EPTVimsey's cases, assuming he didn't make things up, are more likely to be a personal case involving one purchase. However, Blizzard's case involves a much more larger scale. It's not just you can't read EULA before and don't agree with it. It's broadcasting IP rights material that is protected by EULA, which can be read on the manual. It's a different story.
A Korean fan explains why he hates KeSPA - Page 21
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Veldril
Thailand1817 Posts
Vimsey's cases, assuming he didn't make things up, are more likely to be a personal case involving one purchase. However, Blizzard's case involves a much more larger scale. It's not just you can't read EULA before and don't agree with it. It's broadcasting IP rights material that is protected by EULA, which can be read on the manual. It's a different story. | ||
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Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On November 15 2010 15:22 TheRabidDeer wrote: I would like to see a box of medication in your country if such things have to be visible on the outside of the box... because here in america we can have pages of information/warnings/other stuff that is required, and there aint no way in hell you are fitting that on the outside of a box. I would also like to see the rule that says the entirety of the agreement has to be on the product. I have just gone onto blizzards online website and at no point does it offer you the oppotunity to read the EULA prior to purchaseand thats ONLINE. Also many courts will argue that many pages of legalese containing much content that contravenes local laws to be about as binding as toilet paper. | ||
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Rickilicious
United States220 Posts
for instance, copyright infringement is like $250,000, I would assume for other nations, it is some outrageous amount of money as well, while it might not equate to exactly the same, you still will be paying a very similar price for breaking the law | ||
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Pull
United States308 Posts
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Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On November 15 2010 15:28 Rickilicious wrote: EULA's for a video game do not equal U.S. laws. I don't understand why several people are using that as a legitimate argument. It's a term of agreement for using Blizzards property which you essentially 'rented'. It doesn't matter if you break it in Cuba, Israel, Australia or Korea, if you break the agreement, you pay the consequences. While you can argue terms inside the EULA in court, I wouldn't imagine the consequences are very different in other countries. for instance, copyright infringement is like $250,000, I would assume for other nations, it is some outrageous amount of money as well, while it might not equate to exactly the same, you still will be paying a very similar price for breaking the law Only if you have copyrights in that country for example when Budweiser USA tried to sue Budweiser in the cech republic for using the name Budweiser. | ||
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Pleiades
United States472 Posts
"THIS SOFTWARE IS LICENSED, NOT SOLD. BY INSTALLING, COPYING OR OTHERWISE USING THE GAME (DEFINED BELOW), YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO INSTALL, COPY OR USE THE GAME. IF YOU REJECT THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER YOUR PURCHASE, YOU MAY CALL (800) 757-7707 TO REQUEST A FULL REFUND OF THE PURCHASE PRICE." SC 2 EULA US VER | ||
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Creizai
United States14 Posts
On November 14 2010 18:43 Ocedic wrote: You hit 'I Agree' to the terms and conditions just to play. Whether or not you read it does not matter. It was a contract presented to you, with clear terms and conditions, and the ability for you to accept or deny those terms. Whatever f'd up laws they have in EU I could care less about. To any rational, logical person, you are in the wrong. Actually it's with Kespa where players have no rights. GOM/Blizzard do not have any power-hungry rules dictating who can play what, when they can play it, when they can fucking pause or say ingame, etc. The most elegant proof: 1) What happens if a current Brood War player switches to play SC2 now? He is banned from proleague, loses his license and if you're as unlucky as Nada, stats are wiped and reputation is attacked. 2) What would happen if an SC2 player were to swap to Brood War? Yeah, exactly. Peace. Loved your Elegant Proof, this is what sets Kespa apart from GOMtv. | ||
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Gonodactylus
54 Posts
