this so happens to be related to your general thought processes. And statistically speaking there are most certainly enough mods on here that at least one reading this will lay down you know what for taking the offense to his/her ego. Not a bunch, just me and it's got nothing to do with my ego . In fact, I've been worried the whole time about being too harsh which is why I started with warnings, then made a post telling people to read and warning them about future punishment, renamed the thread to make it more clear and then added an extra warning in the OP so that it would be dead obvious who skipped over it.
My apologies to jca for derailing the thread a bit, but there's a problem where people post before reading and a little system shock is often the best way to fix it. For the record, I had no idea where APM came from and I had forgotten who jca was before I came into the thread. I simply read the OP, checked out his links and understood. That's what everyone should do. Even if you didn't play BW, you should check out the links to see how pivotal BWCharts and jca's contributions were. Stuff like BWCharts, RWA and ChaosLauncher seem pretty ghetto today, but they came from this community and had a huge impact on all of BW, even in Korea.
EDIT: Almost forgot about superpenguin and PenguinPlug. :> Oh my god, you can read the chat in replays???
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Pretty cool fact, I always just assumed APM was arbitrary stat that was somehow adopted like most internet acronyms. Cool to know it was pretty much concieved on this website.
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Oh my god. o.o.
But thanks for pointing this out JCA, think its really cool ^^.
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Dominican Republic913 Posts
On December 02 2010 11:11 whitelynx wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 11:10 ZomgTossRush wrote:
I am not sure what the OP is trying to ask. Are you asking what actions per minute is? If so, im not sure who first coined the term back in sc1 days. It's a fairly common term, like words per minute or beats per minute. It's just a form of measurement. And don't forget sc2 apm is actually misleading due to the speed settings, if i recall sc2 apm is 40% faster than the actually physical time of minute. Ex: 100 sc2 "apm" is really 140 actions per minute.
He asked absolutely nothing.
he didnt ask, he respond the question about apm.
But i have other question to admins, i see many ppl banned
can some admin explain me why those ppl are banned?
what i mean is they are talking about the subject, maybe not real answers but they are discusting the topic, and some others have talk things correctly to me and they get banned
some times im afraid to talk because i think i will get in the same banwagon 
sorry for my english my natural language is spanish.
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JCA deserves a medal ahahaha. Even people I talk to at school who play warcraft or what have you understand the concept of APM; it's quite amazing how big it's become.
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Saying "lol so much warnings and bannings and red text in this thread" is no better than the situation in the first page.
The idea of having high APM came from Korean players. When Starcraft was new, it was normal to click a lot and barely use any hotkeys. It quickly caught on when people realized how insane and all-over-the-place their play was, then I guess TL started wondering what the actual number of these players's APM was and thus many APM measuring programs were born.
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On December 02 2010 12:08 xMiragex wrote:
This thread can potentially be on its way to be in the TL hall of fame. TL needs a reading comprehension test when people register IMO.
Razer is running the term APM for those who don't know whats up
This reminded me of this:
+ Show Spoiler [xkcd] +
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if your going to warn/temp ban literally half the people who post in this topic you should probably just close the thread, as if the OP is gonna get any real concrete answer as to who "invented" apm?
User was temp banned for this post.
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So we trace back the footsteps and find the first usage of the term "APM" to be in TeamLiquid itself.
Of course, Jca is to be credited for coining the term and spreading it throughout the global. Good job, Jca. You literally changed the world, and left a footprint on it that will outlast all of us here.
+ Show Spoiler +
I was fucking surprised and taken back twice when I scrolled down and saw all the warnings lmao. Some of the bans were just hilarious.
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Braavos36372 Posts
On December 02 2010 12:02 NearPerfection wrote:
First off it's highly doubtful the OP is the original JCA. Secondly it's pretty hilarious that a bunch of TL admin/mods feel so insecure that they need to red ink everyone's post. Somehow i don't see the connection between the ability to red ink and reading comprehension, overall knowledge, intelligence etc.
Yeah you might be better than average, but there are definitely many people much better than average. Yeah I know how offending this is to read if this so happens to be related to your general thought processes. And statistically speaking there are most certainly enough mods on here that at least one reading this will lay down you know what for taking the offense to his/her ego.
Good luck on your next account.
Edit: Your previous account has like half a dozen bans and warnings too, thanks for drawing attention to yourself so nicely with this post
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Bookmarking this thread because I'm 99.9% positive that if I come back here in a year the entire first two pages will be nuke icons.
Amazing how much influence something seemingly small can have in the gaming community, huh? Cheers to TL and JCA for paving the way!
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To the ban list!
The reasons for all those bans will be awesome!
On an actual note, i had no clue who invented APM until this thread, grats and thank you for the term.
<3<3<3
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JCA! I think it is about time to track down ezprey and have a rematch.
Sadly, with wgtour gone there doesn't seem to be any links that I can share with the first TLTour results that will help put this in context.
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Oh man... seeing all of these new users who don't know about who jca is, and trying to tell the inventor of apm that nobody invented it, makes me realize that the majority of teamliquid users today probably doesn't know that much about BW history. To think, all of these people missed the epicness the first day PenguinPlug was released!
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On December 02 2010 12:38 Dubz wrote:
if your going to warn/temp ban literally half the people who post in this topic you should probably just close the thread, as if the OP is gonna get any real concrete answer as to who "invented" apm?
User was temp banned for this post.
Oh my god this has to be the best post of the whole thread so far!
As for apm in general, i always assumed it was the koreans who passed it over, had no idea we as a community came up with the notion :o.
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On December 02 2010 13:00 iamke55 wrote:
Oh man... seeing all of these new users who don't know about who jca is, and trying to tell the inventor of apm that nobody invented it, makes me realize that the majority of teamliquid users today probably doesn't know that much about BW history. To think, all of these people missed the epicness the first day PenguinPlug was released!
I don't think I was active then, but I'm going to guess that a ton of people got caught maphacking?
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JCA has created a ban trap lol
On to the topic, yeah reading that original thread that was made 8 years ago was pretty fun actually to see what people were calling APM back in the day "Act/min" lol
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Wow I had no clue TL(jca) invented APM. AMAZING! Also it's hilarious looking at those old threads and seeing people say, "does this work for windows 98?".
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Didn't know that APM was inveted on TL.. Perhaps OP would be kind enough to link to the original thread for us History buffs that came to the TL fold post BW?
Side Note:
The reading comprehension seems to only extend to the first thing that strikes a cord.. rofl @ reds. Quality stuff.
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On December 02 2010 13:06 Igakusei wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 13:00 iamke55 wrote:
Oh man... seeing all of these new users who don't know about who jca is, and trying to tell the inventor of apm that nobody invented it, makes me realize that the majority of teamliquid users today probably doesn't know that much about BW history. To think, all of these people missed the epicness the first day PenguinPlug was released! I don't think I was active then, but I'm going to guess that a ton of people got caught maphacking?
The way it "caught" people wasn't like more modern anti-hack programs though. The most popular map hack of the day had a hidden command that caused the user to un-ally himself, which the creator put in so that people wouldn't use his own hack against him. The guy who created PenguinPlug somehow figured out a way to activate that command, so teamliquid users that day gathered many screenshots of maphackers saying things like "OMG my units are killing each other! wtf you're hacking!" and stuff like that.
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Oh gosh who would've guessed a (seemingly) rhetorical question wouldve ensued such a topic... anyways...
As someone who just got into Starcraft because of Starcraft 2, it's always nice to see Teamliquid's history and influence in e sports culture (which is huge... I mean just look at how John specifically reacts to the teamliquid forum accusations and concerns). I'm confused though... I really read through the JCA thread (this one), the one he linked to, and the link inside that one. Other people credit JCA, but in JCA's own thread he credits laptoplegacy?
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On December 02 2010 13:11 Prophecy3 wrote:
Didn't know that APM was inveted on TL.. Perhaps OP would be kind enough to link to the original thread for us History buffs that came to the TL fold post BW?
Side Note:
The reading comprehension seems to only extend to the first thing that strikes a cord.. rofl @ reds. Quality stuff. I'm guessing you just didn't notice, but the underlined text in the OP is a link
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Wow, that's pretty cool that APM originated from TL. Reading those old threads was really informative. It was cool to see a discussion of BW APM where 300 APM was an insane amount. It also makes me wonder if you could send a current BW B-teamer back in time to 2003 if they'd become one of the best players in the world because of their modern mechanics. I'm not sure if they'd be better than someone like NaDa, but it would still be a really interesting match: 2003 NaDa vs. 2010 B-Teamer.
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Wow, I had no idea that it was a TL user who came up with the entire concept of APM. I thought it was just... you know, a thing that naturally came to be, I guess.
Has TL come up with anything else that actually later got added into a game, like the APM counter in SC2?
