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On November 26 2010 07:13 Metalwing wrote:I just fail at counting the number of  LowestSkillS-ClassPlayerPrime wannabees in this thread. This is the protoss equivalent of 6 pooling next 100 people who comes across you on the ladder. It helps nothing except mastering on 4 warpgate build.
Your hate is unwarranted.
It gets you to think about the following
-Warp gate cooldown
-Keeping your supply in check and not supply blocking your next warp in
-Micro (*)
-Decision making (*)
Not every game needs to be 20+ minutes long. (And the opposite is true as well, not every game should end before the 10 minute mark. However, people will do what works, and clearly, 4-gate sill works as people still have trouble holding it off.)
*Note, micro, and decision making, does matter to some extent. Deciding what to attack to force your opponent to come to YOU, or chasing down your opponent and not running into a bad situation (forcefielding half your army behind a ramp) is crucial when facing higher level opponents.
IF you have little trouble holding 4-gates, then consider anyone that does it free wins. Otherwise, consider it a lesson in holding off early pressure and scouting your damn opponent. It isn't hard to spot, it isn't too hard to stop unless you are a WORSE PLAYER than the person 4-gating you.
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On November 26 2010 07:22 Patriot.dlk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2010 07:13 Metalwing wrote:I just fail at counting the number of LowestSkillS-ClassPlayerPrime wannabees in this thread. This is the protoss equivalent of 6 pooling next 100 people who comes across you on the ladder. It helps nothing except mastering on 4 warpgate build. Why would you post this? A lot of good good posts defended this challenge with structured arguments that you just ignored. As many others have said it's a great way to practice. You will use gateway units in combat over and over while you have to macro out new ones... Useful skill to have indeed.
He's probably butthurt because he gets owned by 4gates on ladder all the time 
seems like a fun little thing to do, though 100games might be a bit extreme imho
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I actually do look back at games and say wow i was a dick that game. i shouldnt be stoving noobs on bnet east or aiyumi builds vs D level iccup zergs. not kool entertaining not kool.
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On November 25 2010 16:42 haegN wrote:No, mvp, could you provide replay/VOD? 
I dont feel like finding the link, but its one of the day 9 funday monday videos where some counters a walled in 4 gate push with no queens and PURE 1/1 roaches, its badass. he rick rolled the guy with some good micro
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On November 26 2010 08:36 mvpAKAenvyME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 16:42 haegN wrote:No, mvp, could you provide replay/VOD? I dont feel like finding the link, but its one of the day 9 funday monday videos where some counters a walled in 4 gate push with no queens and PURE 1/1 roaches, its badass. he rick rolled the guy with some good micro
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4149200/
It's the first game, so about 1-2 minutes in if you really want to skip the intro
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So I guess I should seven pool everygame? I mean like you said if i win I must have out played them? No sir. This is weak play that normaly takes out newer players and good players that take make hat one misstake and is used for a easy win (99.9 percent of the time).
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Here are my first twenty 4 gates.
http://www.mediafire.com/?qt7bf7eqm0i39dm
I think I'm around 50/50 doing it, but noticeable improvements in control, and a much better understanding of unit composition early game.
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I don't have SC2, but if I did I would probably do this. I think this is actually important for development in styles. There have always been styles that's just own you. Back in the day on PGtour(or early iCCup) I(and pretty much every protoss) owned every zerg with fast expand into zealot with legspeed. Many people were pissed off by this, but then a pro(don't remember who now) came up with this fast muta style that just owned the zealots(obviously). Because of this, protoss players had to do something new, which was fast corsair into 2gate reaver(or something like that). My point is: there will always be hard strategies, and we just have to adapt and learn. As I said, I don't have SC2 myself, and don't know much about it, but if more protoss players do this on ladder zergs and terrans will be able to find a way around it, eventually
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I'm a Zerg that encountered my first 4gate an hour ago. I'm still bronze, but I've been fighting silvers or golds, and this guy was gold. I won after a rough transition out of 7 roach rush. I think he may have left me alone too long after he found out I had spines and a small roach army waiting for him. When he encountered me at my base, he might have been able to win regardless.