And in fact we are talking about SC BW, not SC2. Remember, this is on the wrong forum. SC BW had nothing on the box about Blizzard owning the replays, the maps the matches and whatever you create using their game. Secondly, it's right; Blizzard isn't even suing Kespa. So how does it even matter how much you hate kespa? Do you hate OGN&MBC? And I again want to point out that OGN&MBC were, besides Blizzard, one of the few actually making a profit. They got broadcasting rights of the players for free and it's very cheap to create the content. So Kespa made them force to pay to the teams. That is good. It made player conditions better for sure. OGN and MBC are the only two organizations that can run professional Starcraft tournaments and broadcast them to a wide audience; be it SC BW or SC2. Blizzard is now suing their biggest potential ally because of blind greed. And for all those people claiming esports players have no IP rights under law; no kidding! What country has an esports law? IP was an idea that grow out of a certain moral view and only later on it was turned into law by the corporations themselves as they went along and it became beneficial. If you are going to protect IP rights why do it only for the big shot corporations and not for the small man. It's immoral. I never claimed that it was already legally so or not. I only claimed that about EULA's which has many cases associated. And even if an EULA holds up in the US, remember how it holds up in court that corporations have personhood. That was never a law. It still isn't a law. US is a very corrupt country. The fortune500 owns the country, control the politicians and judges. Blizzard will probably win vs MBC and OGN. But when they extort MBC and OGN into agreeing the rights are 50-50 between them when Kespa runs the leagues and the players provide the creative content the viewers come to watch for, how is that fair and moral? That's all I am saying. Blizzard is immoral. EULAs, which everyone uses, are weak and ought to be illegal always. That's all I am saying and no matter how ignorant of a student at some crappy community college you are, that doesn't change what is already there in print. And let's not forget the Korean government already told Blizzard to change their EULA as it would have been obviously illegal. They didn't change this for the rest of the world because it isn't an issue for the governments there. And if corporations were really real persons, we would all diagnose them as psychopaths and lock them up. They act as psychopaths because they must as bound by law to act as such. Case Dodge bros vs Ford. As for all those people calling me 'idiot', 'troll', 'kespa agent', 'down syndrome', 'retard', fuck you guys too. | ||
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Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
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xBillehx
United States1289 Posts
On November 15 2010 15:39 Gonodactylus wrote: And in fact we are talking about SC BW, not SC2. Remember, this is on the wrong forum. SC BW had nothing on the box about Blizzard owning the replays, the maps the matches and whatever you create using their game. On the back of my BW case: "The use of this software product is subject to the terms of the enclosed End User License Agreement. You must accept the End User License Agreement before you can use this product. The Campaign Editor contained in this product is provided strictly for your personal use. The use of the Campaign Editor is subject to additional license restrictions contained inside the product and may not be commercially exploited." Opening up the EULA afterwards does indeed state more restrictions for commercial use, aka what OGN/MBC currently does. Just wanted to point that out. Edit: I'm not gonna argue about whether or not its morally right or wrong but it is indeed there. As for the rest of your post I just don't feel like bothering because many other people have/will anyway. | ||
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Gonodactylus
54 Posts
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Pleiades
United States472 Posts
On November 15 2010 15:39 Gonodactylus wrote: See, suddenly these hotshot 'law undergrads' liars are forced to turn around. And in fact we are talking about SC BW, not SC2. Remember, this is on the wrong forum. SC BW had nothing on the box about Blizzard owning the replays, the maps the matches and whatever you create using their game. Secondly, it's right; Blizzard isn't even suing Kespa. So how does it even matter how much you hate kespa? Do you hate OGN&MBC? And I again want to point out that OGN&MBC were, besides Blizzard, one of the few actually making a profit. They got broadcasting rights of the players for free and it's very cheap to create the content. So Kespa made them force to pay to the teams. That is good. It made player conditions better for sure. OGN and MBC are the only two organizations that can run professional Starcraft tournaments and broadcast them to a wide audience; be it SC BW or SC2. Blizzard is now suing their biggest potential ally because of blind greed. And for all those people claiming esports players have no IP rights under law; no kidding! What country has an esports law? IP was an idea that grow out of a certain moral view and only later on it was turned into law by the corporations themselves as they went along and it became beneficial. If you are going to protect IP rights why do it only for the big shot corporations and not for the small man. It's immoral. I never claimed that it was already legally so or not. I only claimed that about EULA's which has many cases associated. And even if an EULA holds up in the US, remember how it holds up in court that corporations have personhood. That was never a law. It still isn't a law. US is a very corrupt country. The fortune500 owns the country, control the politicians and judges. Blizzard will probably win vs MBC and OGN. But when they extort MBC and OGN into agreeing the rights are 50-50 between them when Kespa runs the leagues and the players provide the creative content the viewers come to watch for, how is that fair and