EPTA Korean fan explains why he hates KeSPA - Page 3
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Zerksys
United States569 Posts
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mrdx
Vietnam1555 Posts
On November 14 2010 15:30 CanucksJC wrote: The articles mentioned at the end of OP are pretty much garbage. I did a quick scan, and this is some of the bs the journalist (same person writing all of them) pulled out of his ass - the success of sc2 in korea is nothing but a sudden spark, and even credits that brief moment to WoW players trying out sc2 for a couple days. - rumour that FruitDealer purposely lost to BoxeR like the infamous match fixing scandal in BW - mentions some riot of gamers that sc2 fried their graphics card - treats sc2 as a single player game and speculates when people will transfer over to playing multiplayer - blames GSL for the WeRRa scandal. says that this is one of many side effects such a huge tournament can have on players, and notes the lack of organization. suggests an organization like KeSPA control these teams like how it's done in BW. questions Blizzard's ability to promote e-sports Yup, he's pretty much garbage. Wowowowow is this for real? :o I cannot believe a person who wrote all that crap could be considered a journalist :o | ||
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Lokian
United States699 Posts
On November 14 2010 15:30 CanucksJC wrote: The articles mentioned at the end of OP are pretty much garbage. I did a quick scan, and this is some of the bs the journalist (same person writing all of them) pulled out of his ass - the success of sc2 in korea is nothing but a sudden spark, and even credits that brief moment to WoW players trying out sc2 for a couple days. - rumour that FruitDealer purposely lost to BoxeR like the infamous match fixing scandal in BW - mentions some riot of gamers that sc2 fried their graphics card - treats sc2 as a single player game and speculates when people will transfer over to playing multiplayer - blames GSL for the WeRRa scandal. says that this is one of many side effects such a huge tournament can have on players, and notes the lack of organization. suggests an organization like KeSPA control these teams like how it's done in BW. questions Blizzard's ability to promote e-sports Yup, he's pretty much garbage. Actually, SC2 did fry some people's cards in beta when there was no limit to FPS rate. But it only affected people that over clocked their cards because normally those cards would shut down after getting to a certain temperature. | ||
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Fiel
United States587 Posts
Because you also have to consider what KeSPA did to change public understanding of Starcraft. Their organization completely changed one of Blizzard's products that, like most other strategy games from the 90s, would have been swept under the rug by now. Their investment into the product is worth something too, isn't it? So since KeSPA has helped Blizzard indirectly, it would seem rude of Blizzard to stomp in their face about IP rights. I think it's because of KeSPA that I can still go to Wal-Mart and find Starcraft sitting on a shelf for $15. Also, remember that KeSPA is a not-for-profit organization solely dedicated to eSports. To say that KeSPA is a threat to Starcraft is totally off-base, but to say that KeSPA is a threat to international copyright is most likely accurate. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On November 14 2010 15:44 Zerksys wrote: How can Kespa consider starcraft public property? I just don't get it. It's a creation that was made with the purpose to sell and make money. That's what copyrights are for... sigh On November 14 2010 15:50 Fiel wrote: Because you also have to consider what KeSPA did to change public understanding of Starcraft. Their organization completely changed one of Blizzard's products that, like most other strategy games from the 90s, would have been swept under the rug by now. Their investment into the product is worth something too, isn't it? So since KeSPA has helped Blizzard indirectly, it would seem rude of Blizzard to stomp in their face about IP rights. I think it's because of KeSPA that I can still go to Wal-Mart and find Starcraft sitting on a shelf for $15. Kespa considers the product of esports as a whole to be outside Blizzard's control. Obviously the game itself is made and sold by Blizzard, but the individual games played in Kespa tournaments; played by the professional players, casted by the professional commentators, on maps made by the professional map-makers, broadcasted by the tv networks—that's what Kespa argues that Blizzard has nothing to do with. Thank you for the title change, JWD. | ||
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Tianx
United States1196 Posts
On November 14 2010 15:49 Lokian wrote: Actually, SC2 did fry some people's cards in beta when there was no limit to FPS rate. But it only affected people that over clocked their cards because normally those cards would shut down after getting to a certain temperature. When trying to promote a game, hardcore nerds and people who rely on gaming computers to make a living are probably the two groups of people you least want to ruin the computers of. | ||