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United States22883 Posts
On December 02 2010 13:18 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 13:06 Igakusei wrote:On December 02 2010 13:00 iamke55 wrote:
Oh man... seeing all of these new users who don't know about who jca is, and trying to tell the inventor of apm that nobody invented it, makes me realize that the majority of teamliquid users today probably doesn't know that much about BW history. To think, all of these people missed the epicness the first day PenguinPlug was released! I don't think I was active then, but I'm going to guess that a ton of people got caught maphacking? The way it "caught" people wasn't like more modern anti-hack programs though. The most popular map hack of the day had a hidden command that caused the user to un-ally himself, which the creator put in so that people wouldn't use his own hack against him. The guy who created PenguinPlug somehow figured out a way to activate that command, so teamliquid users that day gathered many screenshots of maphackers saying things like "OMG my units are killing each other! wtf you're hacking!" and stuff like that.
Also of note was the way BWChart was used to catch automining/MBS/multi-command cheats (which were standard for a lot of map hackers.) When you opened up a replay, you could see a timestamp for every single action down to the millisecond, so the people cheating had a record of simultaneously sending all their workers to mine within 5ms.
There's a handful of strategy forum posts where someone would post their replays and then get caught. Pretty hilarious stuff.
adeezy, he meant that LaptopLegacy was the first to actually say 'apm.' Everyone was saying stuff like 'action/min' before that.
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That's cool, didn't know that. Kind of deserve all the threads about it then though :o)
Now we just have to discover that the term "balance" was coined here as well and all is explained!
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MURICA15980 Posts
I wish I could have been here for the ban-fest. Geez, to tell the guy who invented APM that nobody invented it and that nobody knows is just ridiculous after all those links in the OP.
This community needs a special place for somebody like JCA who totally changed the scene not only here but in Korea as well. In fact, he's probably changed it forever.
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It should have been APS. As in "I have 3.14159265 APS."
Yes, that would have been much better.
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Why in the name of all that is holy does JCA not have a star?
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The original post is not very clear to begin with so banning all these people seems a bit harsh.
Anyway, one thing I am curious about is if BW's APM measured by APM Live or BWChart, which usually came up with similar results, differ in any way to how Blizzard's system measures APM. Does anyone know the answer to this?
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On December 02 2010 13:32 Igakusei wrote:
It should have been APS. As in "I have 3.14159265 APS."
Yes, that would have been much better.
pie?
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On December 02 2010 13:35 Devolved wrote:
The original post is not very clear to begin with so banning all these people seems a bit harsh.
Anyway, one thing I am curious about is if BW's APM measured by APM Live or BWChart, which usually came up with similar results, differ in any way to how Blizzard's system measures APM. Does anyone know the answer to this?
Blizzards system uses game time to calculate apm, but game time is not the same as real time. Basically the calculation is the same, but sc2 is telling you actions per 40 seconds, not actions per minute.
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On December 02 2010 13:35 Devolved wrote:
The original post is not very clear to begin with so banning all these people seems a bit harsh.
Anyway, one thing I am curious about is if BW's APM measured by APM Live or BWChart, which usually came up with similar results, differ in any way to how Blizzard's system measures APM. Does anyone know the answer to this?
The key difference with Blizzard's APM is that it is in in-game time, not real time. On the Faster setting in Starcraft 2, I believe 45 real seconds are equal to 1 in-game minute, and thus you have the discrepancy. While in the confines on SC2 it works, but comparing APM to older numbers from Brood War does not work.
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holy bantrap, that "?"... too good.
On December 02 2010 13:32 Igakusei wrote:
It should have been APS. As in "I have 3.14159265 APS."
Yes, that would have been much better.
And so my username on bnet is aPs ^_^. People never seem to know what it means.
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Hong Kong20321 Posts
bw chart is aweosme.
bw chart also made apm and even the korean leagues use it (Well at least OSL does in the post game statistics! how awesome is that.)
grats jca
i remember being so amazed by bwchart when i was first introduced to it, and staring at all the progamer hotkey-ing pages.. like huge chunks of purple numbers everywhere.
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One of the cool things about BWChart that I really liked was the hotkey tracker. I never knew how often top level players actually used their hotkeys until looking at one of those screens and seeing it completely covered in numbers. Then I compared it to my own chart and saw a very small spattering of hotkeys. This actually improved my skill and speed because it made me focus on using hotkeys, but I was never able to match any of the top players' hotkey screens.
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United States17042 Posts
grats JCA. Everyone from starcraft should buy you a beer (I would) ^^
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This is going to be a legendary thread. Its like the Boston Massacre
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I barely played SC before SCII but even I used bwchart in my brief time with BW. Thanks JCA, TL love
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United States17042 Posts
On December 02 2010 12:14 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 12:02 NearPerfection wrote:
First off it's highly doubtful the OP is the original JCA. Check it.
can we give him his account back? He deserves it anyways.... >.>
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Good job TL, you have a huge influence on E-sports, and gaming products as a whole. (Damn this place has been around for a long time.)
Edit: Why have the part about the razor mice anyways?
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I'm tired of all these sc2 noobs that just come and use their limited experience to form their opinions.
I for one, used bw chart during my whole broodwar career ( measly 2 years) to monitor my progress, which never went past 100 apm. There is something about sc2 that allowed me to learn proper rts mechanics that when I returned to broodwar for fun after a few months of sc2 my apm had risen to 120. Really interesting that this whole trend came from team liquid, i always thought it was a korean thing... By the way using sc2gears to monitor my progress now, wonder if jca is involved in this project?
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so apm is only 8 years old? what?
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On December 02 2010 07:31 jca2 wrote:Hi guys, Just saw that ad inside SC 2 for the new Razer gears for Starcraft 2. Keyboard and mouse now have "APM Lighting". Basically, the lights on the keyboard or the mouse will change color depending on your live APM: APM LightingI read that ad with a bit of "nostalgie" going back 7 years in the past, right here, on TeamLiquid.net where APM was invented: Who invented APM?Maybe some of you did not know about TL back then, but yes, this is the kind of impact that the TL community has on the world of eSports. It got Blizzard to add APM inside SC 2 and Razer inside its devices. Not bad. A round for TL Mod Edit: + Show Spoiler [READ] +I've decided to take mercy upon some of you and to be more up front about teaching this lesson. Before you post, read the entire OP, understand it, and if you have free time even read the next few pages to understand what's going on. Do not immediately regurgitate the first thing that comes to mind. This thread is about jca/bwcharts/TL member contributions, etc. It is not about Razer products. If you fail to read this warning, then you're totally fucked.
Love ya TL and Cheers JCA.
Just goes to show how influential a group of people with a similar passion can be.
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It's really cool that a member here was able to make such a big contribution to all the brood war players. I love bwchart from the bottom of my heart. Thanks a lot for your hard work, TC.
Even though I (and I guess pretty much everyone else) don't like to really gauge anything important from APM, there's just something about that little number that makes you feel better the higher it is..
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This is pretty cool. APM is just common starcraft talk now. Who would've guessed that it began years ago in a thread just like this.
What makes TL amazing is the community and i'm proud to be apart of it.
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The people buying the beer that JCA is toasting us all with should be Razor who is now making money off his brilliant program that encapsulated this idea =D
But alas, such is fate =(
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jca is awesome, simply put. All the mods just helped make this thread more entertaining, but this was definitely a little bit of knowledge that I did not know. As a relatively new TLer, thank you for showing us how awesome this place has been over the years.
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i remember hearing about that old apm chart by jca.
i never found it attractive because i was a fan of Grrr... whom if i recall correctly, thought it was just button mashing?
i could be totally off but i remember his apm was like what.. 130? 160?
and then i remember seeing a VOD of .... err.. the guy from denmark or norway or something..
there were 2 of them. sVEN and... slayer..? oh fuck i forgot
anyway
they had hands of lightening!!! and thats how i really got into "apm" when i was trying to see how fast they were actually going. how it helped; stuff like that
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I've gotta admit, I flat out started laughing as I read this thread and saw so many warnings and bans from people that clearly had no idea what bwchart or who jca is. He was our wizard before anyone even knew the name R1CH. Bwchart paved the way for so many other applications that benefited the SC community of old - I've seen them mentioned in this thread, too. I felt so nostalgic reading about them - especially the mention of RWA, also brought to us by JCA. Heh, RWA - replays with audio - software that allowed you to record your own commentary to a replay file and load it up in brood war to watch and listen as a regular replay. And this was looooong before YouTube - in truth, RWA was pretty much the start of English casting (c'mon, nobody took Korn's WCG casts seriously), and the first time many of us heard Manifesto's manly voice.
I hope the guys that were temp banned get around to coming back and re-reading this thread. This bit of Brood War history isn't something that should be missed out on. People take APM for granted nowadays... so I suppose it's not hard to believe that many thought this thread was a rhetorical/stupid question as to 'who invented apm' since it's been part of StarCraft for so many years. But in fact this thread was simply the creator of BWchart (and by extension APM) creating a thread that showed his satisfaction that his contributions from so many years ago still have such a big influence on the community.
