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no, i am on 64bit so i loaded the x64 version
On September 07 2015 20:44 CarbonTwelve wrote:Edit: Hmm, don't think I did. I've just rebuilt it and uploaded it (just as a 7zip file), mind trying that out? It's on SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/projects/scfusion/files/SCFusion_v1.18.7z/downloadEdit 2: Just reading some online comments about the error, and some suggest that running as administrator might help, are you able to give that a go?
same error for both
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On September 07 2015 22:54 Sholip wrote:
Conclusions here: everything here seems to be in old HotS time, that's why the build order seems so slow. 2:18 in LotV time would be 1:38, which is already better than the one in the video. Now I have to test it if it actually works in-game, but in theory the one in the vid is actually not the "best" build.
Carbon, I think you should consider using LotV time in this version, because it is currently pretty misleading to be honest. (I'm sure you are already aware that LotV uses real-time now, which is 1.4 times slower than in HotS.)
Sorry, yes, I meant to mention that, it's still based on HotS time. Partly this is because they still quote research/build times in HotS time, however I will update it to convert those times to be displayed in LotV time.
2. I have not yet tried longer builds, but is the new economy with half the mineral patches being reduced already implemented?
The app never considers minerals running out. In HotS this was never a concern, and even for LotV I'm not sure it's something worth considering, given that by the time the minerals run out you've likely engaged in harassment / battles / etc. that will have thrown off the build order that SCFusion is recommending.
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On September 08 2015 00:55 graNite wrote:no, i am on 64bit so i loaded the x64 version
Sorry, I should've made it more clear. Even with 64 bit Windows you need to install the 32 bit redistributables as it is a 32 bit application.
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On September 07 2015 22:54 Sholip wrote:1. I recently saw a video about the "best gasless Zerg opener" in LotV. It uses multiple extractor tricks and at 1:50 it has one 2 Hatches, 1 Pool and 18 Drones and 1 Overlord. So I went ahead and set the goal to 2 bases, 2 Hatches, 1 Pool, 18 Drones at 1:50 in hopes that it will confirm the build order in the video. After a simulation count of 150M it tells me this build order: + Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 3L 12/ 14S - Build Drone
0:35.77: 300M 0G 3L 13/ 14S - Build Hatchery
0:42.14: 50M 0G 3L 12/ 14S - Build Drone
0:48.51: 50M 0G 2L 13/ 14S - Build Drone
1:10.96: 200M 0G 2L 14/ 14S - Build Spawning Pool
1:16.71: 50M 0G 3L 13/ 14S - Build Drone
1:27.52: 100M 0G 2L 14/ 14S - Build Overlord
1:35.63: 75M 0G 2L 14/ 14S - Extractor Trick Drone
1:52.52: 184M 0G 2L 15/ 22S - Build Drone
1:52.52: 134M 0G 1L 16/ 22S - Build Drone
2:01.71: 179M 0G 1L 17/ 22S - Build Drone
Waypoint 1 satisfied:
2:18.71: 318M 0G 2L 18/ 28S
Income: 717M 0G
Buildings: 2 Hatchery 1 Spawning Pool
Units: 18 Drone 2 Overlord
Research: Conclusions here: everything here seems to be in old HotS time, that's why the build order seems so slow. 2:18 in LotV time would be 1:38, which is already better than the one in the video. Now I have to test it if it actually works in-game, but in theory the one in the vid is actually not the "best" build. Carbon, I think you should consider using LotV time in this version, because it is currently pretty misleading to be honest. (I'm sure you are already aware that LotV uses real-time now, which is 1.4 times slower than in HotS.)
FWIW, I just tested this build and even on a bad connection with some slight delays I managed to get the 18th drone out at 1:45, so we can confirm it's a better build than the one in the video 
Just did a few more tests with a basic build each from Terran, Protoss and Zerg, and I was able to achieve all builds within ~10s or so of SCFusion's time, despite being rusty and playing on a poor connection, so I think it's working out fine. I'll release a new version shortly with the updated output for LotV time.
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On September 08 2015 06:16 CarbonTwelve wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2015 00:55 graNite wrote:no, i am on 64bit so i loaded the x64 version Sorry, I should've made it more clear. Even with 64 bit Windows you need to install the 32 bit redistributables as it is a 32 bit application.
works now, thank you for your support
you should change the thread title now!
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On September 08 2015 15:36 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2015 06:16 CarbonTwelve wrote:On September 08 2015 00:55 graNite wrote:no, i am on 64bit so i loaded the x64 version Sorry, I should've made it more clear. Even with 64 bit Windows you need to install the 32 bit redistributables as it is a 32 bit application. works now, thank you for your support you should change the thread title now!