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XiaoJoyce-
China2908 Posts
Is it, many will switch? For me, I will switch because I prefer playing a new game than an old game keke. If I cannot switch, I will admire those. I mean envy those who play SC2. SC1 and SC2 is like difference between PSP and Gameboy color. It is more than 10 years difference. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
On November 14 2010 15:50 Fiel wrote: "How can Kespa consider starcraft public property? I just don't get it. It's a creation that was made with the purpose to sell and make money. That's what copyrights are for... sigh" Because you also have to consider what KeSPA did to change public understanding of Starcraft. Their organization completely changed one of Blizzard's products that, like most other strategy games from the 90s, would have been swept under the rug by now. Their investment into the product is worth something too, isn't it? So since KeSPA has helped Blizzard indirectly, it would seem rude of Blizzard to stomp in their face about IP rights. I think it's because of KeSPA that I can still go to Wal-Mart and find Starcraft sitting on a shelf for $15. which patch did they release? which pro-mod? | ||
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kingbob2
United States9 Posts
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Fiel
United States587 Posts
which pro-mod?" I'm really not here to take sides in this debate. While I love SC1, as long as I can still watch matches on Youtube I'll be happy. Whatever outcome causes that end result, I'm all for it. You take what I say too literally. The sentence beforehand I was talking about public perception. That is what they changed. | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
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Zerksys
United States569 Posts
On November 14 2010 15:50 Fiel wrote: Because you also have to consider what KeSPA did to change public understanding of Starcraft. Their organization completely changed one of Blizzard's products that, like most other strategy games from the 90s, would have been swept under the rug by now. Their investment into the product is worth something too, isn't it? So since KeSPA has helped Blizzard indirectly, it would seem rude of Blizzard to stomp in their face about IP rights. I think it's because of KeSPA that I can still go to Wal-Mart and find Starcraft sitting on a shelf for $15. Also, remember that KeSPA is a not-for-profit organization solely dedicated to eSports. To say that KeSPA is a threat to Starcraft is totally off-base, but to say that KeSPA is a threat to international copyright is most likely accurate. I know that KeSPA has contributed massive effort to make starcraft what it is, but quite honestly (from my knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong) they did not inform blizzard of their actions and nor did blizzard care at first. When you're entering into a business venture based upon promoting someone else's product, you better be damn sure that the person holding the copyright supports you. As I saw it no effort was made on their part to contact blizzard and draw up some form of legal agreement. I'm not saying that KeSPA is a threat to starcraft quite the contrary. KeSPA has been the best thing that starcraft has encountered. It is what happened after the negotiations failed that makes me see KeSPA as a bad company. Paying journalists to write scathing comments about starcraft 2 and not allowing their players to participate in the tournaments (players who btw entered into progamming because of their love for real time strategy) and banning their players from touching the game was a bit out of line. | ||
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ci_esteban
United States217 Posts
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Zyban
United States54 Posts
that reporter should be thrown in jail for slander for the WeRRa comments IMO. I believe Blizz wants to see the continued success/growth of BOTH games and I hope they do whatever is necessary to make this a reality. They have shown they are more than willing to be accommodating as long as organizations don't STEAL from them. | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
On November 14 2010 16:00 Baarn wrote: I'll be kinda pissed if and when I won't be able to see PL anymore. So I can understand the anger. Star2 is cool and has it's moments it's just pretty much mass 1 base push play mostly though which makes it boring as fuck to watch for an extended period of time. I'm hopeful Star2 will improve in time it just won't replace the old game. It already has? I thought the whole 'OMG SC2 is just 1base all-ins every game' phase was over... like 5-6 months ago. | ||
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Gonodactylus
54 Posts
