EPTBoxer: might go random if Terran gets nerfed again. - Page 6
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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snorlax
United States755 Posts
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Vz0
Canada378 Posts
yeah lets just ban everyone who disagrees or has a different opinion than you of "good" I was banned back when I said "nada qued up a siege tank againts TLO" Sure you could interpret that as 'nada sux balls" but thats not what I said, yet I was still banned for shit like that. Its because of fanboys like that over react to every single slightly negative fact/opinion touching ur bonjwas . Oh and what happened to - Julyzerg wiill rofl stomp everyone after 1 week? - NaDa will make TLO cry - Foreigners have no chance ! ??? How long has it been? Yet the top players are and have always been the ones from the beta TesteR , Cool, IdrA (up the very recent) | ||
ArvickHero
10387 Posts
On October 30 2010 14:01 Vz0 wrote: yeah lets just ban everyone who disagrees or has a different opinion than you of "good" I was banned back when I said "nada qued up a siege tank againts TLO" Sure you could interpret that as 'nada sux balls" but thats not what I said, yet I was still banned for shit like that. Its because of fanboys like that over react to every single slightly negative fact/opinion touching ur bonjwas . Oh and what happened to - Julyzerg wiill rofl stomp everyone after 1 week? - NaDa will make TLO cry - Foreigners have no chance ! ??? How long has it been? Yet the top players are and have always been the ones from the beta TesteR , Cool, IdrA (up the very recent) hey all three of those got knocked out, and no foreigner in the Ro8 hmmmm | ||
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muzzy
United States640 Posts
On October 30 2010 14:05 ArvickHero wrote: hey all three of those got knocked out, and no foreigner in the Ro8 hmmmm Has nothing to do with the fact that they're foreigners... FruitDealer is out as well, but he won the last one... doesn't prove anything. There is a smaller pool of foreigners for the GSL, c'mon, it's in Korea... of course it will be that way. Anyway, to try and stay on thread topic a bit- Complaining that Terran is underpowered now? Oh c'mon... we go from everyone screaming "Terran OP!" to this in one patch? The game is more balanced now than it has ever been. Minor tweaks needed, but it's good. Boxer is good, no doubt about it, but he's not a Tier 1 SC2 player yet... Maybe not even Tier 2. I'd put my vote on just about any Top 100 player over Boxer, honestly. He just needs more practice. Give it a few months and my opinion will probably be different, favoring Boxer more. | ||
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canikizu
4860 Posts
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
Zerg players are fairly comfortable dealing with MMM aswell, I kinda feel like Mech needs to be explored more against Zerg. I think right now Nada can beat any Zerg tho, that guy has sick macro man! | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
Not enough Korean terrans use ghosts! | ||
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Losticus
United States62 Posts
Boxer is good, no doubt about it, but he's not a Tier 1 SC2 player yet... Maybe not even Tier 2. I'd put my vote on just about any Top 100 player over Boxer, honestly. He just needs more practice. I guess all those "Tier 1" and "Tier 2" SC2 players no longer in the GSL didn't get the memo and forgot to sign up. For the record, he's undefeated in the GSL and just made the BlizzCon runner-up look like a noob.  | ||
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helokity
Canada47 Posts
hes a great player and is up there in GSL2 rightfully so. im not a fanboy and havent heard of him until recently because i had never played or got into sc until sc2 came out. boxer is only noting that unless terrans do heavy rax play with timing pushes. it is pretty much banking on your opponent to make a mistake for any variation of mech play or late game play to win. terrans have the best early game and as the game progresses just get overrun by both zerg and toss. i very highly doubt BoxeR would ever follow through with this as he is someone who continues sc because of his large fan base and ending his terran play this late wouldnt be his style. on the contrary after watching NaDa recently, i think terran play might heavily evolve. ive never seen a terran macro and expand that hard before. in all this time of sc2, its the first variation of terran play ive seen and it looks like it may drastically improve mid game transitions i'll agree that reapers were OP at the start but since being triple nerfed have been taken out of the game aside from being a weak scout that is easily picked off. and although Terrans are not very UP right now, it is getting pretty frustrating having every patch have nerfed terrans the most. and it kind of needs to stop the nerfs is what BoxeR was getting at. especially when buffing other races. you can see that almost every zerg at the time of the patch was laughing and feeling bad for terrans because they knew the patch went overboard on changing ZvT | ||
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
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Insanious
Canada1251 Posts
