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Competent
United States406 Posts
ZvT and ZvP will remain largely unchanged while the balance issues in TvP will only be made worse, terran will now be even stronger early and protoss even stronger late in the game. Honestly I don't understand how a race will become stronger after a nerf. I'll say it again, I think Idra is full of shit. | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
On September 25 2010 20:39 Drk_ItachiX wrote: So here are the changes I think need to happen to balance things out: 1) Maurader loses stim - they dont have it in the campaign, i dont know why they need to have it in multiplayer I thought marines were the dps units for Terran and mauraders were designed for support. 2) Concussive Shells require Engineering Bay - the idea here is to slow the bio ball from reaching its full potential so early in the game. It would allow for better scouting by speed zerglings as well. 3) Roach Speed to Tier 1 - just trying to make roaches more effective against hellion rushes and mass mauraders in a bio ball early in the game. 4) Hydralisks - obviously some major changes needed a) Bring their hp to 100 - to help against everything really but particularly against Thor allins w/repair, banshees, tanks as Idra suggested. b) Speed Upgrade - with this Zerg can add another damn good unit to their arsenal and its long overdue tbh From that point Blizzard will just have to see how the Hydralisk gets used in games since it would become a viable option for the Zerg. I confess after playing games post patch I do feel I agree with all, actually not with nerfs for marauders but with SEVERAL buffs for zerg .... | ||
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Dreamscythe
Finland273 Posts
But we cant flame blizzard guys about those changes. there is millions people playing Sc2 not everyone is diamond players so blizz need to adjust game for lower lv players such as i | ||
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IntoTheBush
United States552 Posts
On September 24 2010 10:43 De4ngus wrote: I don't get why Blizzard doesn't realize the problem here is with Zerg. Patching Terran and Protoss doesn't do anything useful. Now tanks can't even be used TvP. I agree, and they are going to be used less in TvT now aswell. The problem DOES lie on Zerg, and they need to patch Zerg and not P or T. As someone said before "Zerg life is hard" lol | ||
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Drk_ItachiX
Japan113 Posts
The thing I have against buffing Zerg too much is that itll throw off ZvP too much. I personally feel that an improved Hyrdalisk would throw things in Zergs favor as it is....so thats why i went for a balance between Terran nerfs and Zerg buffs. | ||
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crappen
Norway1546 Posts
On September 25 2010 20:47 Competent wrote: Honestly I don't understand how a race will become stronger after a nerf. I'll say it again, I think Idra is full of shit. Ah, I see you are the retarded type competent, more like incompetent. Protoss got nerf early game, with increased zealot build time which makes them more vulnerable. Terran late game got nerf, so that protoss lategame will be stronger. And zergs remain largely unchanged, there are still issues. Idra really said it great, that this patch would be very good, if it was 1 month ago. So who is full of shit, you or Idra? | ||
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1Lamb1Rice
United States435 Posts
On September 25 2010 19:05 Devlin wrote: I totally agree about the 'reward on creep > penalty off creep' thing, definitely. But queens are deliberately slow, to keep them as a defensive, production supporting unit. Pretty sure they got slowed due to queen rushes in the beta. I'm totally agreeing with that also. Hydras on the other hand are just too slow off creep, and there is not really a valid reason for it imo. They are quite expensive at lair tech and 100/50, they offer the same dps as 2 marines (yes, without the marines getting killed ofc) and have very low HP. The creep bonus for hydras is a whooping 50%, which is higher than the regular 30% that lings, roaches and most other units get. To me this tells a bit about the design philosophy, which seems to be that hydras are supposed to be a defensive unit. That leads to both our ground-to-air units being defensive, which forces us to go spire if we want to have an offense that can deal with air as well. Zerg doesn't feel very zergy if we just have to sit around and wait until spire, since we can't really move out before that if there's a threat from above, or if we're up against a mobile army (I won't go into the topic of terran drops, that's another huge issue though). Creep should imo be something that the opponent have to worry about. It is easy to prevent creep spread as t or p, but most people don't really have to bother about it. They do it anyway in the later stages of the game (late-mid to late), but I'd love to see a more active approach towards stopping creep. Hydras definitely need a speed increase off creep. Perhaps even keep the on-creep bonus as it is as well. Why would queen rush be a bad thing? It would be an opening that would allow for some creativity and more choices. | ||
