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On November 25 2010 08:34 FlakeyGiraffe wrote:
Why do a build that we know already works? do something more unorthodox like:
NonY's dual stargate build.
2gate robo fast collosi.
I find this challenge a bit silly IMO.
Honestly, I think the best build for this sort of test would be 1 gate FE into X against all races. The game will inevitably switch toward more macro oriented play. Maybe 4 gate contain into expand would also work, but I think no matter what build you choose. Doing it 100 times back to back would probably have a greater overall improvement on your game than you could get by doing a different build all the time. Sometimes seeing the many different responses to your one build can be very eye opening and lead to some new ideas or take your game to another level. Im one of those that thinks this type of thing will greatly enhance your play rather than detract from it.
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congrats on lpaying protoss.
nice way of learning the game mechanics lol ......
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On November 25 2010 08:48 Santi wrote:
congrats on lpaying protoss.
nice way of learning the game mechanics lol ......
Just lost to 4 gate?
lol
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On November 25 2010 08:40 mvpAKAenvyME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 08:34 FlakeyGiraffe wrote:
Why do a build that we know already works? do something more unorthodox like:
NonY's dual stargate build.
2gate robo fast collosi.
I find this challenge a bit silly IMO. The reason why we "do a build" that already works, is because it's a GAME, and you can do WHATEVER THE FUCK you want in that game while you're playing. It's not like 4 gate build is some uber 1337 hax and you're CHEATING to win everytime you use it. You could build 10 proxy nexus' and pure probes and rush them with that and win if you wanted (not saying its viable, but seriously) just trying to get the point across that I, and ANYONE else can do anything they want in a 1v1. So stop whining about it. And if you still wanna whine about it, go back to BW. Nuff said.
Let me condense this down: If someone thinks 4 gate is such a "cheap" or "scrubby" tactic, why are you still dying to it? If someone cries "oh you 4 gated me, tosses can only 4 gate, it's so cheap" it means they are the scrub. No, it might not teach the protoss player about aspects of the game other than being aggressive, but playing to win is not playing to learn.
A lot of people find 4 gate comically easy to defuse, really.
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On November 25 2010 08:51 Tuneful wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 08:40 mvpAKAenvyME wrote:On November 25 2010 08:34 FlakeyGiraffe wrote:
Why do a build that we know already works? do something more unorthodox like:
NonY's dual stargate build.
2gate robo fast collosi.
I find this challenge a bit silly IMO. The reason why we "do a build" that already works, is because it's a GAME, and you can do WHATEVER THE FUCK you want in that game while you're playing. It's not like 4 gate build is some uber 1337 hax and you're CHEATING to win everytime you use it. You could build 10 proxy nexus' and pure probes and rush them with that and win if you wanted (not saying its viable, but seriously) just trying to get the point across that I, and ANYONE else can do anything they want in a 1v1. So stop whining about it. And if you still wanna whine about it, go back to BW. Nuff said. Let me condense this down: If someone thinks 4 gate is such a "cheap" or "scrubby" tactic, why are you still dying to it? If someone cries "oh you 4 gated me, tosses can only 4 gate, it's so cheap" it means they are the scrub. No, it might not teach the protoss player about aspects of the game other than being aggressive, but playing to win is not playing to learn. A lot of people find 4 gate comically easy to defuse, really.
Ah yes, and now I'll condense your post down even further. With some help from your bolded words.
THEY WIN. LEARN.
I think most people should get what I mean from that, if not: well, they are winning, so LEARN what you need to do to stop them from winning with this strat. Obviously people are win whores, so they are going to do the same thing every time if they can win EVERY time doing it. I am right or what?
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On November 25 2010 08:51 Tuneful wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 08:40 mvpAKAenvyME wrote:On November 25 2010 08:34 FlakeyGiraffe wrote:
Why do a build that we know already works? do something more unorthodox like:
NonY's dual stargate build.
2gate robo fast collosi.
I find this challenge a bit silly IMO. The reason why we "do a build" that already works, is because it's a GAME, and you can do WHATEVER THE FUCK you want in that game while you're playing. It's not like 4 gate build is some uber 1337 hax and you're CHEATING to win everytime you use it. You could build 10 proxy nexus' and pure probes and rush them with that and win if you wanted (not saying its viable, but seriously) just trying to get the point across that I, and ANYONE else can do anything they want in a 1v1. So stop whining about it. And if you still wanna whine about it, go back to BW. Nuff said. Let me condense this down: If someone thinks 4 gate is such a "cheap" or "scrubby" tactic, why are you still dying to it? If someone cries "oh you 4 gated me, tosses can only 4 gate, it's so cheap" it means they are the scrub. No, it might not teach the protoss player about aspects of the game other than being aggressive, but playing to win is not playing to learn. A lot of people find 4 gate comically easy to defuse, really.
Losing to 4gate doesn't necessarily mean you're a scrub. Alot of Diamond toss players still 4gate except they actively try and hide the fact that they're 4gating. Hiding buildings, faking a FE, actively denying scouting etc.
Even pros still lose to 4gate. It's strong when it has the element of surprise, and the higher you go the better people are at hiding what theyre doing/deceiving you and taking you by surprise. Most of the time you can tell even if they are. A FE without a forge can make you suspicious enough to scan or sac an OL. But sometimes you won't see it. I usually hold them off but I've lost to them before and I'll probably lose to it again, sadly.
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any of you cocksuckers wanna do 100 4gates vs my zerg?
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.. well at least a lot of people will get to learn how to stop 4 gates now!
