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On November 25 2010 23:44 Centorian wrote:
If you know a 4 gate is coming it is easy enough to hold against. What is annoying is that the build is so ridiculously easy to execute. Players with far inferior mechanics can win against better players just because Protoss happens to have one build that requires no skill and can win you games up into mid-high diamond.
Are you seriously implying that Protoss is alone in this?
Shit, my P friends can offrace and 3rax/marine-raven-banshee rush me dead.
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Russian Federation20 Posts
Thanks for that challenge! I've played about 15 games, lost about 4 of them. People are getting pissed off by 4 gate, it's so funny 
I don't see why 4gating will not make me a good player. It will surely improve my micro at least. If it will promote me to higher level, then I'll be facing better players, therefore I will learn from them and get even better eventually. The only way to learn to play better is to play with stronger opponents.
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Wow the amount of hate in this thread is a little to much. This is no poll this is not posing the question of how much you like/dislike the 4 gate. There is to much derailing in here why people are coming in here and just voicing their opinion on 4 gate and how much they hate 4 gate. Why not just make a straight up topic and you all discuss it in there. Coming in here and ranting is straight up trolling whether it's intentional or not.
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Haha, the hate for 4 gate in this thread is hilarious. Let me address a few of the misconceptions people have about this build.
It will only work against bad players
I'm a 2k diamond player, so the opponents I face should be pretty decent. My main race is zerg and protoss is easily my weakest race and for the 18 games I've played in this challenge so far, I'm 12-6.
Now there's certainly a pretty big gap between 2k diamond and the very top players, but we still frequently see 4 gates in GSL and major foreign tournaments.
Yes, top players are much better at holding off 4 gate builds than your average gold leaguer, but then a 4 gate done by Genius or Tester is also much harder to stop than the average gold protoss's 4 gate.
It won't teach you anything about the game
Here's an idea: maybe doing 4 gate will teach you how to 4 gate. 4 gate is not a very complicated build, but the difference between a well executed 4 gate rush and a sloppy 4 gate is still pretty big.
4 gate is one of the most important protoss builds in the game, so any protoss player should know how to do it properly, and the only way to learn it is to practice it.
Also, there are many fundamentals of protoss that you can learn through 4 gating, such as microing your basic gateway units or switching back to your pylons to produce units even during a fight.
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4gate is a perfectly reasonable strategy with just as many strengths and weaknesses as any other. I'd bet there's just as many Zs and Ts who love playing 4gaters as those who hate it, because they're just good at dealing with it. If it's causing you problems that's not the build's fault, and you should welcome more 4gates because you obviously need to practice against it.
Anyway, I'm not sure I like the idea of a challenge like this. 100 games is a bit much imo (that's half the amount of games I've ever played!). I'm all for ironing out a play style, and sure I bet I'd go up in rank by perfecting any build, but by the end of 100 games I'd be a one-trick pony playing way out of my league, and that's no fun. Maybe if you alternate every 20 games or so with another style, but I guess that's not the point.
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On November 26 2010 02:51 sambour wrote:
4gate is a perfectly reasonable strategy with just as many strengths and weaknesses as any other. I'd bet there's just as many Zs and Ts who love playing 4gaters as those who hate it, because they're just good at dealing with it. If it's causing you problems that's not the build's fault, and you should welcome more 4gates because you obviously need to practice against it.
Anyway, I'm not sure I like the idea of a challenge like this. 100 games is a bit much imo (that's half the amount of games I've ever played!). I'm all for ironing out a play style, and sure I bet I'd go up in rank by perfecting any build, but by the end of 100 games I'd be a one-trick pony playing way out of my league, and that's no fun. Maybe if you alternate every 20 games or so with another style, but I guess that's not the point.
Remember that 4-gate games won't usually last more than eight minutes so you get to play more games ^^. In my opion, 4 gate is all-in in every match-up, but in PvP. It is actually very solid opening in PvP :b
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Does 4-gate with +1 timing attack count towards the challenge? If it does, I think this may be worth a shot (+1 attack vs zerg is so hilarious)
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On November 24 2010 15:25 haegN wrote:
I am doing this because I didnt use to 4 gate that much, and I wanted to see what it would be like
It looks like the 2nd easiest way to win without macro (sorry 4gate but 2 rax all-in gets the 1st place).
EDIT: (The one after BB codes) Even I can win with 4 gate and I'm a silver zerg
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Why is 4gate a way to win without macro?
