EPT1.1.2 void ray vs 1.1.1 void ray damage - Page 3
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Grond
599 Posts
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T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
Anyways I saw Inca win a game with 7 of them but honestly if i need a critical mass of like 6 vrs to start killing things I probably will die before they get out. Maybe after like 2/3 bases a pack of vrs with speed can be the new muta flock that lets toss expand/contain but I need to try it out some more. | ||
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DminusTerran
Canada1337 Posts
Interceptor (approx): 3.3 DPS, 3.3 DPS/supply Mothership (lol): 8.1 DPS, 1.0 DPS/supply Umm the mothership numbers are wrong and the Interceptor dps per supply makes no sense :\. | ||
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roliax
135 Posts
On October 28 2010 11:46 Grond wrote: Video is ridiculous Did he really think nobody realized VR did a little more damage uncharged? Spreadsheet is purposely misleading by ending the chart just a few seconds after VR is charged. Everybody knew you needed to pre-charge the Void Ray for it to be effective in 1x1. VR went from a poorly designed niche unit to a useless unit. It was nerfed for large multiplayer games which I agree was a problem but as the saying goes don't piss on my head and tell me its raining. Just because you know something doesn't mean everyone else does. The video was an informative video, not a campaign to change the void ray or make a case for/agaisnt it. You're implying the bias on your own. He stopped the chart at the point where the total damage by the old void ray > that of the new void ray and makes the point that "at this time, the cumulative damage is higher on the old void ray" hence it is redundant to show any more. Here's a better argument: the point he FAILED to make is that the old void ray's pre-charged damage was rarely, if ever, actually used to damage anything useful (rocks, depots, own units, pylons). At the time when the old void ray attacks its first target, it is already fully charged thus nullifying that entire chart. Therefore, it is the dps and not the cumulative damage that actually matters (at least in the way that the VR used to be used). | ||
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Hoju
United States449 Posts
On October 28 2010 11:46 Grond wrote: Spreadsheet is purposely misleading by ending the chart just a few seconds after VR is charged. No, he just ends it at the point when the 1.1.1 VR has done more damage than the 1.1.2 VR. It shows that from when it starts attacking, the 1.1.2 VR does more damage than the 1.1.1 VR until about 12 or 12.6 seconds depending on whether the target is armored or not (assuming it is attacking one unit/building the whole time). It's pretty obvious that the 1.1.1 VR will do much more damage than the 1.1.2 VR from that point on due to its higher dps. | ||
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SaDGoWu
United States133 Posts
Honestly i wish blizzard would be honest to Protoss players and actually post the "imbalance" they found and why a 40% nerf brought us closer to a balanced game, as well as if it was imbalanced, I wish they would just remove the unit from the game because it;s kind of depressing to have useless units sitting in your production facility (not that i'de ever go stargate now anyway). Anyway, looking forward to that Psi storm nerf coming up -.- t t | ||
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Kpyolysis32
553 Posts
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Grond
599 Posts
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
Good players who charge their void rays before they attack do much less dmg now | ||
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TheFinalWord
Australia790 Posts
On October 28 2010 15:31 Grond wrote: It does a whopping 13 extra damage over 13 seconds vs non-armored. Hooray. nice buff? On the other hand: It does a whopping 65 damage over 13 seconds vs armoured. Hooray! nice buff! | ||
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inFeZa
Australia556 Posts
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On October 28 2010 08:11 KevinIX wrote: Ah. That was a nice analysis. I was wondering whether the change was an overall buff or a nerf. I guess 42 dps was rather ridiculous. This change definitely made void rays a little bit more useful as part of the main army, like in the oGsInCa v TankboyPrime game. and inca would have lost if tankboy scouted better, both times. | ||
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
