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On November 12 2010 00:23 Spiegel wrote:The voidray is the highest DPS FOR FOOD unit in the game. that is a strong niche to have. Ok well it may not be true  I read that somewhere and it sounded true enough. I would love for someone to correct me with proof.
^ what? no. pretty sure a stimmed marine is.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marine
6 damage for 1 food every .57 seconds.
that's 10.52 damage per second on average, * 3 marines = 31.5~ damage per second approx.
Void ray:
Against non-armored targets
Stage 1: 6(+1) dmg / 0.6sec = 10.00 dps (+1.67 per upgrade)
Stage 3: 8(+1) dmg / 0.6sec = 13.33 dps (+1.67 per upgrade)
Against armored targets
Stage 1: 10(+1) dmg / 0.6sec = 16.67 dps (+1.67 per upgrade)
Stage 3: 16(+2) dmg / 0.6sec = 26.67 dps (+3.33 per upgrade)
So even against a void ray's optimal target at stage 3 charge, marine still out dps's. and marine costs soooooo much less.
cracklings actually might be higher dps / per food
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On November 12 2010 00:23 Spiegel wrote:The voidray is the highest DPS FOR FOOD unit in the game. that is a strong niche to have. Ok well it may not be true I read that somewhere and it sounded true enough. I would love for someone to correct me with proof.
I believe that still belongs to the Stimmed Marine.
Something retarded like 11dps and each +1 adds another 2dps.
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On November 12 2010 00:44 Jermstuddog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 00:23 Spiegel wrote:The voidray is the highest DPS FOR FOOD unit in the game. that is a strong niche to have. Ok well it may not be true I read that somewhere and it sounded true enough. I would love for someone to correct me with proof. I believe that still belongs to the Stimmed Marine. Something retarded like 11dps and each +1 adds another 2dps.
What really? The Crackling doesn't beat the marine in terms of DPS/Food? Really?
Well certainly the Baneling does. Kind of hard to beat Infinity.
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On November 12 2010 00:23 Spiegel wrote:The voidray is the highest DPS FOR FOOD unit in the game. that is a strong niche to have. Ok well it may not be true I read that somewhere and it sounded true enough. I would love for someone to correct me with proof.
Not trou in the slightest.
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What really? The Crackling doesn't beat the marine in terms of DPS/Food? Really?
Actually it definitely does. With the adrenal upgrade, Zerglings attack once every .587 seconds, which comes out to 1.7 attacks per second per Zergling.
Zerglings do 5(+1) damage per an attack. 5*1.7 is 8.5 dps per Zerglins. Since Zerglings are only .5 food, that means they do 17 dps per 1 food. Each upgrade adds 3.4 dps per 1 food.
However...
Zerglins are incredibly low hp and melee only. Typically, they will die faster than marines, and fewer of them will be able to attack at once, and they are less versatile.
So yes, in theory Cracklings are the highest dps per food in the game by far. However, in practice it doesn't actually play out that way since attacking with 100% of your Ling force simultaneously is very hard to do, focus firing is much harder than with marines, and the Lings will be dying off very quickly.
edit:
and hell, if you're gonna go that far...
Banelings are 20 dps splash per .5 food, or 40 dps for every 1 food. So they are the highest dps per food unit in the game (not counting non-food units like Broodlings and Infested Terrans). However, they only get one attack.
Basically, dps/food is a really, really reductive way to analyze units that ignores a ton of other important factors.
But this is getting OT...
Back to topic.
As Plexa points out, Void Rays are terrific against Zerg Hive Tech, and none of the Zerg counters are especially effective. Hydras die if you blow on them hard, Corruptors suck against Voids, Mutas are too expensive to be cost efficient except in large numbers, and if you use your Voids to force them to pull their mutas away from their main army then you've already severely hurt the Zerg player. Plus, since the patch Voids are excellent harass tools in the same mold as mutas. That is, they do decent damage up front, so even without worrying about getting charge you can just dart in, deal some damage and leave before they get past your shields. It forces your opponent to builds mutas/corruptors and then separate them from their main force, without using them for harassment (if a Zerg player is building mutas and can't use them either with his army or to harass their opponent, they are not happy campers), or they build Hydras, which just suck regardless.