Yeah, I'll have to ask an admin to do it for me (I can't edit that post any more).
The next thing I'd like to work on is to have a text to speech component, allowing you to have the build order read out to you while you play it. There was a website someone had set up to do that a while ago, but I'd like to integrate it into the application, although possibly have it included in the package but as a separate application (potentially C# or something that doesn't have to be as heavy to have TTS).
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On September 08 2015 15:42 CarbonTwelve wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2015 15:36 graNite wrote:On September 08 2015 06:16 CarbonTwelve wrote:On September 08 2015 00:55 graNite wrote:no, i am on 64bit so i loaded the x64 version Sorry, I should've made it more clear. Even with 64 bit Windows you need to install the 32 bit redistributables as it is a 32 bit application. works now, thank you for your support you should change the thread title now! Yeah, I'll have to ask an admin to do it for me (I can't edit that post any more). The next thing I'd like to work on is to have a text to speech component, allowing you to have the build order read out to you while you play it. There was a website someone had set up to do that a while ago, but I'd like to integrate it into the application, although possibly have it included in the package but as a separate application (potentially C# or something that doesn't have to be as heavy to have TTS).
wouldnt it be easier to record all commands by yourself or someone with a nice voice (like smix did for sc2gears)
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On September 08 2015 12:14 CarbonTwelve wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2015 22:54 Sholip wrote:1. I recently saw a video about the "best gasless Zerg opener" in LotV. It uses multiple extractor tricks and at 1:50 it has one 2 Hatches, 1 Pool and 18 Drones and 1 Overlord. So I went ahead and set the goal to 2 bases, 2 Hatches, 1 Pool, 18 Drones at 1:50 in hopes that it will confirm the build order in the video. After a simulation count of 150M it tells me this build order: + Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 3L 12/ 14S - Build Drone
0:35.77: 300M 0G 3L 13/ 14S - Build Hatchery
0:42.14: 50M 0G 3L 12/ 14S - Build Drone
0:48.51: 50M 0G 2L 13/ 14S - Build Drone
1:10.96: 200M 0G 2L 14/ 14S - Build Spawning Pool
1:16.71: 50M 0G 3L 13/ 14S - Build Drone
1:27.52: 100M 0G 2L 14/ 14S - Build Overlord
1:35.63: 75M 0G 2L 14/ 14S - Extractor Trick Drone
1:52.52: 184M 0G 2L 15/ 22S - Build Drone
1:52.52: 134M 0G 1L 16/ 22S - Build Drone
2:01.71: 179M 0G 1L 17/ 22S - Build Drone
Waypoint 1 satisfied:
2:18.71: 318M 0G 2L 18/ 28S
Income: 717M 0G
Buildings: 2 Hatchery 1 Spawning Pool
Units: 18 Drone 2 Overlord
Research: Conclusions here: everything here seems to be in old HotS time, that's why the build order seems so slow. 2:18 in LotV time would be 1:38, which is already better than the one in the video. Now I have to test it if it actually works in-game, but in theory the one in the vid is actually not the "best" build. Carbon, I think you should consider using LotV time in this version, because it is currently pretty misleading to be honest. (I'm sure you are already aware that LotV uses real-time now, which is 1.4 times slower than in HotS.) FWIW, I just tested this build and even on a bad connection with some slight delays I managed to get the 18th drone out at 1:45, so we can confirm it's a better build than the one in the video Just did a few more tests with a basic build each from Terran, Protoss and Zerg, and I was able to achieve all builds within ~10s or so of SCFusion's time, despite being rusty and playing on a poor connection, so I think it's working out fine. I'll release a new version shortly with the updated output for LotV time.
I actually rewatched the video, though, and it seems that that build actually has 19 Drones at 1:50. If I aim for that, SCF suggests a slightly different build, but one still better than in the vid.
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On September 08 2015 16:06 graNite wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2015 15:42 CarbonTwelve wrote:On September 08 2015 15:36 graNite wrote:On September 08 2015 06:16 CarbonTwelve wrote:On September 08 2015 00:55 graNite wrote:no, i am on 64bit so i loaded the x64 version Sorry, I should've made it more clear. Even with 64 bit Windows you need to install the 32 bit redistributables as it is a 32 bit application. works now, thank you for your support you should change the thread title now! Yeah, I'll have to ask an admin to do it for me (I can't edit that post any more). The next thing I'd like to work on is to have a text to speech component, allowing you to have the build order read out to you while you play it. There was a website someone had set up to do that a while ago, but I'd like to integrate it into the application, although possibly have it included in the package but as a separate application (potentially C# or something that doesn't have to be as heavy to have TTS). wouldnt it be easier to record all commands by yourself or someone with a nice voice (like smix did for sc2gears)
Everything is driven by XML, so you can name the commands anything you like Besides, nobody wants to hear me talk, plus I'm too lazy to re-record every time Blizzard changes something.