This is a big thank you to JCA for everything he's done. I firmly believe that BWchart impacted the scene more than anyone that got banned in this thread could ever know. Heck, I'm pretty sure my very first post on TL was some query regarding BWchart.
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On December 02 2010 11:44 Zelniq wrote:
APM may have come a long ways, but average TL member's reading comprehension levels...
The reading comprehension levels in this thread make me never want to trust any strategy thread ever again.
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A big thank you to JCA for creating BWchart!
But imo, all the warnings/temp bans are a bit far, haha.
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I saw the thread title and immediately thought "that's easy, jca did."
bwchart's effect has been gargantuan.
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Speaking of the classic BW chart i used and loved, have you made one for sc2? Or do you feel blizzard covered everything in the new replay system or has it even been covered by another person?
Thanks for making starcraft more awesome than it already was! :D
Thank you poster below me
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On December 02 2010 14:49 actionbastrd wrote:
Speaking of the classic BW chart i used and loved, have you made one for sc2? Or do you feel blizzard covered everything in the new replay system or has it even been covered by another person?
Thanks for making starcraft more awesome than it already was! :D
Search SC2Gears. That's the equivalent for SC2.
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Really interesting post. Makes you think.
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Wow! This is really cool to think that we, as a community, have effected Starcraft so much! I always thought that APM was either some Korean thing or it was a term created long before BW. Awesome post!
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Lol at all the temp bans/warnings. But thnx for letting us know what the background was of the post was whoever that mod was. I was about to put a sly comment about razer as well. haha
But anyway, I think TL has a lot more power than we credit ourselves for. Yes, we think that every little bitch and whine we make is going unheard by Bliz, but obviously the world is watching!
We should learn from this and understand that we should become more professional. We will make an impact on this gaming community, so lets not be idiots. =D
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On December 02 2010 13:27 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 13:18 iamke55 wrote:On December 02 2010 13:06 Igakusei wrote:On December 02 2010 13:00 iamke55 wrote:
Oh man... seeing all of these new users who don't know about who jca is, and trying to tell the inventor of apm that nobody invented it, makes me realize that the majority of teamliquid users today probably doesn't know that much about BW history. To think, all of these people missed the epicness the first day PenguinPlug was released! I don't think I was active then, but I'm going to guess that a ton of people got caught maphacking? The way it "caught" people wasn't like more modern anti-hack programs though. The most popular map hack of the day had a hidden command that caused the user to un-ally himself, which the creator put in so that people wouldn't use his own hack against him. The guy who created PenguinPlug somehow figured out a way to activate that command, so teamliquid users that day gathered many screenshots of maphackers saying things like "OMG my units are killing each other! wtf you're hacking!" and stuff like that. Also of note was the way BWChart was used to catch automining/MBS/multi-command cheats (which were standard for a lot of map hackers.) When you opened up a replay, you could see a timestamp for every single action down to the millisecond, so the people cheating had a record of simultaneously sending all their workers to mine within 5ms. There's a handful of strategy forum posts where someone would post their replays and then get caught. Pretty hilarious stuff. adeezy, he meant that LaptopLegacy was the first to actually say 'apm.' Everyone was saying stuff like 'action/min' before that.
Thank you for answering my question on 2nd page that explains a lot as I was confused by the OP
On December 02 2010 14:38 FrostOtter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 11:44 Zelniq wrote:
APM may have come a long ways, but average TL member's reading comprehension levels... The reading comprehension levels in this thread make me never want to trust any strategy thread ever again.
LoL you should already be holding everything to a microscope...
BTW i know the OP is an icon of the community (as he should be) but I think he should get temp banned too! I mean he did make that pretty confusing and unclear (and yes I knew about links as well)
but best thread I have been a part of so far lol
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For those who don't know, BwChart was also used to find progamer smurf accounts. One poster, roMAD, was particularly good at recognizing progamer hotkey patterns in BWchart and would regularly identify progamers for high level players who played them on iccup.
Search "iccup who is who" in TL to see him at work.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
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On December 02 2010 15:16 jalstar wrote:
For those who don't know, BwChart was also used to find progamer smurf accounts.
like banana.milk?
good times
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wow some admin went on a warning spree in this thread.
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Haha no RoMAD in here?
Thanks jca!
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So if jca invented APM, then how long did it take for the Korean Pro scene to use it in their analysis of the players?
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Well that's absolutely fascinating. I had no idea the site was so influential
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 02 2010 13:22 Nexic wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 13:11 Prophecy3 wrote:
Didn't know that APM was inveted on TL.. Perhaps OP would be kind enough to link to the original thread for us History buffs that came to the TL fold post BW?
Side Note:
The reading comprehension seems to only extend to the first thing that strikes a cord.. rofl @ reds. Quality stuff. I'm guessing you just didn't notice, but the underlined text in the OP is a link
No I didn't realize that actually, thank you.
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The warnings/bannings for commenting on the usefulness of the product thrown in seem a bit harsh.
It's nice to see the impact generated from members posting here but surely a comment on the eventual results (such as the glowy apm keyboard) has a place too along with the (merited) pride/backslapping and nostalgia?
With that said it is deeply impressive to a fan of the game how people who have posted here have shaped what I play now with their past contributions.
Perhaps it could open a wider discussion on whether APM as a measure was a hurtful thing to strategy gaming?
Certainly I had no desire to even try to play SCBW when I heard the APM necessary to even play with basic competence. Im sure a lot of other people who otherwise enjoy strategy games were put off trying RTS by the intimidation factor that measure brought.
SC2 has moved in the direction where you can play the game easily with non superhuman handspeed making APM a much less relevant measure.
Seems a bit strange that Blizzard/accessory makers are jumping on the APM train when it isn't what it used to be in importance to the majority of people playing the current SC compared to the old SC. Obviously its still great for e-sports since any edge is an edge but that seems like a super small market for a keyboard.
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Damn i love all these warnings, no sarcasm here, but a lot of people just do not read the OP unfortunately.
I really like the fact APM was invented here on TL and all the following in the razer marketing to use the term APM as strong slogan.
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I seriously didn't know that some awesome guy (JCA) "invented" APM, HERE on TL!
That is just super... no wait... MEGA-AWESOME!
TL, or more importantly JCA, i'm impressed.
<3
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That old thread about APM has some really cool posts....makes me remember the BW days before SC2 even seemed like it was ever going to happen.
BW FOREVER!!!
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On December 02 2010 12:38 Dubz wrote:
if your going to warn/temp ban literally half the people who post in this topic you should probably just close the thread, as if the OP is gonna get any real concrete answer as to who "invented" apm?
User was temp banned for this post.
I think that has to be the worst post I've ever seen on these forums.
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JCA was the first person that came to my mind.
Thankfully the whole APM craze has died down a little since those early days , occasional gimmick products excepted.People were just spamming useless clicks to get their APM up thinking that made them more like the korean pros.Whatever.
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Congrats for inventing perhaps the most pervasively misguiding element of skill in Starcraft bar cutesy strategies, I guess... I just wish there was some way to measure USEFUL APM, so mid-level players would stop spamming and learn to play.
It is cool to see how important TL.net is, though. Whatever starts here ends up in the entire American Starcraft community at the very least, the most recent example being the 7 Roach Rush (posted on TL.net, created by a program posted on TL.net, if my sources are correct) which has been a little FotM rush for a while now.
+ Show Spoiler +
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I used to follow BW pretty much religiously but since I didn't play it that much I never really read Team Liquid, I had no idea that it was Drone and Nazgul who first came up with APM.
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Amazing thread so far. I <3 bwchart and still use it every time I play broodwar. Amongst TL members we manage to have a pretty awesome group here -- all the streamers, quality posters, translators, moderators, the players, the fans, and even the noobs who don't have any idea how to read a thread, you guys make this a place worth returning to day in and day out.
Cheers TL! 
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On December 02 2010 11:38 Slow Motion wrote:
It's like a reading comprehension question.
The OP's description on the Razer mouse is:
A) The main topic of the thread.
B) A humorous anecdote.
C) An allusion to T.S. Elliot's The Waste Land.
D) An introduction to his main point.
Just pointing out that the easiest/first question in "who wants to be a millionaire" is never D.
Wow, I would never have imagined that TL or somebody on TL would be the inventor of apm charts. That is pretty mind blowing. I wonder how many people actually knew this.
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I think TL.net has been and still is a great learning resource for Starcraft and thus, for every RTS ever made. Personally, I wasn't "among the first" in here, but I've been looking around for over 5 years and it has been an honor. BWChart really made me learn a lot of fast mentality and pushed me to go to my limits more - I wanted to play faster than my friends, even if it just meant numbers at that time. But when game knowledge and decision making eventually meet the available APM, that's when you see some serious gaming.
Good going mates
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Aah, my posting has been so bad lately but the first few pages of this thread make me feel slightly better. =P
I absolutely loved BWChart, I remember when I first had only 40 apm and then checked my APM after every game until I finally hit my record of about 250 apm. I wasn't around back then, but I'm sure that the realization of APM had an effect on quite a few people. I really appreciate what you've done for the community, BWChart was something I used daily back when I played SCBW. I guess it must feel great to have Blizzard include an APM feature in their replays(despite it being wrong) since you've pretty much developed them.