Here's the replay. I know I haven't got the best sense of mechanics yet, but I'm certainly optimistic. Still, I'm thinking his was a not so well done 4-gate.
+ Show Spoiler +Yeah, I'm basically 7 roach rushing my games until I level out somewhere. :3c
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I don't know why most people still think protoss is alone with the "highly effective yet easy to pull off" build. When off racing as terran in custom games despite not knowing a clear build order I can beat protoss at 1700 rating (a bit above my level) by only knowing that 2 reactor-ed raxxes with a scouting factory and 2 tech lab-ed starports will net me wins against protosses much much much better than me.
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Next big challenge = the 100 6-8 pool challange for zerg?
I think the argument to justify that one would be saying that six pooling requires very superior micro, or something like that.
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On November 26 2010 07:35 FliedLice wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2010 07:22 Patriot.dlk wrote:On November 26 2010 07:13 Metalwing wrote:I just fail at counting the number of LowestSkillS-ClassPlayerPrime wannabees in this thread. This is the protoss equivalent of 6 pooling next 100 people who comes across you on the ladder. It helps nothing except mastering on 4 warpgate build. Why would you post this? A lot of good good posts defended this challenge with structured arguments that you just ignored. As many others have said it's a great way to practice. You will use gateway units in combat over and over while you have to macro out new ones... Useful skill to have indeed. He's probably butthurt because he gets owned by 4gates on ladder all the time seems like a fun little thing to do, though 100games might be a bit extreme imho
That's kinda the point of holding a contest
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On November 25 2010 17:13 Salivanth wrote:Name/ID: Salivanth.254 Division: Silver Points before "Hundred 4Gate Challenge": 1201 (557 bonus pool) Final score: Unknown Replay pack: Probably not for a couple of months if I stick with this, I don't play much. This is a good challenge for me: Often I'll lose a game because I have no idea what build I'm gonna do when I enter the game and scramble for an idea. I've actually been like "Okay, so I might FE, oh, I just threw down a Gateway, guess I'll go robo this game", so this will allow me to focus. 100 straight games of 4-Gate should allow me to learn that build, then keep it in my toolbox, forever, even if I 4-gate 6 times a year afterwards. Plus, once we've done that we'll move on to the 100 Slightly-More-Macro-Based-Build Challenge (I'm thinking some sort of Robo build) P.S: In the build I use, I cut probes at 30, and get 3 waves of units on top of my initial gateway units, attacking with 7 Zealots, 6 Stalkers, and 2 Sentries (60 food, so fairly late).
I don't think this is the way to go. Attack after second wave of units, and cut probes at around 20 and you'll get out of silver in no time.
Why not copy superior players instead of trying to create your own build? Not to be elitist or anything like that, but I think you should start creating your own builds when you get a little better at the game
GL in the challenge
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Name/ID: Strider.264
Division: Diamond
Points before "Hundred 4Gate Challenge": 1140 (700 Bonus pool)
Final score: TBA
Reserved for my results
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Fuck this challenge. I am sick unto death of facing the endless stream of dicks who can do nothing but 4-gate. And now this! Encouraging them! It doesn't matter that it's easy to brush off, it's just so fucking boring to see it time and time again, and as a Protoss player I feel embarrassed/cheapened/dirty. I think I'll start my own personal challenge to BM every dick who 4-gates me, and in a unique and startling way with each incarnation.
I hope you all fail
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On November 26 2010 07:23 tetramaster wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2010 07:13 Metalwing wrote:I just fail at counting the number of LowestSkillS-ClassPlayerPrime wannabees in this thread. This is the protoss equivalent of 6 pooling next 100 people who comes across you on the ladder. It helps nothing except mastering on 4 warpgate build. Your hate is unwarranted. It gets you to think about the following -Warp gate cooldown -Keeping your supply in check and not supply blocking your next warp in -Micro (*) -Decision making (*) Not every game needs to be 20+ minutes long. (And the opposite is true as well, not every game should end before the 10 minute mark. However, people will do what works, and clearly, 4-gate sill works as people still have trouble holding it off.) *Note, micro, and decision making, does matter to some extent. Deciding what to attack to force your opponent to come to YOU, or chasing down your opponent and not running into a bad situation (forcefielding half your army behind a ramp) is crucial when facing higher level opponents. IF you have little trouble holding 4-gates, then consider anyone that does it free wins. Otherwise, consider it a lesson in holding off early pressure and scouting your damn opponent. It isn't hard to spot, it isn't too hard to stop unless you are a WORSE PLAYER than the person 4-gating you.