On September 08 2015 19:04 Sholip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2015 12:14 CarbonTwelve wrote:On September 07 2015 22:54 Sholip wrote:1. I recently saw a video about the "best gasless Zerg opener" in LotV. It uses multiple extractor tricks and at 1:50 it has one 2 Hatches, 1 Pool and 18 Drones and 1 Overlord. So I went ahead and set the goal to 2 bases, 2 Hatches, 1 Pool, 18 Drones at 1:50 in hopes that it will confirm the build order in the video. After a simulation count of 150M it tells me this build order: + Show Spoiler + 0:02.00: 50M 0G 3L 12/ 14S - Build Drone
0:35.77: 300M 0G 3L 13/ 14S - Build Hatchery
0:42.14: 50M 0G 3L 12/ 14S - Build Drone
0:48.51: 50M 0G 2L 13/ 14S - Build Drone
1:10.96: 200M 0G 2L 14/ 14S - Build Spawning Pool
1:16.71: 50M 0G 3L 13/ 14S - Build Drone
1:27.52: 100M 0G 2L 14/ 14S - Build Overlord
1:35.63: 75M 0G 2L 14/ 14S - Extractor Trick Drone
1:52.52: 184M 0G 2L 15/ 22S - Build Drone
1:52.52: 134M 0G 1L 16/ 22S - Build Drone
2:01.71: 179M 0G 1L 17/ 22S - Build Drone
Waypoint 1 satisfied:
2:18.71: 318M 0G 2L 18/ 28S
Income: 717M 0G
Buildings: 2 Hatchery 1 Spawning Pool
Units: 18 Drone 2 Overlord
Research: Conclusions here: everything here seems to be in old HotS time, that's why the build order seems so slow. 2:18 in LotV time would be 1:38, which is already better than the one in the video. Now I have to test it if it actually works in-game, but in theory the one in the vid is actually not the "best" build. Carbon, I think you should consider using LotV time in this version, because it is currently pretty misleading to be honest. (I'm sure you are already aware that LotV uses real-time now, which is 1.4 times slower than in HotS.) FWIW, I just tested this build and even on a bad connection with some slight delays I managed to get the 18th drone out at 1:45, so we can confirm it's a better build than the one in the video Just did a few more tests with a basic build each from Terran, Protoss and Zerg, and I was able to achieve all builds within ~10s or so of SCFusion's time, despite being rusty and playing on a poor connection, so I think it's working out fine. I'll release a new version shortly with the updated output for LotV time. I actually rewatched the video, though, and it seems that that build actually has 19 Drones at 1:50. If I aim for that, SCF suggests a slightly different build, but one still better than in the vid.
Ah, ok, I'll have to retry it.
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Hello! I had to make an account to personally thank you for this program! It has helped me out throughout HotS, and now I'm using it in LotV Beta.
However, I do have a question:
I was making an adept build and I came across this.
+ Show Spoiler +Waypoint 1 satisfied:
2:28.65: 319M 72G 34/ 39S
Income: 832M 114G
Buildings: 1 Nexus 3 Pylon 1 Assimilator 3 Gateway 1 Cybernetics Core
Units: 25 Probe 4 Adept
Research:
As you see I have one nexus and 25 probes. If I recall correctly, buildings have a max worker count of 16 and any more made after that won't mine.
Would it possible to edit the xml file to have a maximum worker count of 16 per base or could an option be added to limit workers per base? For now I am just going to add bases to my build order if I see my worker count too high.
Overall great program! Thank you for your time!
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Does the algorith account for unit travel time and lost mining time while building? i.e. a probe will have to walk somewhere to build shit u know. But it should not be that important since all builds would have to have this so I guess its redundant
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On September 16 2015 14:25 Pyromartian wrote:Hello! I had to make an account to personally thank you for this program! It has helped me out throughout HotS, and now I'm using it in LotV Beta. However, I do have a question: I was making an adept build and I came across this. + Show Spoiler +Waypoint 1 satisfied:
2:28.65: 319M 72G 34/ 39S
Income: 832M 114G
Buildings: 1 Nexus 3 Pylon 1 Assimilator 3 Gateway 1 Cybernetics Core
Units: 25 Probe 4 Adept
Research: As you see I have one nexus and 25 probes. If I recall correctly, buildings have a max worker count of 16 and any more made after that won't mine.