I really wish I could find out my EAPM in SC2 as well, though... I don't think there's a reliable way yet. By the way, I believe that the original concept of EAPM was developed by some russian program called Repinfo, but I really am not sure and apologize if I'm incorrect.
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I'm not sure you can give TL credit for Blizzard implementing APM into SC2.. that seems a little far fetched. APM has become such a common term used in SC that it would've been stupid of them to not add an APM function into the game, but it is definitely fair to say that TL has had a huge impact on the game itself, seeing as it's the largest NA community.
People do seem to take way too much consideration into APM. I know several 2600+ diamonds with APM between 80-110, and it seems a lot of people with high APM only spam. It's not as essential in SC2 as it was in SC1. Also, I know that previous posters have been warned for saying this, but seriously, that razer gear is fucking retarded. Not only is it pricey, but it'd be extremely annoying to have your headset and mouse constantly lighting up if you have "fast" apm..
But yeah, Liquid fighting!!
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
I'm actually very shocked that so many people here can't even comprehend such a short OP.
Anyways i didn't know what the history of APM was and how it was birthed so thanks for the insight! I hope TL and all the other communities continue to have an important role in the development of esports all across the globe.
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lol i love how the red trails off eventually by this page of the thread, or last. lets check ten, but i am pretty sure everyone caught on. haha. still funny nonetheless. well page ten has a quoted temp ban, so yeah. gnite all!
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On December 02 2010 14:32 CuteSmallHydra wrote:
And this was looooong before YouTube - in truth, RWA was pretty much the start of English casting (c'mon, nobody took Korn's WCG casts seriously), and the first time many of us heard Manifesto's manly voice.
omg wow i completely forgot that mani was my fav fav caster
holy crap it's been years, i'm old
also lol @ korn haha
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Funny thread.
Some important lessons to be learned here:
1- Lurk more
2- The Terminology "APM" originated from TL.net
3- JCA is a legend. OP is in fact JCA
4- Tl.net has a lot of strongly opinionated people who are often times wrong. Case in point: This thread and most of the Sc2 strategy section.
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I am new to TL comunity and newer thought that TL and a individual member(JCA) had so huge impact on the BW scene.
Every new player know what apm is and nobody is thinking that it was something needed to be invented...
Nice topik and interesting reading in the links.
Its good to know how it all started.
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Wow I seriously thought APM was just naturally perceived, but to come to this thread and find out that JCA helped create it is amazing.
SC2 is kind of depressing for me. I don't feel the APM rush I get when I played Terran for Brood War. The adrenaline rush of mashing hotkeys, pumping marines constantly from barracks with (NO reactors), microing your marines from defilers/lurkers etc.
Hell I even thought about APM away from Brood War. I would use "APM" to multitask in my daily routines. Like as I'm waiting for my computer to load... I'm folding clothes or something else. Yeah I know I'm taking it too far, but APM was my life back in the day. Thanks JCA and all the others that helped create such a wonderful acronym.
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It is pretty cool finding out that what seems (to someone just joining the scene with SC2) to be just another ubiquitous measure was actually invented specifically, here... nice!
Now, imagine.... five years from now, when SC2 is as old as BW was when this stuff came out.... howzabout this... what if someone comes up with a "combat simulation" model than can read the local terrain and unit composition from each battle in a replay file, apply the same movement/meta-priority/targeting that the game would have applied if everyone was "1-A"'ing, and then measure players based on how much more combat effectiveness they got out of their units by micro'ing them. Sort of 'effective' APM in the truest sense of the word...
What would be interesting about this hypothetical measure is it would be a zero-sum between the two players, as with both micro'ing they're actively reducing the effectiveness of the other.
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On December 02 2010 13:03 Ftrunkz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 12:38 Dubz wrote:
if your going to warn/temp ban literally half the people who post in this topic you should probably just close the thread, as if the OP is gonna get any real concrete answer as to who "invented" apm?
User was temp banned for this post. Oh my god this has to be the best post of the whole thread so far!
On December 02 2010 18:18 Demand2k wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 12:38 Dubz wrote:
if your going to warn/temp ban literally half the people who post in this topic you should probably just close the thread, as if the OP is gonna get any real concrete answer as to who "invented" apm?
User was temp banned for this post. I think that has to be the worst post I've ever seen on these forums.
So, which is it? XD
APM is surely impressive, but if you use bwrepinfo you can see EAPM, which is basically APM with most of the spam and repetitive commands removed. It's ridiculous when you realize how fast professional players are, but then it's even more ridiculous when their EAPM shows how many of their actions are actions of CONSEQUENCE.
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On December 02 2010 12:43 Serejai wrote:
Bookmarking this thread because I'm 99.9% positive that if I come back here in a year the entire first two pages will be nuke icons.
Amazing how much influence something seemingly small can have in the gaming community, huh? Cheers to TL and JCA for paving the way!
DONE
i am also sending this to my non-starcraft-playing friends, the way you send a cool video on youtube or something. EPIC POST !
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On December 02 2010 19:08 Monkies wrote:
I'm not sure you can give TL credit for Blizzard implementing APM into SC2.. that seems a little far fetched. APM has become such a common term used in SC that it would've been stupid of them to not add an APM function into the game, but it is definitely fair to say that TL has had a huge impact on the game itself, seeing as it's the largest NA community.
People do seem to take way too much consideration into APM. I know several 2600+ diamonds with APM between 80-110, and it seems a lot of people with high APM only spam. It's not as essential in SC2 as it was in SC1. Also, I know that previous posters have been warned for saying this, but seriously, that razer gear is fucking retarded. Not only is it pricey, but it'd be extremely annoying to have your headset and mouse constantly lighting up if you have "fast" apm..
But yeah, Liquid fighting!!
Way to miss the point of the red warnings and the mod edit, which is TL (and more specifically JCA) invented APM itself. I love how this thread catches all these posters who don't read at all. No a forum is not a place for you to shit out your opinion.
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Was so good working with you in those days JCA. Pancakes in Paris were good too. Giving you a star now since we didn't have those back then.
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Wow, I'm new to starcraft e-sports, but I never knew that it was someone on TL that invented apm (with his program) to you, and also this thread.
You can live happy, knowing that you changed the world of starcraft 
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We not only gave our baby a name; we invented babies.
Props for the game-changing program... But I just had to say something witty about the terminology used in the title.
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I dont understand all the warnings.
Normally TL warnings makes perfect sense but can the staff please explain why there are this many warnings???
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On December 02 2010 22:16 Laforge wrote:
I dont understand all the warnings.
Normally TL warnings makes perfect sense but can the staff please explain why there are this many warnings???
The explanation for the warnings is pretty much given in the Mod Edit within the OP. People failed to read the OP and proceeded to turn the thread into a cesspool of Razor product reviews.
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I find the amount of red text in this thread hilarious.
And to save myself fromt he same fate: I'm pretty sure TL's invented lots of stuff other than APM. It's done a lot for the gaming community in general as far as I know.
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Jca <3 Excellent program!
I just have one small question. Wasnt the term "APM" also used in the competetive War2 scene? Of course I was all too young back then but I have a very brief memory of reading it somewhere. Anyway, BWchart has been one of the most awesome and influential programs to the brood war scene. Keep it up
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im really surprised people didn't learn their lesson... Maybe threads like this are a good thing lol
on that note Razer lightup tech- jk yo!~
I (just like many others) have used the living crap out of BWchart and never once thought about how the term was coined because it was just so natural and common by that time. Its actually really nice to learn the history behind these sort of things and to know how big something so small has gotten. Also I thank you so much JCA for writing such a staple program for the BW community ^^;
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I think its fantastic when you read all those old comments from when people started debating APM. "Just because he has 300 and i have 100 doesnt mean he is better at all" seemed to be a common argument. Well there is some truth in that, but i dont hink alot of people would argue against the fact that the 300 apm player is more likelly to win today
It has been like that everytime something new was discovered or highlighted. Remember the "gas issue" on the brood war maps? Everyone laughed it off - like as if a 400 gas difference after 4 minutes somehow wouldnt affect balance. Check every single korean pro bw map today, they have all assimilated the research we made of it here and they all use it now.
The same thing will probably happen with the sc2 balance everyone seems to be so hot about right now. Someone will find a sollution and suddenly the balance paradigm will swich
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man those first few pages of warnings/bans just made my morning rofl
but ya it's kinda insane to think that several years ago the concept of APM in gaming didn't even exist, props to TL changing gaming forever =D
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BWChart helped me realize there were large portions of the game I wasn't doing anything. It was also interesting to see how fast I was playing in general and the increased APM over time. It was also funny to see how games would start off with 500 apm before settling down around 100.
JCA is one of the heroes of starcraft.