You still need to warp units at every cooldown to do it right. How come it's different from warping out of 10 gates in a late game?
edit: and what about chrono boost?
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On November 26 2010 03:37 beef42 wrote:
Why is 4gate a way to win without macro?
You still need to warp units at every cooldown to do it right. How come it's different from warping out of 10 gates in a late game?
Macro as in dealing with multiple bases and handling upgrades, supply, etc.
Of course, with protoss, unless you're building out of stargates and robo bays, you use the same amount of effort warping in units when you get warp-gates as when you're 20+ minutes into the game, so the whole "win without macro" is more of "OMG I JUST GOT ALL-INED QQ" situation whine, like when you see some protoss players QQ about getting roaches in their face early-game.
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In fact, I'd argue that it's actually easier in the late game, because you are more restricted by resources than warpgate time when you have many gates, so you just end up warping in whenever you have money for it.
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On November 26 2010 03:43 beef42 wrote:
In fact, I'd argue that it's actually easier in the late game, because you are more restricted by resources than warpgate time when you have many gates, so you just end up warping in whenever you have money for it.
If you don't have enough money, then you have bad macro. Getting new bases, managing workers, etc, is all part of macro. So it is easier in the late game if you cannot afford units because it is easier to do worse.
4gate you are skipping basically all of macro, and only making army, which is the easiest thing ever.
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Please explain to me why making a nexus and transfering workers there every so often is so much harder and more skilled than warping units out of warpgates every time they're up.
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Didnt read the whole only till 9th page but here are my 2 cets
+ It will teach you the discipline to sit down and play 100 games with the same BO
+ Learning on your own to perfect an opening and adjust it based on scouting and learning to transition
+ mikro
+ after this you will exactly know when you can 4gate and win
+ for other people: You will learn how to defend against 4 gate if enought players will participate
And for all the haters. Check Huks interview all korean toss are 4gating on lader in PvP.....
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This is the only problem with ladder games. You rarely play the same person twice, so people can get away with doing the same thing every game.
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On November 26 2010 04:05 whitelynx wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2010 03:43 beef42 wrote:
In fact, I'd argue that it's actually easier in the late game, because you are more restricted by resources than warpgate time when you have many gates, so you just end up warping in whenever you have money for it. If you don't have enough money, then you have bad macro. Getting new bases, managing workers, etc, is all part of macro. So it is easier in the late game if you cannot afford units because it is easier to do worse. 4gate you are skipping basically all of macro, and only making army, which is the easiest thing ever.
If you don't have money that means that have have good macro? I think this is what you mean since you'd be MACROING units, therefore having no money....right?
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so you want your fellow toss players to become worse? lol
Personally (Z), i believe that 4gate is a good build, however it's one of those builds where once it's stopped, you're not in the greatest of positions...
Also, the fact that it is pretty good, people will start to rely on it too much, and get rolled by people who know how to stop it (not always, but a good portion)...
Pretty funny challenge though.
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Okay, played 20 games so far and won 16 out of those. I knew that 4 gate was a good build, but I never actually realised how strong it was against terran and protoss.
However, I'm not really having success with it against zerg, which is pretty much expected since I have very little trouble with 4 gate when I'm playing zerg in the latest patch. Those PvZ games i won all went into mid or late game after I pulled back when I realised I wasn't going to break the zerg (except that one game where my opponent made mass lings but forgot speed upgrade^^).
I've gained 130 points of which about 20 are bonus pool.
Name/ID: drunkenJedi.346
League: Diamond
Points before: 1989 (11 Bonus pool)
Points after 20 games: 2119
Final score: ?
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I just fail at counting the number of  LowestSkillS-ClassPlayerPrime wannabees in this thread. This is the protoss equivalent of 6 pooling next 100 people who comes across you on the ladder. It helps nothing except mastering on 4 warpgate build.
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On November 26 2010 07:13 Metalwing wrote:I just fail at counting the number of LowestSkillS-ClassPlayerPrime wannabees in this thread. This is the protoss equivalent of 6 pooling next 100 people who comes across you on the ladder. It helps nothing except mastering on 4 warpgate build.
Why would you post this? A lot of good good posts defended this challenge with structured arguments that you just ignored.
As many others have said it's a great way to practice. You will use gateway units in combat over and over while you have to macro out new ones... Useful skill to have indeed.
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EPT