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Geiko
France2033 Posts
On September 25 2010 20:47 Competent wrote: Honestly I don't understand how a race will become stronger after a nerf. I'll say it again, I think Idra is full of shit. Zealot cooldown nerf means terran will be stronger early, and tank damage nerf means P will be stronger late game. What's not to understand ? | ||
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Drk_ItachiX
Japan113 Posts
1) Improve Guardian Shield - force field just doesnt do that great of a job against ranged bio balls imo so Id hope this could counter act the improved Terran early game in PvT post patch 1.1 To imporove Terrans position: 1) Ghosts snipe can hit Sentries - allow Ghosts snipe to work against mechanical targets as well so you can snipe the improved sentries (the energy cost for the ability should increase as well). The reason I have this is because I previously suggested a nerf for Mauraders to help out Zerg that I think should stand, so if I am going to buff Sentries, I at least need to make them more vulnerable. 2) Ghosts EMP has lower energy cost - make tanks more effective against things that will def kik their ass without a scratch post patch, like Immortals. This would make late-game PvT a bit easier in general imo. | ||
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curv3
Brazil24 Posts
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Drk_ItachiX
Japan113 Posts
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EnderCN
United States499 Posts
On September 25 2010 21:06 Drk_ItachiX wrote: @ noD The thing I have against buffing Zerg too much is that itll throw off ZvP too much. I personally feel that an improved Hyrdalisk would throw things in Zergs favor as it is....so thats why i went for a balance between Terran nerfs and Zerg buffs. ZvP heavily favors P so I don't see it as an issue. Hydralisk are grossly underpowered. They are arguably weaker than a marine without stim by supply and cost 50 gas to boot. | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
On September 25 2010 20:47 Competent wrote: Honestly I don't understand how a race will become stronger after a nerf. I'll say it again, I think Idra is full of shit. How does a battlecruiser and siege tank nerf make Protoss stronger in lategame PvT? Hmmmmmm.....I have no idea honestly. I guess Idra is full of shit, and you're way more knowledgable than him. Which proteam did you join btw? | ||
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Drk_ItachiX
Japan113 Posts
ah I was under the impression that PvZ was reasonably balanced. What would you guys think of EMP with a cheaper energy cost but requires the player to upgrade it first. I made a list of my proposed changes on the bnet forums under the thread suggestions for Patch 1.2 (Im DrK VoiDX) if you get the time check em out. | ||
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leveller
Sweden1840 Posts
On September 25 2010 22:24 SubtleArt wrote: How does a battlecruiser and siege tank nerf make Protoss stronger in lategame PvT? Hmmmmmm.....I have no idea honestly. I guess Idra is full of shit, and you're way more knowledgable than him. Which proteam did you join btw? I heard idra is on EG at least. I think I heard somewhere tasteless is there as well. | ||
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Grond
599 Posts
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Drk_ItachiX
Japan113 Posts
Tasteless joined EG as the SC2 team manager or something, I dont think he joined as a player. | ||
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EnderCN
United States499 Posts
I think the game is in pretty horrible shape right now and given how long they have been working on it and the changes so far there has to be some bad decision making going on I guess I just disagree. I wasn't expecting a new game to be balanced out of the box or in the first patch though, no other game in the history of RTS ever has been. Patch 1.1 was mostly good changes, there is no reason to lose any faith over it. | ||
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SubtleArt
2710 Posts
On September 25 2010 23:43 EnderCN wrote: I guess I just disagree. I wasn't expecting a new game to be balanced out of the box or in the first patch though, no other game in the history of RTS ever has been. Patch 1.1 was mostly good changes, there is no reason to lose any faith over it. I think the game was at its most balanced state before the infamous 2 supply roach nerf. | ||
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TheKing
Australia186 Posts
On September 25 2010 20:47 Competent wrote: Honestly I don't understand how a race will become stronger after a nerf. I'll say it again, I think Idra is full of shit. Races can still become more powerful overtime even if they are nerfed because players generally keep getting better and better and are able to learn to utilise more of their race's potential. | ||
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