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1 void ray is still able to kill 1 queen. I don't think dps changes make much of a different. 1 void ray can still take down 1 hatchery pretty fast.
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can't remember the last time I used Void Rays
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On November 11 2010 20:52 Friend23 wrote:
Also I have a question to You and if You or somebody else who know the numbers could answer me I would be thankful.
In current patch, with no damage upgrades, the damage is as follows:
L1 = 6 +4 to armored
L2 = 6 +4 to armored
L3 = 8 +8 to armored
(I figured it out out of the chart in the vid)
But how exactly does it change for +1 air, for +2 air, for +3 air? heard somewhere than +1 gives a difference so that L2 has higher damage than L1.
If somebody could clearly answer what is the damage on each level for each damage upgrade, it would be great.
so nobody knows how it exactly is?
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Hyrule19200 Posts
On November 12 2010 00:41 DuneBug wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 00:23 Spiegel wrote:The voidray is the highest DPS FOR FOOD unit in the game. that is a strong niche to have. Ok well it may not be true I read that somewhere and it sounded true enough. I would love for someone to correct me with proof. ^ what? no. pretty sure a stimmed marine is. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Marine6 damage for 1 food every .57 seconds. that's 10.52 damage per second on average, * 3 marines = 31.5~ damage per second approx. Void ray: Against non-armored targets Stage 1: 6(+1) dmg / 0.6sec = 10.00 dps (+1.67 per upgrade) Stage 3: 8(+1) dmg / 0.6sec = 13.33 dps (+1.67 per upgrade) Against armored targets Stage 1: 10(+1) dmg / 0.6sec = 16.67 dps (+1.67 per upgrade) Stage 3: 16(+2) dmg / 0.6sec = 26.67 dps (+3.33 per upgrade) So even against a void ray's optimal target at stage 3 charge, marine still out dps's. and marine costs soooooo much less. cracklings actually might be higher dps / per food
The Void Ray damage in Liquipedia is outdated.
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On November 11 2010 21:05 Woony wrote:Show nested quote +On November 11 2010 20:34 kidd wrote:
Void rays are more useful now than they were before. If you're complaining that you can't hide VRs and autowin if they're not scouted or that they can't kill buildings fast enough now, I feel that your skill level is displayed as low through that opinion. Void rays still kill buildings very fast and the change just makes them more viable in multiple scenarios and probably the more intended scenario by blizzard, to use them to strengthen an army composition.
Previously VRs were either an all in or entirely useless unless you had a good way to charge them meaning they had a limited, very specific use. The dps is clearly lower at charge now, but they're so much more useful now and blend in much better into sc2 as a game now. Since now, you can use them as part of your army to force more anti-air units then while you destroy buildings they get stronger making it harder to approach your army until charge is dead. My opinion is P players should like it more now since it's more versatile as a unit even though it's not as destructive at charge. Voidrays are terrible as a part of a main army, they are expensive, fragile and are terribly cost efficient. The fact that you need to get Stargate tech to get them doesn't help.
Didn't NexGenius use Voidrays as part of his main army early game vs. Terran in one game during GSL2? And he won that game? Guess I'll have to find it. I'm pretty sure it was Nexgenius. If it wasn't him, it was one of the other few toss players that made it somewhat far. It was impressive to watch... I figured Void Rays were useless as a part of your main army just like you, but it was a good show. They really do kill normal ground units at a decent speed now without having to charge.
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How do you charge a Void Ray before it goes in battle?
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Banelings are 20 dps splash per .5 food, or 40 dps for every 1 food. So they are the highest dps per food unit in the game (not counting non-food units like Broodlings and Infested Terrans). However, they only get one attack.
Dude, it's a baneling. It doesn't deal "40 damage every second." Not only is it splash, but it doesn't do "damage per second." All of a Baneling's damage is instantaneous. It has infinite damage per second.
So yes, in theory Cracklings are the highest dps per food in the game by far. However, in practice it doesn't actually play out that way since attacking with 100% of your Ling force simultaneously is very hard to do, focus firing is much harder than with marines, and the Lings will be dying off very quickly.