Thanks dood but (even) I can hold a 4gate because I practiced it over&over again. Hatch first holds it quite effectively because most variations of 4gate never includes a forge.
But also note that all those things you mentioned are the things to be learned AFTER you learn macro imo and this is far from being educational until mid diamond (I don't know that but people say that a good macro will bring you up to mid diamond).
On November 26 2010 07:22 Patriot.dlk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2010 07:13 Metalwing wrote:I just fail at counting the number of LowestSkillS-ClassPlayerPrime wannabees in this thread. This is the protoss equivalent of 6 pooling next 100 people who comes across you on the ladder. It helps nothing except mastering on 4 warpgate build. Why would you post this? A lot of good good posts defended this challenge with structured arguments that you just ignored. As many others have said it's a great way to practice. You will use gateway units in combat over and over while you have to macro out new ones... Useful skill to have indeed.
Macroing out of 1 base is child's play. Real macro comes in the game after 3rd base (which is the exact point that my macro starts slipping). And, like I said above, these skills are useful after mid diamond and will turn you into LowestSkillS-ClassPlayerPrime-ish players (If that guy knows how to macro, so do I).
On November 26 2010 17:47 melquiades wrote:Fuck this challenge. I am sick unto death of facing the endless stream of dicks who can do nothing but 4-gate. And now this! Encouraging them! It doesn't matter that it's easy to brush off, it's just so fucking boring to see it time and time again, and as a Protoss player I feel embarrassed/cheapened/dirty. I think I'll start my own personal challenge to BM every dick who 4-gates me, and in a unique and startling way with each incarnation. I hope you all fail
I'm in with your challenge. But I have a clause: I won't insult my own practice partners.
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let people 4-gate if they want. Every race can pull something like 4 gate off. I personally wouldn't care about that, because 4 gate isn't that big of a deal to hold.
I 4-gated when 1 was bronce for like 10-15 games to try it out, but it became really boring, because it's every time the same. And I personally think that the learning effect for nearly everybody == zero (or to say it correctly: in 100 "normal" games anyone would learn MUCH more)
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On November 26 2010 12:30 Trigramatic wrote:I'm a Zerg that encountered my first 4gate an hour ago. I'm still bronze, but I've been fighting silvers or golds, and this guy was gold. I won after a rough transition out of 7 roach rush. I think he may have left me alone too long after he found out I had spines and a small roach army waiting for him. When he encountered me at my base, he might have been able to win regardless. Here's the replay. I know I haven't got the best sense of mechanics yet, but I'm certainly optimistic. Still, I'm thinking his was a not so well done 4-gate. + Show Spoiler +Yeah, I'm basically 7 roach rushing my games until I level out somewhere. :3c
I just watched the replay and this protoss did not know how to play at all, he pylon blocked himself, waaaay too late core etc.. He did not even manage to macro off of one base..
I dont have much comments for your play as I am protoss, but that was one horrible 4 gate...:D
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Canada439 Posts
Last 100 times I got 4gated, the toss got handed a handfull of EMP and rape.
Good luck.
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On November 26 2010 13:00 yandere991 wrote:
I don't know why most people still think protoss is alone with the "highly effective yet easy to pull off" build. When off racing as terran in custom games despite not knowing a clear build order I can beat protoss at 1700 rating (a bit above my level) by only knowing that 2 reactor-ed raxxes with a scouting factory and 2 tech lab-ed starports will net me wins against protosses much much much better than me.
Totally agreed. The same holds true for the 2-3 thor or the 8 thor scv-repair push as zerg. Before I knew how to properly respond to that I lost 2-3 games against low-apm scrubs and I bet there are many "ok players" which will lose to that.
Sc2 has so many hard counters that you can easily lose against strats you haven't encountered before.
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EPT