That's not true. Firstly, three of the probes are on gas, but also, workers have optimal mining efficiency with 16 per base, so adding more workers doesn't give anywhere near as much benefit, however there is still a slight benefit to having more workers, hence why the algorithm is doing that.
Would it possible to edit the xml file to have a maximum worker count of 16 per base or could an option be added to limit workers per base? For now I am just going to add bases to my build order if I see my worker count too high.
Overall great program! Thank you for your time!
I could probably add something to the options page to prevent over saturation. I'll look into it.
On September 16 2015 14:36 Dumbledore wrote:
Does the algorith account for unit travel time and lost mining time while building? i.e. a probe will have to walk somewhere to build shit u know. But it should not be that important since all builds would have to have this so I guess its redundant
Yes, it does account for this.
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That's not true. Firstly, three of the probes are on gas, but also, workers have optimal mining efficiency with 16 per base, so adding more workers doesn't give anywhere near as much benefit, however there is still a slight benefit to having more workers, hence why the algorithm is doing that.
That is good to know, so I'm assuming it is like HotS.
I am also looking forward to the Text To Speech! In the meanwhile, does anybody know where I can find a site that can read out build orders? My Google-Fu has failed me and what I am doing is recording myself reading build orders. Effective, but time consuming.
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I've just released SCFusion v1.20: https://sourceforge.net/projects/scfusion/files/?upload_just_completed=true
It includes the balance update from last week, plus includes the first version of the Text To Speech companion app. It's very raw atm, so please forgive the simple interface and lack of options. Here's a basic run-down on how to use it:
Firstly, you will need to download and install the Microsoft Speech Platform x86 runtime (v11): http://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/details.aspx?id=27225
Secondly, you will need to download and install a voice for the Microsoft Speech Platform: http://www.microsoft.com/en-au/download/details.aspx?id=27224 (I recommend the Zira Pro voice: MSSpeech_TTS_en-US_ZiraPro.msi)
Then to use the app, select & copy the output from SCFusion's Simple output *before* you start the app up.
Start the app up, and it should display the build order:
![[image loading]](http://s8.postimg.org/3n11samit/SCFusion_TTS.png)
From here, you can use the Start/Stop button to obviously start/stop the timer, but you can also use the numpad asterisk key to start it - this is registered as a global hotkey, so you can do it even while in a game. You can also use the numpad plus and minus keys to increase or decrease the timer by a second. This will hopefully allow you to get the app's timer in sync with the game timer (or to adjust if you get behind a bit on the build order).
The speech for the commands will be read out 2.5 seconds before the command is due to be executed. This gives a bit of advance notice of what you need to do, whilst still highlighting the command you're up to. It also helps for when multiple commands need to be executed at the same time, although for builds where that might be a problem I recommend setting the 'Max APM' option in SCFusion when you generate the build order.
FWIW, I'm not 100% sold on the Microsoft Speech Platform, it's just that it was the easiest one to get going, and the voices for it sound pretty good. I think that covers it for now. Like I said, it's very much a raw thing atm, and I haven't even had a chance to test it in-game yet (at work atm), so I'm kind of hoping someone else will be willing to give it a go
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I managed to test out the TTS component last night & this morning, and I'm pretty pleased with the results. Obviously the interface needs a lot of cleanup, but having someone read out what you need to do just before you need to do it is a big help for getting the build order done without missing anything.
It does seem like the timings are a bit off though. I originally thought it was just missing when you need to place something, but it seems even the income rates weren't quite right. I'm not sure if this is due to the auto-split not being accurate enough, with probes running around a bit even a minute or two after the game starts, but I'll have a look into it and see if I can tighten it up a bit to be more accurate.
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v1.22 has been released: https://sourceforge.net/projects/scfusion/files/?upload_just_completed=true
This adds options to disable the extractor trick (it's now disabled by default, you can enable it under Settings -> Optional Commands), as well as options to select the income rate calculation. I plan to do some more detailed testing over the weekend to fine tune income rate calculations, but for now it allows you to select between 'Optimal Saturation' (no more than 16 workers on minerals per base) and 'Maximum Saturation' (up to 24 workers on minerals per base).
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First of all thanks for this awesome program. I've got a few questions:
When i run a calculation it takes something like 3-4 hours untill i get to >90% i guess that is just my slow computer or are there some other things i could try?