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I've never seen so many people warned in all my life. I hope I don't get warned.
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![[image loading]](http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2558/bwchart.png)
Badassly, sickoly, ballerly, andothermadeupwordly awesome people.
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To be honest Im really disappointed by the approach of admins.
If Razor issue is completely meaningless, then why is it mentioned at the very beginning of the thread?
I've read and understood the whole topic. However, im not really interested in who invented APM. Does that mean I cannot make a comment about the hardware?
Silly.
Besides, amount of warnings/bans caused a lot of off-topic posts, which spoiled the discussion.
In my humble opinion it's the thread creater who is responsible for all the mess. He could have composed that much better.
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BWChart was really awesome for several reasons. As mentioned, one of the main reasons was to try to find hackers (clicking on things under fog of war) and to see stats but features kept being added. As an SWD engineer I was always impressed with JCA's coding APMs, being self employed he really dedicated himself to the gaming community for quite some time. He had a full featured stats and graphics library he built for source code analyzing tool that allowed him to add features like crazy to BWChart at an extremely fast pace.
I remember when I had a problem in some area of my BW game, I'd search for the matchup and specific players, double-click and watch the replay.
BWSentinel was my favorite though, it allowed to have tourneys without cheats. Soon after BWSentinel, irrc, it was common for launchers to be used that allowed cheat detection. Another major impact.
/bow JCA
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On December 02 2010 22:16 Laforge wrote:
I dont understand all the warnings.
Normally TL warnings makes perfect sense but can the staff please explain why there are this many warnings???
Here's some good advice. If you're not just trolling/looking to get banned, you should read the whole thread before posting stuff like this. Because that's the exact reason why people are being warned and/or banned. They didn't read the thread, didn't check the links and instead started spamming shit about how useless and gay Razer's APM features are.
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iNfeRnaL
Germany1908 Posts
On December 02 2010 23:29 XsebT wrote:Badassly, sickoly, ballerly, andothermadeupwordly awesome people.
/\
QFT!!
Btw: Hilarious ban spree here... xDD
And obviously it's a fake JCA, that's why he's got a star eh...?!
*d'oh*
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Norway28575 Posts
On December 02 2010 11:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
So... this is going straight into the thread hall of fame, right? I've never seen such an epic honeytrap.
On topic: who invented superview? What exactly was the program used for, besides measuring something that hadn't been exactly invented yet?
superview was originally created by some guy from the nohunters community named WilliamWC3. he used to write battlereports and was a cool figure. now, superview originally didn't leave that community and got pretty much no attention at first, it was just a program that let you examine replays from a "programmer" point of view. I think the correct term used was "decompressing" a replay or whatever. using it was very tedious and well, I just downloaded it again to see if I could make sense of it now, but I couldn't.
here's a screenshot of how it worked:
http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/LiquidDrone/superview.jpg (that's only one point of view, you can look at it in binary or examine the raw data and look at it uncompressed etc.. doesn't really make sense to me because I'm not very computer savvy. )
superview was created in like 2002 or something, so well more than a year before it was released on tl.net, and originally it wasn't really used for anything useful. but then dudey (ilnp on these forums) decided to cheat by letting some korean guy play for him in a huge tournament, dudey was very slow and that korean was very fast, and superview was used to compare dudey's speed and clicking-patterns in that tournament with dudey's speed in regular games. I probably spent like 30 minutes comparing 4-5 replays like this, because I had to manually count actions. superview didn't have any "apm"-conversion and it wasn't built for that purpose, but it was one of the possible ways it could be used.
and then it turned out that dudey had about twice or three times his regular amount of clicks in that tournament compared to other replays of him. after that I guess jca read about how superview was used/got hold of it and decided to turn it into something that was actually possible to use. :p
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How can so many people fail at reading comprehension. Less SC for you; more school. :/
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It's cool and all, but I don't see my mouse or my keyboard while I play.
Maybe if you're in a dark room the light might even distract you from the game.
But if I had enough money I would buy the mouse it looks awesome, and I'm sure it handles pretty good.
User was temp banned for this post.
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United States12230 Posts
On December 03 2010 00:50 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2010 11:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
So... this is going straight into the thread hall of fame, right? I've never seen such an epic honeytrap.
On topic: who invented superview? What exactly was the program used for, besides measuring something that hadn't been exactly invented yet? superview was originally created by some guy from the nohunters community named WilliamWC3. he used to write battlereports and was a cool figure. now, superview originally didn't leave that community and got pretty much no attention at first, it was just a program that let you examine replays from a "programmer" point of view. I think the correct term used was "decompressing" a replay or whatever. using it was very tedious and well, I just downloaded it again to see if I could make sense of it now, but I couldn't. here's a screenshot of how it worked: http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/LiquidDrone/superview.jpg (that's only one point of view, you can look at it in binary or examine the raw data and look at it uncompressed etc.. doesn't really make sense to me because I'm not very computer savvy. ) superview was created in like 2002 or something, so well more than a year before it was released on tl.net, and originally it wasn't really used for anything useful. but then dudey (ilnp on these forums) decided to cheat by letting some korean guy play for him in a huge tournament, dudey was very slow and that korean was very fast, and superview was used to compare dudey's speed and clicking-patterns in that tournament with dudey's speed in regular games. I probably spent like 30 minutes comparing 4-5 replays like this, because I had to manually count actions. superview didn't have any "apm"-conversion and it wasn't built for that purpose, but it was one of the possible ways it could be used. and then it turned out that dudey had about twice or three times his regular amount of clicks in that tournament compared to other replays of him. after that I guess jca read about how superview was used/got hold of it and decided to turn it into something that was actually possible to use. :p
Oh hey good memory Eri, remember also how SuperView allowed you to extract the map from a replay file in case you didn't have it?
And lookathis guy HurtnTime over here! All those old schoolers are flooding back into this thread =)
EDIT: And of course I remember meeting you at WCG =p
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Oh I remember that Eri. Of course also Eri used to play under his GFs account and beat up on people in tourneys.
Single starport carrier rush. haha.
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Hey Excal, I just started playing Sc2 recently so I've been trolling tl.net for a few weeks, just not posting. Reading, learning, watching streams. Long time I didnt play RTS.
We met at WCG 2004 in SF. Remember?
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Wow another reason to love this site more than facebook.
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On December 02 2010 23:35 jarek.exe wrote:
To be honest Im really disappointed by the approach of admins.
If Razor issue is completely meaningless, then why is it mentioned at the very beginning of the thread?
I've read and understood the whole topic. However, im not really interested in who invented APM. Does that mean I cannot make a comment about the hardware?
Silly.
Besides, amount of warnings/bans caused a lot of off-topic posts, which spoiled the discussion.
In my humble opinion it's the thread creater who is responsible for all the mess. He could have composed that much better.
What in the fuck seriously? You obviously DID NOT understand the topic and its purpose. JCA created one of the most useful (and used) BW program ever that changed the game, do you realize it?!
I went through first two pages and nerd raged. How can be the SC2 newcomers THAT stupid? It blows my mind that someone reads just first sentence and completely ignores the rest of the post. Oh, TL
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Norway28575 Posts
On December 03 2010 01:08 HurtnTime wrote:
Hey Excal, I just started playing Sc2 recently so I've been trolling tl.net for a few weeks, just not posting. Reading, learning, watching streams. Long time I didnt play RTS.
We met at WCG 2004 in SF. Remember?
I remember you! you bought me and some other fellows chinese food! :D
2004 was a blast
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Props to JCA for not filing a lawsuit against Blizzard/Razer for any IP rights concerning APM.
Props to JCA for this whole revolutionary concept :D
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Shouldn't this be a blog? I dont get the OP. Its just a statement who invented APM. What is there to discuss? Would be less warnings if it was a blog imo
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On December 03 2010 01:01 Ksyper wrote:
It's cool and all, but I don't see my mouse or my keyboard while I play.
Maybe if you're in a dark room the light might even distract you from the game.
But if I had enough money I would buy the mouse it looks awesome, and I'm sure it handles pretty good.
Of course, right after my post we get this. :/
Why?
JCA much <3 for your contributions.
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Wow that is huge, it pretty much changed how some parts of pc based esports are viewed and ultimately the products to come out and measure it.
Yay TL.
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Wow reading the first 5 pages of this thread has basically summarized how I feel about the degradation of the SC2 community on TL. A complete lack of comprehension and respect to the people who have done great things for the game, and a general "know it all attitude" that is currently ruining the forum. I applaud the moderators actions, and I really wish that things were even more strict around here. It's a shame that it has to be this way, but I guess this is what happens with the overwhelming influx of new users.
Thanks JCA for filling me in on an awesome fact!