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You guys are really missing the point. I'm a protoss player that got to a decently high level never 4-gating once because I didnt want to be a one trick pony. The real benefit to this is to control an aspect of your game that is often confusing and overwhelming. By doing the same build over and over you can sharpen your fundamentals alot faster than if you were constantly thinking about what to build next, etc. Honestly figuring out what to build is the EASY part of the game. The fundamentals are what is lost on many players. This is why the koreans are so good... they practice alot and they practice in a smart way, by lowering the number of builds they do and doing them often to have a solid foundation. Once built, the other stuff comes easy, but without it you could have 15 different builds and still be terrible.
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On November 25 2010 08:35 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 07:04 Suerte wrote:
This thread would be better served teaching our Protoss friends to expand more. Attempt an FE in every game for 100 games, this will make you a better player. Besides, 4 gate is easy to stop by every race but Protoss. FE is far more fun than four gating, but four gating on backdoor maps is quite easy and strong. I find it kind of bad against good players if you try to bust their front with it. You generally have to completely surprise them or they just hunker down and repel.
Yea, that is true, I kinda forgot, I have blistering sands veto'd same with DQ because of how lame it is to deal with a 4 gate PvP on those maps. I just think we shouldn't be encouraging players to 4 gate. It's incredibly boring to play and watch. I cry every game I've seen people only 4 gate every single match in tournaments. There's people that only 4 gate and it's just so boring.
I'm mostly just bitter because PvP is my least favorite matchup :X
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On November 25 2010 08:49 mvpAKAenvyME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 08:48 Santi wrote:
congrats on lpaying protoss.
nice way of learning the game mechanics lol ...... Just lost to 4 gate? lol
nah, havent lost to one in a while. but i always like to scout it cause i know i will win.
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On November 25 2010 08:55 mvpAKAenvyME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 08:51 Tuneful wrote:On November 25 2010 08:40 mvpAKAenvyME wrote:On November 25 2010 08:34 FlakeyGiraffe wrote:
Why do a build that we know already works? do something more unorthodox like:
NonY's dual stargate build.
2gate robo fast collosi.
I find this challenge a bit silly IMO. The reason why we "do a build" that already works, is because it's a GAME, and you can do WHATEVER THE FUCK you want in that game while you're playing. It's not like 4 gate build is some uber 1337 hax and you're CHEATING to win everytime you use it. You could build 10 proxy nexus' and pure probes and rush them with that and win if you wanted (not saying its viable, but seriously) just trying to get the point across that I, and ANYONE else can do anything they want in a 1v1. So stop whining about it. And if you still wanna whine about it, go back to BW. Nuff said. Let me condense this down: If someone thinks 4 gate is such a "cheap" or "scrubby" tactic, why are you still dying to it? If someone cries "oh you 4 gated me, tosses can only 4 gate, it's so cheap" it means they are the scrub. No, it might not teach the protoss player about aspects of the game other than being aggressive, but playing to win is not playing to learn. A lot of people find 4 gate comically easy to defuse, really. Ah yes, and now I'll condense your post down even further. With some help from your bolded words. THEY WIN. LEARN. I think most people should get what I mean from that, if not: well, they are winning, so LEARN what you need to do to stop them from winning with this strat. Obviously people are win whores, so they are going to do the same thing every time if they can win EVERY time doing it. I am right or what?
I build a worker at the start of every game. Win whoring me.
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lol interesting idea
altho i fkn hate 4gate - it never stops being good =/
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On November 25 2010 08:40 mvpAKAenvyME wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2010 08:34 FlakeyGiraffe wrote:
Why do a build that we know already works? do something more unorthodox like:
NonY's dual stargate build.
2gate robo fast collosi.
I find this challenge a bit silly IMO. The reason why we "do a build" that already works, is because it's a GAME, and you can do WHATEVER THE FUCK you want in that game while you're playing. It's not like 4 gate build is some uber 1337 hax and you're CHEATING to win everytime you use it. You could build 10 proxy nexus' and pure probes and rush them with that and win if you wanted (not saying its viable, but seriously) just trying to get the point across that I, and ANYONE else can do anything they want in a 1v1. So stop whining about it. And if you still wanna whine about it, go back to BW. Nuff said.
Wow mvp. Why are you getting angry? He is just wondering why don't we do a different build instead of four gate, a polite inquiry. He's talking about the challenge. He's not whining about anything! Holy crap, you are ridiculous. He knows that you can do whatever you want. He is wondering about this challenge that we have set up.
Personally I don't think this four gate is a very good idea either, you can do whatever you want. But IMO I don't think I like it. Maybe 3 gate expand? Doesn't matter to me, I don't play Protoss, but I think it would be better to do the three gate expand, as it will get a pretty good lead in the game. Just my opinion.
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Its shit like this that has made me despise the USA ladder since day one, people are not interested in improving themselves they just want to see their points go up. When every other game is some all in neither side gains anything from the game win or lose, neither player improved their macro or micro. Playing nothing but some new all in from the last round of GSL Vods gets really old fast.
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what you gotta understand is that sc2 has not gotten (yet) to the point of BW where all that matters are your mechanics because the strategy wise side is solved so the one whit better micro/macro ends up winning... so thats why all-ins are so good... and you do learn from those since you learn to defend from them and if your greedy and face them a lot you can test how much you can get away whit making you at the end better at decition making and better strategy wise... so yes you do learn from it... unless your just mindlessly doing an all-in every game and not even looking for place to improve on your replays.
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On November 25 2010 08:24 drewbie.root wrote:
please dont encourage 4gating omg =[
4 Gate is just the beginning of this series, I picked it because it is viable against all three races =)
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Also, a common myth is that Katari only 4gates. If you look at his build orders, he 2/3gate robo's with delayed colossi quite a bit too.
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I hate how people say "good players don't lose to x strategy". Most of these are cheeses, including 4 gates, six pools, and proxy gates/raxes, however GSL players get knocked out by these things all the time.
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EPT
