A Korean fan explains why he hates KeSPA - Page 22

On November 14 2010 23:01 Gamjadori wrote:
I've been around TL since 2003, and I remember there being nothing but hate for KeSPA during those past 7 years up until just recently. There was always minimal support for KeSPA in the foreign community as far as I could tell, and I don't see what has happened in the past year that could have changed that.

If people have forgotten what TL used to think about KeSPA, go back and read this thread (about GOM Classic S4 being canceled due to KeSPA); http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=101934

Here's a selection of post from the first few pages;













These quotes might be out if context, but still this seemed to be the general opinion about KeSPA a little over a year ago. While this may not be relevant to the current discussion, I'm just wondering if people could point out what's changed about KeSPA now. It' still the same organization that people used to hate. Have people forgotten all their their past "deeds"? Before SC2, KeSPA was the devil, has anything happened to change that? Sure, some might not like Blizzard, but I don't so how KeSPA was ever any better. I'm not trying to argue that KeSPA is good or bad, I'm just curious as to WHY people's opinion have swung.

On November 15 2010 16:13 Vimsey wrote:

That is a US one there is no link on the EU UK online store from where you can purchase a game when you should be able to view it to a EULA. Looking at the the EU site i can only find a "terms of use" not an EULA. Since the terms of use actually refers to the EULA in its text its quite laughable really. Also reading its terms on privacy at contravenes UK data protection law you have to give the option of opting out of sharing private information with third parties and they dont do that.

On November 14 2010 14:46 LG)Sabbath wrote:

isn't this actually a good argument though?

On November 14 2010 14:53 GTR wrote:


I completely disagree. I believe Korea is probably one of the fervent, nationalistic cultures in the world.

On November 15 2010 16:01 Dakkas wrote:


In your example, you imply that you are forced to sign a contract/agreement against your own free will, that you don't have the choice of not signing it upon threat of physical violence.

If your example was to apply true here, it would mean that Blizzard are forcing you to agree with the EULA by threatening you with damage to your persons (either physical or legal) if you don't agree with purchasing the game and installing it.

Last time I checked, I have not heard of any cases of Blizzard suing people for not buying the game

On November 15 2010 16:31 TheRabidDeer wrote:

Why are you looking at the online store? The online store means you are entering a direct contract with blizzard, so if you disagree with the terms of use/EULA there is a direct break in the sale and you can easily get a refund, there is a reason they include this in the EULA.

Also, I read the terms and there are lots of options for opting out.

"Blizzard allows you to control the way that we use personal identifying information that we might obtain. At the time you provide personal information, Blizzard may give you the option of declining any future offers or information about new products, promotions, or services. In addition, many of the "mailings" Blizzard may send you, such as newsletters, have procedures within them to cancel the receipt of any future mailings. Lastly, you may be given the opportunity to "opt-out" of certain features or functionality (e.g. Real ID). "

and there are many other scenarios mentioned therein that also contain opportunities to opt out.

Stop making shit up!

On November 15 2010 20:10 Vimsey wrote:

You cant run the game without "agreeing" to the EULA, You have to give another option for it to be legal.

On November 15 2010 20:12 Vimsey wrote:
Because it had been stated that the EULA is there to read when it isnt. Also "As a general rule, Blizzard will not forward your information to a third party without your permission. However, we may divulge this data to third party vendors in response to a product order or to add you to a vendor’s commercial bulletin circulation list. In some cases, we can also disclose this information if our License Agreements or Terms of Service have been violated or if, in all good faith, we judge it is legally justified

As with any business, your personal information is also an asset of Blizzard and will become part of our normal business records. As such, in the event of a merger, acquisition, reorganization, bank-ruptcy, or other similar event, your personal information may be transferred to Blizzard 's successor or assignee."

This is from the Blizzard privacy policy in the EULA, it contravenes the UK data protection act and yet they say it applies to the UK and show me where I can "opt out" of this option. This is not making shit up, Ta.

On November 15 2010 20:12 TheRabidDeer wrote:

Your other option is to decline.

Or do you seriously mean to imply that you should be given the option to decline and still run the game? I hope not because that is the same retarded argument that the other guy used earlier in the thread... and he got completely demolished

On November 15 2010 20:17 Vimsey wrote:
How many places do you know that openly offer a refund if you have.

1) Opened the game.
2) Registered the account key.

Its not impossible to get your money back but not easy either.

Also a parallel I would draw would be UK banks a few years back that openly sold their customer data to advertisers/marketeers when they put in just such implied agreements into their contracts. You cannot do that anymore.

On November 15 2010 20:20 TheRabidDeer wrote:

Once again, since you are blind:
"IF YOU REJECT THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER YOUR PURCHASE, YOU MAY CALL (800) 757-7707 TO REQUEST A FULL REFUND OF THE PURCHASE PRICE."