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APM was around in 2001-2002. It was definitely even around in 1999/2000, although perhaps not by that name. It's a natural metric for how fast a player is playing and the concept even existed in the Age of Empires community. It wasn't given an explicit name until the SC / SC:BW programs that called it that. People also didn't think of using replays or real time programs to check it. It was definitely a more abstract concept. On December 03 2010 01:34 mcneebs wrote:
Wow reading the first 5 pages of this thread has basically summarized how I feel about the degradation of the SC2 community on TL. A complete lack of comprehension and respect to the people who have done great things for the game, and a general "know it all attitude" that is currently ruining the forum. I applaud the moderators actions, and I really wish that things were even more strict around here. It's a shame that it has to be this way, but I guess this is what happens with the overwhelming influx of new users.
Thanks JCA for filling me in on an awesome fact!
The title of this thread was different before and it was completely focused on the keyboard. There was no way at all to know it was about "the invention of APM" except for two trailing sentences at the end. The title was literally about the keyboard, and most of the original post was about it as well with a minor fill-in of where APM came from at the end.
It was later edited to not appear this way because a moderator didn't interpret it as the rest of the community did. After the title change and warnings/bans people started posting about the new topic. I assume JCA meant to make it about the new topic instead of the keyboard, but he didn't originally make it that way.
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Yeah it was great meeting you Eri and so many others. Were you there when day9 put a hot pepper in his mouth and he shriveled up? Hillarious.
I have a picture somewhere of that.
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New here, can't chime in on the whole nostalgia thing... Kind of makes me jealous But good on you TL! Having a drink in your name right now
You guys are a truly amazing community, hopefully one day I can look back on these days, and how much of a noob I am, and smile/laugh... I used BWchart to try to get better at BW back when I would play with my brother, and he would smoke me Every Single Game... And then there was that program that would overlay on the screen your current APM? I have no idea what program was but I used to swear by it haha. Took my laptop to school and played some bw against bots and had that rocking up near 100 (lol) and people thought I was gosu (not that I knew that term existed, but looking back it fits)...
I never knew it was all thanks to you guys and this amazing community
Thank you all so much, and I hope, one day, I can be a part of it!
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this thread is amazing
i love seeing threads from 2003, its like a museum o.o
never seen you post before jca, nice to meet you
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Look at these two sexy beasts in 2004.
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/cMmTg.jpg)
Oh man that is a spicey meatball!
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/cORh9.jpg)
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Norway28575 Posts
and victors expression has not changed since
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It's funny because it's true too.
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Wow I remember being an absolute noob in bw and hearing about bwchart and downloading it to check my awesome 60APM. Little did I know that later on I would become more involved in the starcraft community once starcraft 2 came out and find that it was actually someone on TL that "invented" APM and bw chart. I kind of just always assumed that APM was something that was kind of always looked at. I thought that maybe it was measured in other RTS games before starcraft.
In other news, this thread has also provided me many laughs. I think it's especially funny when people say, "Oh I don't want to be banned like everyone else....... so about those Razer products...."
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United States7481 Posts
hahahha that's the best picture of Sean i've ever seen!
it really is cool how a community term can spread to be so ubiquitous. you are a true baller, jca.
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no i invented apm
User was temp banned for this post.
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Canada9720 Posts
LOL this thread is awesome. cheers jca!
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Bon matin jca! Merci pour tous!
I wasn't on TL when this whole newfangled APM thing came about, but my roomate slapped me when I had no idea who you were. So I read the thread you linked to, and wanted to write here and say thanks. It's entirely possible that had you not (with the collaboration of many others I'm sure) invented the culminate measuring stick that is APM, esports wouldnt be what it is today. People love an easy compact way to compare themselves. And while iCCup ranks are good, a nice clean number is better, and you delivered. Cheers man! :D
P.S. What happened to the TL I knew where people read the OP. Before posting? This isn't about razer, or APM implementation, it's about recognizing the mainstream application of something invented by our community. Read people. Please.
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I remember when JCA's APM tool first was released. I was super enthousiastic about it and sent my then-offline BW buddy at least 10 consecutive ICQ messages
No one had more than 180 apm back then..
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Wow, I remember when I learned of bwchart. I was still a total scrub, always playing against my friend who would always rush me pvz but I wouldn't give up and improve my timing and apm. I was so happy every time my APM went up by 10 or my build became faster by 1 or 2 seconds.
Always assumed the koreans came up with it. They were just so far ahead of everyone.
I wish we'd have bwchart for sc2 as well. Sorting maps and nicknames into groups was so useful. Sc2gears isn't there yet unfortunately.
Thanks so much for reminding me of the great times as a beginner of competetive starcraft, jca, and everyone else for making this such a hilarious thread. Lol. 
e: spelling woo
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Awesome thread, awesome OP, awesome repliers, awesome admins.
We should have on of these every month, a somewhat confusing (but still completely understandable) OP that leads the lazy crowd astray. Would be a nice way to clean out some of the illiterates.
bwcharts was so big, I did not play much BW but I still came into contact with the amazing program. Mad props!
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On December 03 2010 01:55 Liquid`Drone wrote:
and victors expression has not changed since
lol this for sure
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Wow I remember using bwchart in 2005 and amazingly the site hasnt changed a bit ! http://www.bwchart.com/
Even the yoda is still there :D
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On December 03 2010 02:44 silencesc wrote:
Bon matin jca! Merci pour tous!
I wasn't on TL when this whole newfangled APM thing came about, but my roomate slapped me when I had no idea who you were. So I read the thread you linked to, and wanted to write here and say thanks. It's entirely possible that had you not (with the collaboration of many others I'm sure) invented the culminate measuring stick that is APM, esports wouldnt be what it is today. People love an easy compact way to compare themselves. And while iCCup ranks are good, a nice clean number is better, and you delivered. Cheers man! :D
It's funny, I never played BW "back in the day" other than with a few people over LAN as my family didn't have a decent internet connection until like 2005 or so, and even then my RTS of choice became Warcraft III.
When I got back into Brood War a year or so ago, I was amazed by how much the community as a whole (TL and others) have shaped the game. Multiplayer maps, custom maps, plugins, tools, major build orders, game casting, etc.etc. all developed by the community. Starcraft must be one of the only games out there where the players and community had a major part in defining how it was played. (maybe with the exception of Warcraft 2) It's strange now to think there was a time that this game was once played on maps like Wheel of War with such builds as proxy hatcheries.
The extremely closed nature of Starcraft 2; the Blizzard Map pool, the broken custom game system, the illegality of third party servers like ICCup. I worry that these things threaten what really made BW stay so popular for so long.
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MURICA15980 Posts
On December 03 2010 01:26 rozina wrote:Shouldn't this be a blog? I dont get the OP. Its just a statement who invented APM. What is there to discuss? Would be less warnings if it was a blog imo
When you've invented something like APM with the help of the TL community, you can have your own thread dedicated to its invention 7 years later, too.
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May i ask what the fuck the point of this post was? this kind of stuff goes in the history section or the wiki if there is one, as what is written is in no way an arguable subject.
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The post was a friendly hi and history lesson. But like Klogon said, when you invent a quantification of a game state, you're allowed some leeway.
This thread is still 9000 times better than the vast majority of SC2 threads even with all the bans present here.
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On December 03 2010 04:47 njAl wrote:
May i ask what the fuck the point of this post was? this kind of stuff goes in the history section or the wiki if there is one, as what is written is in no way an arguable subject.
Why does every thread have to be a debate about something? There are plenty of threads that have a purpose besides presenting a controversial topic. It seems that the moderators disagree with you on the validity of this topic as well. Maybe you should take it up with them by using the website feedback function.
To answer your question, this thread happens to be about celebrating the contributions that jca and TL have made to the wider starcraft community.site
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On December 03 2010 04:26 TheToast wrote:
The extremely closed nature of Starcraft 2; the Blizzard Map pool, the broken custom game system, the illegality of third party servers like ICCup. I worry that these things threaten what really made BW stay so popular for so long.
This has been one of the concerns about SC2 since before it came out.
Blizzard, whether it is unintentional or not, seems to be sacrificing the amount of constructive input the gaming community can provide in order to secure more profits by controlling every aspect of their game and (currently) flawed Bnet 2.0 system. This in itself is already pretty heinous, then you realize most of their 'achievements' are actually just cannibalizations of free contributions from the community (such as BWChart).
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Man. I'm honored to be in the same thread as jca =) I remember the first versions of the program and it was soooo baller. I must have checked like 200 replays in the first few days lol.
APM was has always been missunderstood by many who thinks high == good. My thoughts go to TLO in the Friendsday Wednesday who said that he's much more impressed with someone with a low apm.
The truth is of course that apm can tell a story if you have other facts but alone it's useless data that needs to be put into context=)
The many warnings made me laugh
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always good to see an old school poster return and highlight the immense contributions TL has made to the scene.
i think it would be a good idea if the OP in combination with the following post:
On December 02 2010 11:38 Slow Motion wrote:
It's like a reading comprehension question.
The OP's description on the Razer mouse is:
A) The main topic of the thread.
B) A humorous anecdote.
C) An allusion to T.S. Elliot's The Waste Land.