On October 28 2010 15:07 SaDGoWu wrote: What someone should really do is make a video comparing how long a Pre Patch void ray takes to kill an ultralisk/thor/bc and compared to how long a Post Patch void Ray takes to kill these units that the Void Ray was specifically designed to kill. Alot of that 41 dps is mitigated by the high armor of the units they were designed to counter. Honestly i wish blizzard would be honest to Protoss players and actually post the "imbalance" they found and why a 40% nerf brought us closer to a balanced game, as well as if it was imbalanced, I wish they would just remove the unit from the game because it;s kind of depressing to have useless units sitting in your production facility (not that i'de ever go stargate now anyway). Anyway, looking forward to that Psi storm nerf coming up -.- t t this | ||
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Grond
599 Posts
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Midnight70
United States9 Posts
I feel that post-1.1.2 void ray sneak attacks are like terran medivac drops; they will still do damage to your base but you can deal with them (ex: my blink stalkers now stand a chance vs charged VR's). IMO I welcome the change and I think more people will use them in their army composition now instead of a gimmicky "haha I win" crafty build. | ||
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NikonTC
United Kingdom418 Posts
As it is, I got utterly slaughtered by an early stalker/voidray push in a tournament last night. I watched the replay and was impressed by how strong a push it was. Basically if you weren't already going at least 2rax then you're in a huge amount of trouble. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On October 28 2010 16:01 Grond wrote: Tested a Void Ray vs a BC with upgraded armor. The Void Ray died with the BC at 78% health(did not use yamato obviously) Against 8 Phoenixes the BC won while still at half health. 3 BC's being repaired beat 12 Void Rays with no losses. Tested 5 Battlecruisers vs. 7 Void Rays (even costs, imagine that), Void Rays win with 2 VRs left. Blind unit tests are stupid, and blind unit tests where you give the Terran arbitrary advantages in 3 different tests are even stupider. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
On October 28 2010 10:13 Piousflea wrote: The VR still does decent damage compared to other air units. The nerf only majorly harms the voidray for VR vs Battlecruiser fights (which BCs now win even more easily thanks to yamato). Void Ray Damage does not suck: Phoenix (vs Light): 18.2 DPS, 9.1 DPS/supply VR (Charged, vs Armored): 26.7 DPS, 8.9 DPS/supply Viking (vs Armored): 14.0 DPS, 7.0 DPS/supply Banshee: 19.2 DPS, 6.4 DPS/supply BL + 11 Broodling melees: 25.6 DPS, 6.4 DPS/supply BC (vs Ground): 35.6 DPS, 5.9 DPS/supply VR (Charged, vs Unarmored): 13.3 DPS, 4.4 DPS/supply Mutalisk + 2 bounces: 8.5 DPS, 4.3 DPS/supply Corruptor (vs Massive): 11.6 DPS, 3.9 DPS/supply Interceptor (approx): 3.3 DPS, 3.3 DPS/supply Mothership (lol): 8.1 DPS, 1.0 DPS/supply For comparison's sake, the highest DPS/supply ground units in the game (Not counting special abilities). None of them are capable of attacking air. Crackling: 8.6 DPS, 17.2 DPS/supply Reaper (vs Light): 16.4 DPS, 16.4 DPS/supply Zergling: 7.2 DPS, 14.4 DPS/supply Dark Templar: 26.6 DPS, 13.3 DPS/supply The pre-patch charged voidray did 41.7 DPS to armored, or 13.9 DPS/supply. That's higher DPS than a dark templar, but with long range and ability to hit both ground + air. the last line really sums up why it had to be rebalanced nobody mentions the flux vanes nerf either, they were much too mobile | ||
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Varth
United States426 Posts
Terran have dropship play with marines marauders thors helions, helion runbys, banshee harass, siege tanks on ledges above expos, raven turret mineral lines, and technically still have reapers though that is weak now. Zerg has speedling runbys, baneling traps, baneling drops, infestor burrowing, roach burrowing, muta harass and of course nidus. I personally want more fun things to do as protoss, instead of just plain macro up and make a big army (dont get me wrong protoss is strong in that aspect) and defend the entire damn game until i finally have a large army. Every single game for the first 10minutes is me on the permanent defense againt terran, trying to timing push (not harass, you have to commit a bunch of units) against zerg. We have no small things we can be doing on the side beyond better macro and better defense, beyond scouting. Keep in mind this is assuming high level play | ||
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guitarizt
United States1492 Posts
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