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[VOTE] SC2 Player quality limits in order to post - Page 5

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Talho
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium592 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 19:52:54
September 20 2010 19:51 GMT
#81
I'm just a low diamond, but I think this is a great idea, would atleast get rid of the scrub posts in a good discussion.

there's another site that does this which is Arenajunkies for WoW, only 2.3k+ can post in their discussion forum

and this method works rly works well for AJ.
Zhou
Profile Joined February 2009
United States832 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 19:52:29
September 20 2010 19:51 GMT
#82
I think its a bit silly to divide it up with a sub-forum. It's not to say that those 1200+ points people don't have anything good to say, or people with less than that (if even a point or a larger but less than 1200 amount), but that some advice you get from 1200+ players will not always be applicable to those with less points/higher points because of the opponents you face. That's probably the reason why the forum is the way it is, where it's a lot easier to generalize and create less work. It seems a bit too elitist. Not really directing this at anyone, just my thoughts and what I think.

As for the quality of posts in the forums, yeah... it's not so great, but I creating a sub-forum wouldn't really fix the problem. Just because someone has more than 1200+ points as a diamond player doesn't mean they don't have... silly things to say?

I also want to ask; How do you verify if a person posting on TL has a 1200+ claim? It's probably been asked before already though...
CoL_Fuehrer
Profile Joined August 2009
Russian Federation124 Posts
September 20 2010 19:52 GMT
#83
1000 diamond is around C- level
LZGamer "I can get better at starcraft anytime but as for Idra he cannot change his face"
Squirrel
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1102 Posts
September 20 2010 19:53 GMT
#84
On September 21 2010 04:51 Talho wrote:
I'm just a low diamond, but I think this is a great idea, would atleast get rid of the scrub posts in a good discussion.

there's another site that does this which is Arenajunkies for WoW, only 2.3k+ can post in their discussion forum


The difference is Arenajunkies is full of people who trash on others because they think their gods, and in SC, like I said a minute ago, the ratings inflate. In 2-3 weeks the 'pro' level will be 2300, 2-3 weeks after that 2500, ect.

How are you going to put the req? Change it every few weeks? That would just be a pain in the ass for everyone =\
Reason.SC2
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1047 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 20:05:04
September 20 2010 19:54 GMT
#85
Its a great idea but only if the newbies can still read the forum (but not post).

TL is already bordering unreasonably elitist so making it any less noob-friendly would be a bad move in terms of maximizing membership, broadening community, and just getting hits.

It must be quite a challenge to balance between scaring away any and all new members and keeping the site from turning into a bronze league troll/flamefest.

This said making a forum called rainbow league discussion or something where only the top 5-10% of diamond players can post but everyone can read is a great idea. Implementation could be quite difficult however. Possibly could be done by setting up a way for players to submit a link to their bnet profiles and have a script figure out their ratings and toggle ability to post on this forum based on the current cut-off point whether its a constantly updated rating or a way to sort out their percentile.

This would meet the needs of high levels players to discuss strats without having to prove to some noob that going double evo chambers at 14 into 1 base muta is probably not a good build lol. At the same time the noobs have access to the discussions and can still greatly benefit from high level discussion without being alienated by the TL community.
snpnx
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany454 Posts
September 20 2010 19:54 GMT
#86
make it an invite only forum. with read access. That is a nice idea, and has been discussed before too.
"Language is Freeware, in that it's free to use, but it's not Open Source, so you can't just change things how you like."
Crushgroove
Profile Joined July 2010
United States793 Posts
September 20 2010 19:54 GMT
#87
Its an excellent idea. I and many others would be ecstatic if there was a "really really good players only" forum. But points isn't the way to implement it. 5 weeks ago, 800 diamond was amazing, now its 1500, in a few months it'll be 3k.
[In Korea on Vaca] "Why would I go to the park and climb a mountain? There are video games on f*cking TV!" - Kazuke
Quetz
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom28 Posts
September 20 2010 19:54 GMT
#88
Points totals seems to be such a moving target and not really something you can rely on. Just cos a guy knows one build very well doesn't mean he knows the game :p I'd much rather see some sort of reputation system if you want to create a restricted posting forum.
BlasiuS
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States2405 Posts
September 20 2010 19:55 GMT
#89
Perhaps when the pro league is created, then we can ask this question again.