I run a calculation on the following zerg build:
Waypoint 1 (max time 3:20): Zergling >= 6
Target: Bases >= 3, Drones >=48, Queen >= 3, Metabolic Boost Required
All the solutions the program came up with had 6 Zerglings much faster at around 2:20 even though that should slow down the income and thus the other stuff. Also the gas is taken quite early which is one drone less mining at the start as well.
This is the full build i got:+ Show Spoiler +14 Extractor Trick Drone
15 Build Overlord
16 Build Hatchery
18 Build Spawning Pool
17 Build Extractor
16 Build Hatchery
18 2 * Move Drone To Gas
19 Build Queen
21 3 * Build Zergling
24 Move Drone To Gas
25 Build Queen
Waypoint 1 satisfied:
2:22.24: 42M 86G 1L 28/ 28S
Income: 717M 114G
Buildings: 2 Hatchery 1 Extractor 1 Spawning Pool
Units: 20 Drone 2 Overlord 6 Zergling
Research:
28 Research Metabolic Boost
28 3 * Move Drone To Minerals
28 Queen Spawn Larvae
28 Build Overlord
35 Build Overlord
35 Queen Spawn Larvae
40 Queen Spawn Larvae
41 Build Queen
43 Build Overlord
Waypoint 2 satisfied:
3:46.49: 499M 0G 3L 57/ 58S
Income: 1977M 0G
Buildings: 3 Hatchery 1 Extractor 1 Spawning Pool
Units: 48 Drone 5 Overlord 6 Zergling 3 Queen
Research: Metabolic Boost
I thought the program was jus trying for the fastest time to reach the targets or are there some other conditions built in?
You disabled extractor trick by default to make for easier build orders not because it is less efficient, correct?
If this is the case it would be nice to have extractor trick usage limited to a certain timeframe if that is possible at all. This way you can still have the most efficient build at the very start where it matters the most.
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On September 30 2015 18:16 zerge wrote:
When i run a calculation it takes something like 3-4 hours untill i get to >90% i guess that is just my slow computer or are there some other things i could try?
Not necessarily. The algorithm can never give an accurate measurement of the reliability, so I wouldn't stress too much about getting it to >90%.
I run a calculation on the following zerg build: Waypoint 1 (max time 3:20): Zergling >= 6 Target: Bases >= 3, Drones >=48, Queen >= 3, Metabolic Boost Required All the solutions the program came up with had 6 Zerglings much faster at around 2:20 even though that should slow down the income and thus the other stuff. Also the gas is taken quite early which is one drone less mining at the start as well. This is the full build i got: + Show Spoiler +14 Extractor Trick Drone
15 Build Overlord
16 Build Hatchery
18 Build Spawning Pool
17 Build Extractor
16 Build Hatchery
18 2 * Move Drone To Gas
19 Build Queen
21 3 * Build Zergling
24 Move Drone To Gas
25 Build Queen
Waypoint 1 satisfied:
2:22.24: 42M 86G 1L 28/ 28S
Income: 717M 114G
Buildings: 2 Hatchery 1 Extractor 1 Spawning Pool
Units: 20 Drone 2 Overlord 6 Zergling
Research:
28 Research Metabolic Boost
28 3 * Move Drone To Minerals
28 Queen Spawn Larvae
28 Build Overlord
35 Build Overlord
35 Queen Spawn Larvae
40 Queen Spawn Larvae
41 Build Queen
43 Build Overlord
Waypoint 2 satisfied:
3:46.49: 499M 0G 3L 57/ 58S
Income: 1977M 0G
Buildings: 3 Hatchery 1 Extractor 1 Spawning Pool
Units: 48 Drone 5 Overlord 6 Zergling 3 Queen
Research: Metabolic Boost I thought the program was jus trying for the fastest time to reach the targets or are there some other conditions built in?
It tries to reach the final target as fast as possible. From the look of the build it seems it's capped more by larvae than minerals, so that could be why it takes the opportunity to get the zerlings out early.
You disabled extractor trick by default to make for easier build orders not because it is less efficient, correct?
If this is the case it would be nice to have extractor trick usage limited to a certain timeframe if that is possible at all. This way you can still have the most efficient build at the very start where it matters the most.
Extractor trick is generally more efficient, at least, from what the algorithm believes, however the difference is roughly 2 minerals, so I really don't think it's worth the hassle. It might be possible to implement something that prevents commands after a certain time, but it'd be messy to achieve, and ultimately, as above, it's not a significant advantage, so I don't think it's worth investing development time on.
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EPT