This meant that the Z players had to play harder in order to compete vs T and P. So, they explored more parts of their races, and Z learned to deflect early harass with relative success. Then came the latest patch. What happens? Now Z who has been working so hard to learn to survive vs early game anything has a little less to worry about. They have to cover less based, but their "defend with as little resource loss" skills have carried over. Now Z has learned the best ways to defend vs early game pressure but now with slower early game pressure (zealot time nerf, supply before rax, etc...) Z can now has a more consistent macro + defense pattern than before (where they had to worry about stupidly fast 2 gates and reaper rushes). Now T and P have to adapt to not being able to bust in so early. Z changed their tactics very little... went from prepare for cheese -> scouted no cheese plays. T and P have to change the way they play all together as parts of their games were removed. Z has been practicing this style of play since the game came out... T and P are just evolving. Now that Z, T, and P are relatively equal (T needs a small late game buff) Z has their strat ironed out and T and P are still trying to figure stuff out. In time, T and P will learn a more optimal way of play, just currently we haven't seen is as there's been too little time. I think Z is just a little more refined and evolved play as Z had to play that way due to being UP, T and P are catching up but really wont take long for them to figure out the new way to play, the new timings, and everything will be A OK once again. | ||
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NikonTC
United Kingdom418 Posts
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YMCApylons
Taiwan359 Posts
On October 30 2010 13:54 blade55555 wrote: I also think Boxer will stay at top level play for a long time as long as he keeps playing and doesn't quit I doubt he'll fall behind. This isn't bw so macro should not hurt Boxer too much at least not like in bw. We'll see though only time will answer this question. I don't know if this is true or not, but I was thinking the same thing. SC2 makes macroing easier than BW, I don't know if anyone doubts this. So Boxer might find taking his third a little easier than he did in BW. With multiple building select, smart-cast on MULEs, its just much easier to be macroing hard as Terran. But micro is still micro. Smart-cast and large control-groups are nice, but as Boxer showed in Ro16, with that awesome SCV ramp-block, you still need individual unit control. Think about Nada's marine spread against banelings. Virtually all BW-pros re-assign their army control groups on-the-fly, depending on what they need at the moment. Boxer is clearly a master at BW-micro. And Terran micro is going to develop much more. Right now, Boxer is basically going Tank-Viking with extra mins in marines. But after future patches, I'd expect Boxer to come up with some creative uses for Ghosts and Ravens. So the transition from SC:BW to SC2 might be helping Boxer more than most pros. Finally, Boxer is by nature more of a creative player than a flawless macro perfectionist, and because the SC2 meta-game hasn't been mapped out like BW, there's still a lot of room for Boxer to wreak havoc with unconventional play. He's not going to be shut down by standard play, because standard play hasn't had time to develop and adapt to all the new things Boxer (and people like him) will throw at it. And every patch will give Boxer a little more room. My guess is Boxer has at least a year or two of "imba!" patches to exploit, and then another year as the metagame is mapped out. But, I still think Nada > Boxer in SC2 circa 2010, because Nada >> Boxer in BW, circa 2009. There's just nothing quite like perfect SC:BW macro. There's just no comparison between something like Steppes of War or Metalopolis and the utterly massive maps of ICCUP BW. Put Nada in SC2, and he starts out-expanding zerg 30% of the time. FWIW. | ||
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malaan
365 Posts
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
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HomicidaL
United States283 Posts
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intergalactic
Canada428 Posts
On October 30 2010 06:09 YMCApylons wrote: A: If Terran gets weakened again I might go random. As a terran player, I am willing to embrace the nerfhammer in order for something like this to happen. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On October 30 2010 14:01 Vz0 wrote: yeah lets just ban everyone who disagrees or has a different opinion than you of "good" It has nothing to do with opinions, you don't question the emperor or talk down on him. | ||
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Samus
Australia47 Posts
On October 30 2010 15:55 HomicidaL wrote: Imo...Terran need to use more units other then just the bio ball. Ravens need to be used much more often...I really think once raven become popular they will be considered OP...the unit is amazing I don't think anyone gets the point WE HAVE TO USE IT OTHERWISE THE ZERG AND PROTOSS WILL EXPAND AND MASS UP and beat us quicker. Basically as Terran you must delay and stop the inevitable of you losing by pressuring the zerg and protoss and keeping them in check. Note what Nada did was every time the zerg expanded, nada had already expanded making sure he was on even footing with his zerg enemy and also kept harassing him with drops, timing attacks and what not to ensure that he could not mass up and beat him. You need to these drops or timing attacks to ensure that their macro does not get out of hand. If you leave a protoss or zerg for 15 minutes, their clump > your clump. Boxer is not saying that Terran is Underpowered but he is saying that the way that the terran has to play is a problem because games will have to either end in 15 minutes or lower or the Terran will simply lose. | ||
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