D) An introduction to his main point.
as part of new user registration procedure ~~
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You know aside from the funny warning going on and the "lol this is stupid" posts, this isnt really a "bad" tool.
You cant actually monitor your APM in-game so this would give some players at the top a slight advantage.
I can see it working great for practice.
As for the "i could make this for $5". Well, aside from the mouse costing money to make, triggering lights to in-game actions is not easy.
There's alot of scripting and programming required to do that. Programmers dont program stuff for free.
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Wow, I had no idea about this. I thought it was just something that was kind of always around. Very impressive that someone actually started something that we all know and take for granted in a sense. Great job OP.
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pretty funny how it was called back then "act./min" also funny that ppl braged about their average 150ish apm which is today considered as slow
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On December 03 2010 09:09 Cryosin wrote:
You know aside from the funny warning going on and the "lol this is stupid" posts, this isnt really a "bad" tool.
You cant actually monitor your APM in-game so this would give some players at the top a slight advantage.
I can see it working great for practice.
As for the "i could make this for $5". Well, aside from the mouse costing money to make, triggering lights to in-game actions is not easy.
There's alot of scripting and programming required to do that. Programmers dont program stuff for free.
you read the warning, but still failed to comprehend why people were being warned, (banned later in the thread) did you actually read the OP and mod edit. If Jibba is still checking expect your ban soon.
on topic: It is amazing how far the term APM has come, and how far peoples APM has come look back at the old threads on APM and see people talking about 150 being crazy fast (I still wish i had 150) crazy. The history lesson from this thread was great, thanks jca
jca2 lowest post count account with a star? (well deserved of course)
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Jca, how does it feel to know you invented a very important ''aspect'' of gaming? =)
Really awesome, i am honoured to be in the same thread ^.^
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I think we take for granted just how malleable the eSport scene is to this day, how much influence we still are able to exert over it, and how much of that is thanks to Blizzard's and the Korean pro-scene's openness and willingness to accept good things no matter where they came from, be they from a paid Blizzard developer or some guy in some basement. (not pointing any fingers at JCA specifically here. )
I know I do. It's a very unique relationship between spectators and sport, and it's a great, great thing that things like this can come from it. And as much as I might disagree with Blizzard's desire to have the pro tournaments come up with their own map pool, the fact that they're still putting so much faith in the hands of others is almost unbelievable.
This victory does not belong to one fan, but to all. Let us together build this industry that we may enjoy in times of boredom.
On December 02 2010 11:38 Slow Motion wrote:
It's like a reading comprehension question.
The OP's description on the Razer mouse is:
A) The main topic of the thread.
B) A humorous anecdote.
C) An allusion to T.S. Elliot's The Waste Land.
D) An introduction to his main point.
Hahaha, I nominate this for Most Valuable Post of an already epic thread.
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Australia8532 Posts
Someone still got banned on page THIRTEEN of this thread? - that is hilarious.
Well up TL for being a beacon of light for esports - i didn't know APM was invented here; that's pretty cool.
Any other kickass contributions that i don't know about?
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I wasn't a TLer at the time, but I remember hearing about APM when I was like... 13? 14? I didn't really understand the game then, so I just thought it was those elitist jerks in Clan x17 making up some gibberish.
Good job to TL for their contribution to E-sports.
Also... I just read that old school BW APM's were around 200-220? I'm guessing that once people found out that there was a way to measure APM is when it became popular to spam your APM up.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Cheers to TL I feel like i missed out missing a lot of great people, all you BW veterans making great contributions to e-sports!
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LOL the first set of posts trashing on the razer stuff is fucking hilarious!
But man, I remember when I was first getting back into BW a few years ago, I had NO idea what APM was at all. It just confused the hell out of me. Then I remember assuming mine was close to 200 before I started analyzing my reps with BW-Chart, only to later find out I was playing at barely 100 max. At my peak, I was pulling around 200, though :o
I have no idea what my APM is in SC2, though. Is there a way to check your overall APM in a rep without actually playing it?
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I think the keyword that many readers missed in the thread was "nostalgie". But yes! I remember years ago during my broodwar days that a lot of handy add ons were provided by Teamliquid! Such as advloader, bwchart, and a bunch of other stuff (can't quite remember specifically) but all those add ons were quite useful in their own way TL community has really worked hard to make gaming better and Blizzard is finally putting in their own two cents as well.
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Mmh I have to say I am not really a fan of APM and the whole concept behind it. But I nonetheless like that one can actually see it in replays now. I used BW:Chart back in the days but it didnt improve my play much as I think just alot of practice can help;).
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Dam. i still remember when my friends started saying APM and how they all kept trying to hit 300 APM. That was like 6-7 years ago and i was still in middle school. that was when i first touched sc1 and heard of boxer and yellow and boxer's famous scv rush. if theres ever a timeline of SC events and history, you should be on their as the man who discovered APM. who knew that it would be one of the things that people look at when they compare their favorite players.
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Props Jca! Still got BWCHART on my comp!
On December 03 2010 09:26 jamesr12 wrote:
jca2 lowest post count account with a star? (well deserved of course)
I believe Day9s/Tasteless' mom has less posts.
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meh hit quote instead of edit heh, delete plz.
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On December 07 2010 16:47 PH wrote:
LOL the first set of posts trashing on the razer stuff is fucking hilarious!
But man, I remember when I was first getting back into BW a few years ago, I had NO idea what APM was at all. It just confused the hell out of me. Then I remember assuming mine was close to 200 before I started analyzing my reps with BW-Chart, only to later find out I was playing at barely 100 max. At my peak, I was pulling around 200, though :o
I have no idea what my APM is in SC2, though. Is there a way to check your overall APM in a rep without actually playing it?
Yes, there is: search the forum for sc2gears. Really nice tool, you can even see how your APM improves over time. I was around 40 when sc2 got released (didn't play beta nor did i play SC:BW the last 8-9 years) and sc2gears shows that my APM increased gradually to 90. It's really good to see if you are improving or not.
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Heh, I remember the first time I checked my apm, it was like 60. Last time I played BW it was about 150-160. Cheers to JCA and also to many other programmers who made other useful tools like PP and of course Iccup launcher:D
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Lol at people not reading further than the first link!..
Cheers JCA for your awesome program that is BWChart.
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Finally it is here. Its the PURGE!!!!
YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
On all seriousness, I didn't know APM was from foreign community and is amazed. I guess thanks is in order for JCA and rest of BWChart creators since he has coined an valuable term that contributed to the e-sports.
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Bahaha at all the people bashing on razer products in this thread, shows the level of reading comprehension on these forums. Yet they try to have serious discussions regarding balance :D
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This is awesome, we all love to see our APM on the keyboard :D
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On December 07 2010 18:41 yowza wrote:
Bahaha at all the people bashing on razer products in this thread, shows the level of reading comprehension on these forums. Yet they try to have serious discussions regarding balance :D
On December 07 2010 18:47 Moxi wrote:
This is awesome, we all love to see our APM on the keyboard :D
I`m not even sure you guys are sarcastic or not, but as the red madness has already gone to page 13...
But cheers JCA BWchart is awesome, all the fun to check replays in lan to rub it in who has it bigger =] all thanks to you
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Empire Earth released in 2001 had the 'clicks per minute' feature inbuilt in the game. APM i would invisage is an evolution of thise ingame feature.
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On December 07 2010 18:47 Moxi wrote:
This is awesome, we all love to see our APM on the keyboard :D
plz take that back real quick...
anyways I'm really surprised by jca here. I always thought APM was born since the beginning of RTS.
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On December 02 2010 18:30 Acritter wrote:Congrats for inventing perhaps the most pervasively misguiding element of skill in Starcraft bar cutesy strategies, I guess... I just wish there was some way to measure USEFUL APM, so mid-level players would stop spamming and learn to play.It is cool to see how important TL.net is, though. Whatever starts here ends up in the entire American Starcraft community at the very least, the most recent example being the 7 Roach Rush (posted on TL.net, created by a program posted on TL.net, if my sources are correct) which has been a little FotM rush for a while now. + Show Spoiler +
Lol. You ever heard of EAPM? Well, after looking at your join date... probably not.
I wasn't on TL at the time bwchart was made but I remember jca for sometime, and it was for something big, and now I know what it was :D. Good job jca, you shaped the whole community, and you really should have put a copyright on APM lol!
On December 02 2010 19:06 Shikyo wrote:
Aah, my posting has been so bad lately but the first few pages of this thread make me feel slightly better. =P
I absolutely loved BWChart, I remember when I first had only 40 apm and then checked my APM after every game until I finally hit my record of about 250 apm. I wasn't around back then, but I'm sure that the realization of APM had an effect on quite a few people. I really appreciate what you've done for the community, BWChart was something I used daily back when I played SCBW. I guess it must feel great to have Blizzard include an APM feature in their replays(despite it being wrong) since you've pretty much developed them.