Also, you can not register the account key without a battle.net account, which has its own EULA that you must agree to.

PS: I thought you were saying earlier that you had gotten many game refunds because you claimed that the UK had laws that protected you?

EDIT: Ah yea, found it:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=168895&currentpage=19#365
"I have got refunds from many games simply by stating my consumer rights when I have needed to the thing is that most people dont know their rights and if you knew anything about the legal profession you would know how much they laugh at EULAs."

On November 15 2010 20:29 Vimsey wrote:


That telephone number is American from the american website.

Yes I have, most dont know their rights and as I said before banks in this country used to have such privacy policy with the option of not opening an account with them. It is not legal..

On November 14 2010 16:48 Iplaythings wrote:

The list is so pro blizzard its sickening, I mean, sure KeSPA done alot of shit (DQ of Ruby fx) but I dont get why blizz doesnt treat the SCBW like free advertisement.

You could make a thread which disposed KeSPA as the good guy and Blizzard as the villian and then people would agree on that in the thread.

Sigh, netizens easily manipulated even though I guess all anti kespa would come here to show off their hate...

On November 15 2010 20:34 TheRabidDeer wrote:

Well, thanks for making me look up the EU policy
"IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOU ARE NOT PERMITTED TO INSTALL OR USE THE GAME. IF YOU REJECT THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER YOUR PURCHASE, YOU MAY ARRANGE TO RETURN THE GAME TO YOUR RETAILER, OR YOU MAY CONTACT BLIZZARD BY EMAIL AT WOWBILLINGSUPPORTEU@BLIZZARD.COM TO REQUEST A FULL REFUND OF THE PURCHASE PRICE, AND YOU SHOULD DELETE THE SOFTWARE PROGRAM IMMEDIATELY."

Same policy, but an email instead of a phone number.

On November 15 2010 20:38 Vimsey wrote:

But opening the box means you have "agreeed"to it before you have had the chance to read it. Their words not mine. As I said it contravenes the data protection act with the option of returning the product. You cant do that either.

On November 15 2010 20:39 TheRabidDeer wrote:

Where in hell do you see that you opening the box means you agreed to it? Are you high?

On November 15 2010 15:39 Gonodactylus wrote:
See, suddenly these hotshot 'law undergrads' liars are forced to turn around.

And in fact we are talking about SC BW, not SC2. Remember, this is on the wrong forum. SC BW had nothing on the box about Blizzard owning the replays, the maps the matches and whatever you create using their game.

Secondly, it's right; Blizzard isn't even suing Kespa. So how does it even matter how much you hate kespa? Do you hate OGN&MBC? And I again want to point out that OGN&MBC were, besides Blizzard, one of the few actually making a profit. They got broadcasting rights of the players for free and it's very cheap to create the content. So Kespa made them force to pay to the teams. That is good. It made player conditions better for sure.

OGN and MBC are the only two organizations that can run professional Starcraft tournaments and broadcast them to a wide audience; be it SC BW or SC2. Blizzard is now suing their biggest potential ally because of blind greed.

And for all those people claiming esports players have no IP rights under law; no kidding! What country has an esports law? IP was an idea that grow out of a certain moral view and only later on it was turned into law by the corporations themselves as they went along and it became beneficial. If you are going to protect IP rights why do it only for the big shot corporations and not for the small man. It's immoral. I never claimed that it was already legally so or not. I only claimed that about EULA's which has many cases associated.

And even if an EULA holds up in the US, remember how it holds up in court that corporations have personhood. That was never a law. It still isn't a law. US is a very corrupt country. The fortune500 owns the country, control the politicians and judges.

Blizzard will probably win vs MBC and OGN. But when they extort MBC and OGN into agreeing the rights are 50-50 between them when Kespa runs the leagues and the players provide the creative content the viewers come to watch for, how is that fair and moral? That's all I am saying. Blizzard is immoral. EULAs, which everyone uses, are weak and ought to be illegal always. That's all I am saying and no matter how ignorant of a student at some crappy community college you are, that doesn't change what is already there in print. And let's not forget the Korean government already told Blizzard to change their EULA as it would have been obviously illegal. They didn't change this for the rest of the world because it isn't an issue for the governments there.
And if corporations were really real persons, we would all diagnose them as psychopaths and lock them up. They act as psychopaths because they must as bound by law to act as such. Case Dodge bros vs Ford.

As for all those people calling me 'idiot', 'troll', 'kespa agent', 'down syndrome', 'retard', fuck you guys too.

On November 15 2010 20:38 Vimsey wrote:

But opening the box means you have "agreeed"to it before you have had the chance to read it. Their words not mine. As I said it contravenes the data protection act with the option of returning the product. You cant do that either.