Blizzard totally denies the player's role in the esports product. They try to steal away the IP rights of the progamers by EULA's and big corporate lawyer muscle. Kespa takes money from the broadcasters and gives it to the players. That's exactly how it ought to be. And while I think BLizzard can play a role in SC2, they just play no role in SC BW. Blizzard didn't balance Starcraft. Blizzard did nothing. Remeber how often we had to rage on the bnet forums because some new patch made the game unplayable for everyone? How they had Testie pick the non-Korean Blizzcon invites? How they played on non-observer maps because they didn't know observer maps even existed? The list goes on. Blizzard has never been a friend of Starcraft esports. And now they try to set a new IP law precedent that will make esports nonviable as a professional industry. | ||
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Baarn
United States2702 Posts
On November 14 2010 16:11 oxxo wrote: It already has? I thought the whole 'OMG SC2 is just 1base all-ins every game' phase was over... like 5-6 months ago. Oh the 2 out of 10 games you see on stream must be the ones you are referring to. | ||
Selith
United States238 Posts
On November 14 2010 16:12 Gonodactylus wrote: Wait, so he hates Kespa for standing up against Blizzard? That's exactly why everyone that supports Kespa supports Kespa. Blizzard totally denies the player's role in the esports product. They try to steal away the IP rights of the progamers by EULA's and big corporate lawyer muscle. Kespa takes money from the broadcasters and gives it to the players. That's exactly how it ought to be. And while I think BLizzard can play a role in SC2, they just play no role in SC BW. Blizzard didn't balance Starcraft. Blizzard did nothing. Remeber how often we had to rage on the bnet forums because some new patch made the game unplayable for everyone? How they had Testie pick the non-Korean Blizzcon invites? How they played on non-observer maps because they didn't know observer maps even existed? The list goes on. Blizzard has never been a friend of Starcraft esports. And now they try to set a new IP law precedent that will make esports nonviable as a professional industry. 1. There's no "IP rights" of the progamers. 2. If KeSPA gets their way, they will push a law that would completely destroy any and every possible games from becoming e-sports in South Korea. | ||
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Gonodactylus
54 Posts
You really think Kespa will play only Starcraft BW and Sudden Strike or whatever they play until the end of time. That's stupid. Maybe it will scare away companies that want total control over their esports like Blizzard does. But Blizzard is the only one so far that takes this extreme stance. Also, it's silly to say a law protecting the IP rights of players would destroy esports by scaring away developers. That's so extreme and backwards. Not to mention disrespectful to everyone that has put so much hard work into the Korean scene to make it professional. Not to mention such a law isn't even an issue right now, asaik. Also, didn't SuperDanialMan say basically the same thing about Werra? That it wouldn't ever happen in a real professional setting or a proleage/BW team? | ||
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emericaonline
United States41 Posts
On November 14 2010 16:06 Zyban wrote: Thank you for the great write up! was looking for a complete back story to this ongoing debate, and after reading this feel like KeSPA is really out of line with the way they are handling their relationship with blizzard, players, and the fans of BOTH our beloved starcrafts we have now. BOTH of which are undeniably intellectual property of Blizzard, and I hope any attempt by KeSPA to make monetary gains from this gets shut down by korean/international courts. that reporter should be thrown in jail for slander for the WeRRa comments IMO. I believe Blizz wants to see the continued success/growth of BOTH games and I hope they do whatever is necessary to make this a reality. They have shown they are more than willing to be accommodating as long as organizations don't STEAL from them. While this topic does provide some background information on the issue at hand, it does not provide all of it. There are two sides to each story. Of course this is the starcraft 2 section and it seems this side more biased towards Blizzard. The other side which is obviously the brood war section seems to be biased some towards kespa. Let me clear something up from my limited knowledge. Kespa is nonprofit and any money it does make is reinvested into the pro scene. They, as much as I have read, barely meet the amount of money the put in yearly. Kespa has done some wrong doing, but I believe Blizzard has done so as well. If you want to form an opinion for either side I believe you should see some of the topics on the bw side. There are arguments for both sides in those forums as well. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163043 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=164504 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163353 There are plenty more but those are a few. Please before posting any statements, look over at least some of these threads and as many more as you can find. p.s. I'm trying to remain neutral. | ||
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