As it stands now, bonus pool creates a steady increase in rating across the board. 1000 diamond today is not the same as 1000 diamond 3 weeks ago, and it's also not the same as 1000 diamond in another 3 weeks. So there is no way to define a hard cutoff rating currently.
next week on Everybody Loves HypnoToad:
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
September 20 2010 19:56 GMT
#90
lol 500 pts Diamond is below D from iccup. My friend got to 750 pts Diamond and he got stomped by D- in BW. And he's just flat out terrible in SC2, although in reality he was 750 pts last week and has since been demoted back to plat^^.
ltortoise
Profile Joined August 2010
633 Posts
September 20 2010 19:56 GMT
#91
On September 21 2010 04:53 Seam wrote:
How are you going to put the req? Change it every few weeks? That would just be a pain in the ass for everyone =\


It's not just the requirement, it would be actually proving that you meet it. How the hell would you verify somebody is who they say they are? Even if you knew how to do THAT particular aspect, how would you do it so that it didn't take TL staff tons of man-hours?

I mean I already asked this, but I'm still extremely curious how anybody would solve the actual logistics of this.

Seems absurd.
Hikari
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
1914 Posts
September 20 2010 19:57 GMT
#92
A rather controversial move, but will save me forum browsing time on days when I am busy. Putting experienced players in the same room away from the general public may also give them room to raise serious discussion which can help push the game to the next level. I voted yes.
TechDeft
Profile Joined August 2010
United States211 Posts
September 20 2010 19:57 GMT
#93
As a gold level SC2 and shitty level BW player, I'd love to see discussions of an upper tier of quality. Without the flak.

It would be nice if there was a way "unqualified" people could post, but only those who are "qualified" can see them, because sometimes the rest of us do have insightful questions or comments that pros could expand on.
CagedMind
Profile Joined February 2010
United States506 Posts
September 20 2010 19:58 GMT
#94
Yeah I would agree that there is a lack of really good posts. I have thought it would be nice to have separation by what your points are at. I have no idea why the option of preventing people from even reading is there. I think even the lower level people could benefit.

Alternatively you could get people special markings next to their names to show skill lvl then you could know where your taking info from and forbid noobs for arguing with good players.
your micro has been depleted
Koukalaka
Profile Joined August 2010
United Kingdom80 Posts
September 20 2010 19:59 GMT
#95
And how does one track this?

I know the information, and account information, of multiple players who play at 1400-1600~ and I can play any of these accounts [as long as they give me an authenticator code]. I can say I am the owner of account X at A rating, account Y at B rating and account Z at C rating. TL can't disprove this and thus must accept it.

It doesn't work. If you want to use the "example" of Arenajunkies' forum posting, I use other people's accounts to post on that forum too. Ratings don't stop idiots posting, because people who want ratings and make topics such as this are generally idiots.
Vz0
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada378 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 20:01:08
September 20 2010 20:00 GMT
#96
On September 21 2010 04:03 MrBitter wrote:
1200+ is far from pro-gamer. I'm 1300+ and never got past C/C- on ICCUP. I would love to see a sub-forum devoid of total scrubs, though.