moral? That's all I am saying. Blizzard is immoral. EULAs, which everyone uses, are weak and ought to be illegal always. That's all I am saying and no matter how ignorant of a student at some crappy community college you are, that doesn't change what is already there in print. And let's not forget the Korean government already told Blizzard to change their EULA as it would have been obviously illegal. They didn't change this for the rest of the world because it isn't an issue for the governments there. And if corporations were really real persons, we would all diagnose them as psychopaths and lock them up because they are bound by law to act as such. Case Rover vs Ford. As for all those people calling me 'idiot', 'troll', 'kespa agent', 'down syndrome', 'retard', fuck you guys too. First of all, most of your statements are opinionated. Second, you never backed up your claim of E-sports player's IP being violated by Blizzard. I asked you to clarify on that. I never said laws were morally right or immoral. Heck, I don't even agree to numerous laws, but I do understand the concepts and reasoning for some of them. Lastly, I don't care if Blizzard or OGN/MBC wins, I'm just interested in what's going on with this case and the future of IP laws. | ||
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Gonodactylus
54 Posts
You don't care about morality and you don't care about esports, or who wins. Case closed. | ||
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Zeridian
United States198 Posts
On November 15 2010 15:53 Gonodactylus wrote: Pleiades, I don't care for you. You are a dishonest debater. You don't care about morality and you don't care about esports, or who wins. Case closed. this post kind of made me lol. you're really proving you're standing on higher ground than him with the whole "Case closed" thing. | ||
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MassAirUnits
United States66 Posts
On November 15 2010 15:28 Vimsey wrote: I have just gone onto blizzards online website and at no point does it offer you the oppotunity to read the EULA prior to purchaseand thats ONLINE. Also many courts will argue that many pages of legalese containing much content that contravenes local laws to be about as binding as toilet paper. ? http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/sc2eula.html Says that right on the top of my SC2 box. | ||
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Gonodactylus
54 Posts
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Dakkas
2550 Posts
On November 15 2010 14:55 Vimsey wrote: Providing now extra input or reason why, cheers. In your example, you imply that you are forced to sign a contract/agreement against your own free will, that you don't have the choice of not signing it upon threat of physical violence. If your example was to apply true here, it would mean that Blizzard are forcing you to agree with the EULA by threatening you with damage to your persons (either physical or legal) if you don't agree with purchasing the game and installing it. Last time I checked, I have not heard of any cases of Blizzard suing people for not buying the game | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On November 15 2010 15:28 Vimsey wrote: I have just gone onto blizzards online website and at no point does it offer you the oppotunity to read the EULA prior to purchaseand thats ONLINE. Also many courts will argue that many pages of legalese containing much content that contravenes local laws to be about as binding as toilet paper. The direct link is on the box www.starcraft2.com/legal/eula.html I dont have my original box for BW, so I cant verify that they have a link on that box, but I know that it does say you need to agree to the EULA. Its also not "many pages of legalese" most of it is quite plain english also "IF YOU REJECT THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER YOUR PURCHASE, YOU MAY CALL (800) 757-7707 TO REQUEST A FULL REFUND OF THE PURCHASE PRICE." | ||
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
On November 15 2010 15:49 Gonodactylus wrote: Does it say that in Korea on all SC and SC BW cases. Thats the issue. And then there has to be something about esports at the EULA at that time. Now you couldn't read it before opening online for sure. So that's void too. And then it has to be in law for Blizzard to win anyway. Why would there need to be something about esports? Why are you making up random stuff as if it is fact!? I was trying to come up with something ridiculous that you would make up next, but nothing I could think of is as ridiculous as the stuff you say on a regular basis. | ||
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Vimsey
United Kingdom2235 Posts
On November 15 2010 15:58 MassAirUnits wrote: ? http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/company/legal/sc2eula.html Says that right on the top of my SC2 box. That is a US one there is no link on the EU UK online store from where you can purchase a game when you should be able to view it to a EULA. Looking at the the EU site i can only find a "terms of use" not an EULA. Since the terms of use actually refers to the EULA in its text its quite laughable really. Also reading its terms on privacy at contravenes UK data protection law you have to give the option of opting out of sharing private information with third parties and they dont do that. | ||
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