I really wish I could find out my EAPM in SC2 as well, though... I don't think there's a reliable way yet. By the way, I believe that the original concept of EAPM was developed by some russian program called Repinfo, but I really am not sure and apologize if I'm incorrect.
bwrepinfo
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Day 9
User was warned for this post
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wow, serious props to you man, always kinda knew apm was a spawn of TL but didnt know that we had its creator right here
btw, ive always wondered, does the OSL or MSL use your program as well?
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Wow. I am really glad the acronym changed to apm instead of act/min. lol
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Does this keep getting bumped cause everyone loves the red print on the front page?
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Can people please just read the thread properly, no one cares about your opinion on the keyboard.
I want to kno, where did it come from??? OP please update with valuable posts!
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 31 2010 07:04 MrShank wrote:
Can people please just read the thread properly, no one cares about your opinion on the keyboard.
I want to kno, where did it come from??? OP please update with valuable posts!
Wow, learn to read the first post yourself please.
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Wow, this guy "invented" apm?
Must have been a lot of work to write a program measuring the apm back in bw. Kudos.
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i wouldnt say anybody invented apm. especially SC:BW. its like saying, who invented walking? its something that the earliest man did, but was only given a name when it was thought about. same with strategy games and APM.
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I actually ended up reading the threads linked in the OP and had a fun APM history lesson. Boxer replays being analyzed for the first time with 131 APM must have been awesome at the time. It's funny how far players have come. Also funny how a quick warning from an Admin can lead to such sweet reads.
Haha so many warnings, c'mon people read the post properly
I did not know that the term APM originated here, thanks. Also thanks, did not realize the OP had links xD
But wow, Boxer had only 131 APM? I've only played BW competitively for like 50 hours max, including observing... and I have 180 APM as Zerg. (May be that's why, since he's Terran).
Well anyways the level he played at with 131 APM, that's pretty amazing
@OP
Agreed, cheers for TL community! =D
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I don't understand why people can't discuss the Razer thingy here, its part of the op, you guys are too uptight imo
And Yeah Yoshi you wouldn't believe it but BW was about strategy much more than mechanics before 1.08 when replay function was implemented, strategies got standardized and mechanics became equally or even more important Grrrr, or Garimto were notorious 120-160 apm guys that owned hard without clicking like madmen
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that's actually pretty awesome i'd say. since i only came in from SC2, and my experience with BW is pretty much 99% games that were played in the last 3 years at proleague and such, i had no idea that APM was not actually always a part of starcraft.
i had assumed all of this time, with how much of a fuss people make over it, that it was always something important to some extent within the game. would've never learned about your contribution without this thread. awesome <3
and even more awesome is how much of an amazing ban trap this thread has become. this thead has improved TL in so many ways, hahaha
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On December 31 2010 07:25 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +I actually ended up reading the threads linked in the OP and had a fun APM history lesson. Boxer replays being analyzed for the first time with 131 APM must have been awesome at the time. It's funny how far players have come. Also funny how a quick warning from an Admin can lead to such sweet reads. Haha so many warnings, c'mon people read the post properly I did not know that the term APM originated here, thanks. Also thanks, did not realize the OP had links xD But wow, Boxer had only 131 APM? I've only played BW competitively for like 50 hours max, including observing... and I have 180 APM as Zerg. (May be that's why, since he's Terran). Well anyways the level he played at with 131 APM, that's pretty amazing @OP Agreed, cheers for TL community! =D
Actually that's really surprisingly cause Terran bio really should be as high as Z especially at lower level, can't believe it.
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ya know back when i played brood war, bw charts really made things much easier for me and helped me alot. also loved the anti hack feature that helped open my eyes to how many hackers were on b net and ultimately got me to start playing iccup. and its only then on the iccup ladder that i started getting REALLY interested in bw and also only then did i start actually getting good.
cheers to JCA and to TL and its mods!!!!! thank you for all the hard work and dedication.
ps what happend to your old account jc did you forget the nick and pass???
On December 02 2010 18:34 integral wrote:Amazing thread so far. I <3 bwchart and still use it every time I play broodwar. Amongst TL members we manage to have a pretty awesome group here -- all the streamers, quality posters, translators, moderators, the players, the fans, and even the noobs who don't have any idea how to read a thread, you guys make this a place worth returning to day in and day out. Cheers TL!
this post made me laugh =D.
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On December 02 2010 22:16 Laforge wrote:
I dont understand all the warnings.
Normally TL warnings makes perfect sense but can the staff please explain why there are this many warnings???
because people are just blabbin there ass hat off and not reading the OP. you obviously didnt read it either or even the subsuqent pages or else the red text would prolly make sense. perfect sense actually.
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About boxer's apm (mentioned in some posts earlier)...
![[image loading]](http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/1470/boxerapm.png)
...Stop calling out bullshit.
131 my ass.
I can't speak for when replays and the term "apm" didn't excist, but I think it's reasonable to imagine it's higher than 131.
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It's because of threads like these TL.net is awesome, haha.
Well done
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On December 31 2010 13:37 XsebT wrote:
About boxer's apm (mentioned in some posts earlier)...
...Stop calling out bullshit.
131 my ass.
I can't speak for when replays and the term "apm" didn't excist, but I think it's reasonable to imagine it's higher than 131.
In the original APM thread, there were people posting different APMs, and they said top players had below 200.
Edit: The 131 APM is mentioned here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=62746
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On December 31 2010 13:37 XsebT wrote:About boxer's apm (mentioned in some posts earlier)... ...Stop calling out bullshit. 131 my ass. I can't speak for when replays and the term "apm" didn't excist, but I think it's reasonable to imagine it's higher than 131.
And here I was all proud with my 99 APM's What I would give to be able to click like that...
Great thread OP, that's some cool stuff
Off-topic: is that Liquid-Nazgul? O.o
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wow that's really cool, i never knew the idea behind apm originated on TL. makes you wonder about the other sc related things we all just think of as normal, like casting. what was the first game to ever be commentated?
EDIT: typo
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Osaka27128 Posts
On December 31 2010 18:09 freeto wrote:
wow that's really cool, i never knew the idea behind apm originated on TL. makes you wonder about the other sc related things we all just think of as normal, like casting. what was the first game to ever be commentated?
EDIT: typo
Another tool jca made was replays with audio. It wasn't the first commentating, as some people did it with audio files synced with replays, but his program fused an ogg audio file and the replay together. It was really cool. Tiamat was one of the first rwa makers.
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On December 02 2010 07:36 eLiE wrote:lol, i like the little evolution on that one page. actions/minute, actions per minute, apm's to....APM! Kind of cool little history fact if it's indeed where APM was born. EDIT: Reading other posts, JCA, a TL member, was the inventor. Thank you, sir, I raise my glass with the others You made me self-conscious about how fast I spam stuff . Man, this place is a minefield.....
Yeah that was pretty interesting, seeing it go through all the names until it finally turned to APM.
JCA- the person that launched a thousand bans. and BWchart.
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HAhaHAH the warnings on the first page is hilarious!! :D
U sure that's the first occurance of APM? seems fairly common since bwchar's out they do already record actions/minute
so there's mph, rpm, ect ect, apm is bound to happen isn't it? It might be possible it originated independently across the web.
We need a crawler to find the oldest mention of APM in the entire internet! OO
edit: but Ah you did bwchart, so then I think you DO have the best handle on the subject. Okay, I think you're right.
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On December 31 2010 18:14 Manifesto7 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 31 2010 18:09 freeto wrote:
wow that's really cool, i never knew the idea behind apm originated on TL. makes you wonder about the other sc related things we all just think of as normal, like casting. what was the first game to ever be commentated?
EDIT: typo Another tool jca made was replays with audio. It wasn't the first commentating, as some people did it with audio files synced with replays, but his program fused an ogg audio file and the replay together. It was really cool. Tiamat was one of the first rwa makers.
I watched the games you commentated!! I forgot which games they were though...
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I wonder whether jca may claim some money from RAZER for using his invention -
probably not :D
I'm a law student and that was the first thing coming into my mind reading this ancient posts. :D
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I never realized that apm came from team liquid. This is very cool.
btw the first two pages of this thread are awesome, it is like a wall of red.
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People baffle me. First, I've never been big into BW. I've also never heard of JCA, since I wasn't big into BW at the time, only laddering occasionally for fun... and losing was never that fun, I sucked.
Still, I read the well written post in about 30 seconds and saw the mod's edit before I saw the first three pages of bans... it wasn't very difficult. Another 30 seconds after that, I googled "Starcraft JCA" and found a whole bunch of tools and crap he worked on. It wasn't very difficult to see that this wasn't a razer ad, or a question, it was a statement about TL's and JCA's impact on the starcraft community... yet 15 pages later, people still don't get it.
JCA, even though I wasn't huge into BW and I never used any of your tools, a 30 seconds search revealed to me you've done so much for the community as a whole, and have helped shape the starcraft 2 community today that I so much enjoy. Thanks to you and the rest of the TL community, and hopefully we at TL can continue to shape the future of starcraft. Cheers.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/constructive.png)