does it matter how far you go on C/C-

You can be a modern warfare 2 king of the world but what we are talking about here is Starcaft 2. If you can reach 1300 on starcraft 2 (relative to lets just use select as a refrence point of 1900) then yes you are a "pro" in the casual definition.
You are by no means tournament level pro or global level but a pro none the less.
ShadowWolf
Profile Joined March 2010
United States197 Posts
September 20 2010 20:01 GMT
#97
ArenaJunkies is not a good site on which to base a website - and, really, other websites shouldn't be trying to make themselves similar to AJ. As a case in point, try searching for a strategy for Lock/Shaman/Druid ( LSD ). 9/10 posts in the high-rating section are either trolls or the nonsense about instant-globaling people. Or try to find information on DK/Lock/Druid ( Shadowcleave ) - an unpopular composition that is still played here & there has basically no threads, with quite a few of the posts on the topic coming from people who haven't ever played the team before. It's more difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff because it's difficult to know whether a person has any real experience or is just trollin' you hard. e.g. once I asked for Mage/Lock/Druid ( MLD ) assistance and got "Lol global people" - not to say that MLD is the pinnacle of complexity and skill at all, but it's a lot more involved than that unless you want to sit at the 1800 level all season.

Take, for example:
http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=205545
http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=205572
http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=205446

Nor does having an "elitist" section actually eliminate bad threads as such:
http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=202376
http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=204173

Here's an example where there's a thread having some great replies and some absolutely garbage replies - Just like TL.net's Starcraft 2 strategy section!
http://www.arenajunkies.com/showthread.php?t=203138

Now, granted, every time a pro player posts you get at least some noise of people agreeing or disagreeing just based on it being who it is, but I think Sheth's thread here showed that just 'cuz you haven't won a major tournament doesn't mean you are incapable of contributing:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=133023

A lot of people in that thread pointed out some nuances that either Sheth maybe didn't realize he did or things he could add to the build to make it better. I don't play Zerg, really, so I have absolutely no clue how good the build is - but Sheth's a good player and the post today is better than it was when he first posted it. Maybe all those players are equivalent of 1200 diamond players today, but based on the questions I seriously doubt it.

Plus 1200 isn't exactly the pinnacle of game knowledge. I've beaten players that are in the 1200 point range today that didn't use control groups, didn't rally new units to the fight, and had no capacity to transition even if their all-in kinda worked but didn't totally beat me down. The problem is that writing strategies requires a lot more than just being skilled at the game; I think there are probably people in the 1700 and higher ratings that would be the worst person ever to give you advice.

It's really challenging to communicate game sense, timings, and thought processes. It takes a very particular set of skills that most of the high level community ( quite frankly ) doesn't appear to posses. You can most assuredly be the greatest player in the world but have no real capacity to teach anyone to get even out of Gold - sometimes people just can't empathize with someone who doesn't have the skillset and knowledge they have. To be honest, it's perfect fine, but it doesn't help build a solid community.
Khanz
Profile Joined April 2010
France214 Posts
September 20 2010 20:01 GMT
#98
Im a complete newbie and I really enjoy the idea.
Don't worry, zombies eat brains. You're safe
ScarletKnight
Profile Joined August 2010
United States691 Posts
September 20 2010 20:02 GMT
#99
I like this idea in theory, in the sense that you can have a high-level-only posting section that can be read by lower leagues.

The logistics of it may be difficult but if it can work then it would be helpful to the whole community. Being a Silver league player myself I know I could definitely benefit from high-level strategy discussion that doesn't get messed up by people from lower-leagues butting their own opinions in.

You could do it on a request basis where members PM mods their bnet account or a timestamped screenshot of their in-game profile, then the mods grant posting access to the forum. I don't know how much of a hassle for the mods that would be, but it is probably the simplest way to get it done.
Looks like I picked the wrong week the quit sniffing glue
Talho
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium592 Posts
September 20 2010 20:02 GMT
#100
On September 21 2010 04:53 Seam wrote:

How are you going to put the req? Change it every few weeks? That would just be a pain in the ass for everyone =\


I dont see much of a problem in that :x maybe there's a cap on the ratings, who knows ?


I personally dont see this as less noob-friendly. Cuz as a noob you cant even differ the good posts between the bad posts. That's a problem I atleast had when I was a bigger noob then now.
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