Okay, good. Because if cracklings didn't beat marines dps/foodwise then zerglings would be ridiculously terrible.
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On November 12 2010 05:29 Electrolyte wrote:
How do you charge a Void Ray before it goes in battle?
Shoot either some destructible rocks, or something you own (a proxy building, a hallucination, an actual unit, whatever.)
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I didn't mind the damage decrease of the ray but I did mind the massive nerf to its speed upgrade. A small nerf was fine, but now the upgrade doesn't feel worth it.
Its also important to note that while the void ray is powerful, its very very expensive to get. Stargates are expensive buildings and take a long time to build so you can't pump out void rays like you can muta or banshees.
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On November 12 2010 05:51 DoubleReed wrote:Show nested quote +Banelings are 20 dps splash per .5 food, or 40 dps for every 1 food. So they are the highest dps per food unit in the game (not counting non-food units like Broodlings and Infested Terrans). However, they only get one attack. Dude, it's a baneling. It doesn't deal "40 damage every second." Not only is it splash, but it doesn't do "damage per second." All of a Baneling's damage is instantaneous. It has infinite damage per second.
How on earth does that prove it has 'infinite' damage per second?
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Ridiculous thesis by video, usage or should I say non usage now tells us that. The whole idea with void rays was to use them charged otherwise they are terribly expensive slow not very effective units even with the "buff" so no one uses them.
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On November 12 2010 09:44 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On November 12 2010 05:51 DoubleReed wrote:Banelings are 20 dps splash per .5 food, or 40 dps for every 1 food. So they are the highest dps per food unit in the game (not counting non-food units like Broodlings and Infested Terrans). However, they only get one attack. Dude, it's a baneling. It doesn't deal "40 damage every second." Not only is it splash, but it doesn't do "damage per second." All of a Baneling's damage is instantaneous. It has infinite damage per second. How on earth does that prove it has 'infinite' damage per second?
Okay, it does 20 damage in one second. But actually it deals all its damage in a half second, so its more like 20 damage in half a second, so thats 40 DPS. No wait, it's actually like it deals all its damage in a quarter second, so it should be 80 DPS. etc. etc.
It deals all its damage upfront. It takes no time to deal damage. DPS stands for Damage Per Second. Therefore its DPS is infinite.
It's actually a good reason why banelings was so underrated at first. The fact is that it can neutralize large portions of an army incredibly quickly. Unlike every other unit, it deals all its damage upfront.
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You shouldn't be calculating DPS for banelings anyway. They're a one use unit.
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On November 11 2010 11:54 bobucles wrote:So the general consensus is that the void ray WAS broken. Now it can actually be used at level 1 charge without instantly forfeiting the game. I think the void ray design is still pretty flawed. It's made to destroy large targets, but offers no ability that excels at killing large targets! Most battles are too high paced for the void ray to ramp up, so it never sees its full potential. Multiple void rays actually reduce each other's damage, giving less time for a full charge. The health/DPS of the void ray can not really be balanced against heavy units or light units. If it does crazy damage, it kills everything. If it can't deal heavy damage, it fails at killing large targets. High health and low health don't change that simple fact. Maybe the attack should be shifted to be more +armor at the cost of base damage, but that still makes it good against small armored units. Another option is to change its weapon to +massive and +structure bonus, so it fails against small targets altogether. The acid spores from broodwar made big ships tremble before the swarm. If the void ray provided some sort of stacking debuff, beefy targets would naturally suffer more than small targets. Which is what the void ray SHOULD be doing on the field. The debuff could be armor reduction, it could be a snare, it could reduce the unit's fire rate. Anything of that nature would ruin a large unit, but be pointless to waste on a marine.
Not correct all all. It was nerfed for team game. It was an almost useless unit in 1x1, now it's a completely useless unit. My main issue is its is unbelievably hypocritical to state that charged Void Rays killed stuff too fast but stimmed Marauders are fine.
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I used to be a fan of a Void Ray Harass into a stalker push that gave me a good win % vs terran, however this was due to my terran opponent overcompensating vs void rays and building too many marines and not void ray imba. Now the only time i ever build void rays is for the Lolz when i mothership rush.
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EPT
