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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On September 21 2010 10:02 MythicalMage wrote: Raelcun doesn't know the game? JoshSuth doesn't know the game? You can't make generalizations like that. I like their casting but I dont know if i would take strategic advice from either of them | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On September 21 2010 10:08 Butigroove wrote: Please, let me direct you to this http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=137693 This is never going to happen. How in the world would tl verify that your account is 1200? Battle.net Teamliquidbook integration 2.0? I don't see the point in the link, if it was an argument. If it was an agreement, then I, of course, agree. But yeah, it's super impractical. Even the ranking sites like SC2Ranks aren't that accurate. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On September 21 2010 10:12 mOnion wrote: I like their casting but I dont know if i would take strategic advice from either of them This isn't about strategic advice, it's about understanding of the game. That's what most of the controversy is about: people don't want some noob with no understanding butting into their elitist conversation. I'm arguing that rank doesn't necessarily correlate to understanding. | ||
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leve15
United States301 Posts
On September 21 2010 10:10 MythicalMage wrote: [ Being good at the game doesn't mean you're a game designer, so stop pretending it does. QFT. You don't have to be good at the game to know about the game. How many football coaches actually played the game on a professional level? baskteball? baseball? any sport? the fact is, a love (therefore knowledge) of the game does not correspond to a knack for it. | ||
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lyAsakura
United States1414 Posts
On September 21 2010 10:09 PeT[uK] wrote: This goes against so much of what TL is all about..... I know, huh. Pretty retarded crowd SC2 brought in, and not just the people OP was complaining about. And 1200 is nowhere near C, lol. I'm like D and got 1000 diamond easy. | ||
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blue_arrow
1971 Posts
Even if you had a heavily-modded open forum that had perfect etiquette and thoughtful posts abound, all bronze player posts would likely only have an element of "political correctness" that is unsupported by high-level experience. High-level players' posts would have a quality of "practical correctness" backed by deep experience. Let me put it this way, there is almost no way for a well-moderated forum of individuals with extreme dedication to lose out against an also well-moderated forum of people who are only casually dedicated to the game. I mean, just look at the average poster of TL (who is already more dedicated to the game than the average player) compared to other SC sites with casual posters who have much less of a passion for the game. As for the practical considerations for this sub-forum: Don't make the cutoff list by ladder points; instead, make the cutoff a top percentile or percent (depending on what the skill level distribution looks like) of the global rankings. Something like the global top 200 would be a good start. This is to avoid having to frequently adjust the cutoff as a result of point inflation/deflation. Afterwards, add onto the list any well-recognized, subjectively determined VIPs who should have a place in the sub-forum's discussions. With the same reasoning, remove from the list any known abusers/hackers or any players who do not have the same merit (i.e. players who rely completely on the same cheese strategy every game to attain the cutoff). Player's who have been admitted into the sub-forum, but then fall below the cutoffs later on, should be allowed to stay on for a period of time before having their posting permissions removed. The players would either have to re-attain the cutoff or demonstrate in some other way that they still have the relevant knowledge to participate in the forum with other current top players. As with any other forum on TL, quality moderation would be in place, although I expect that the need for moderation would be less in this type of sub-forum. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
On September 21 2010 10:14 leve15 wrote: QFT. You don't have to be good at the game to know about the game. How many football coaches actually played the game? baskteball? baseball? any sport? the fact is, a love (therefore knowledge) of the game does not correspond to a knack for it. That's what I've been saying. XDDD. That argument was more aimed at balance threads, but often that's what threads degenerate into. | ||
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leve15
United States301 Posts
some people are truly retarded. | ||
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Dommk
Australia4865 Posts
On September 21 2010 10:10 MythicalMage wrote: Look at the forums now. More often than not it opens with "I'm #### Diamond, and I think x" Most often, you already have what you're looking for and it doesn't help. Being good at the game doesn't mean you're a game designer, so stop pretending it does. No one has said anything about being a good designer. Being good at the game gives you a pretty good understanding of the game, enough so that you can contribute in a meaningful way to a discussion. | ||
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Gingerninja
United Kingdom1339 Posts
On September 21 2010 10:14 leve15 wrote: QFT. You don't have to be good at the game to know about the game. How many football coaches actually played the game on a professional level? baskteball? baseball? any sport? the fact is, a love (therefore knowledge) of the game does not correspond to a knack for it. A good portion of football (soccer) managers worldwide are ex-players. in a lot of ways its beneficial, but it does come with hyped expectations straight out the gate, hence so many people fail at it. | ||
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Kalingingsong
Canada633 Posts
QFT. You don't have to be good at the game to know about the game. How many football coaches actually played the game on a professional level? baskteball? baseball? any sport? the fact is, a love (therefore knowledge) of the game does not correspond to a knack for it. "Hi guys, I have never personally invested in the stock market and made any money, but you should take investing advice from me." hmm... its possible I guess... but I rather just listen to someone who has done actual investing. | ||
NonY
8748 Posts
On September 21 2010 06:27 Archerofaiur wrote: Whats wrong with "no I dont agree with that and I dont think most other people do either" and move on? I think verbalizing that the guy should go get fucked is an excellent way to start a flame war, waste more of your time, and bring down the quality of the thread. They're both disrespectful but one is vulgar and the other isn't. I don't think anyone really gives a shit about vulgarity around here. So really those two options send the same message: your idea is so bad that I'm not even going to bother explaining why it's bad. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
qxc and friends aren't going to post on exclusive forums either. That's because they're always DEAD. Nobody posts in these, because if high level players want to talk to each other THEY JUST DO IT. They can contact each other whenever they want! Why would they post in a tiny forum that nobody is to bothering write for when they could just open a chat window? The reason the rest of us have forums is because we don't know who shares the interests that would drive them to... this forum. Whereas high level gamers don't have this issue. The OP's idea is just dumb... | ||
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leve15
United States301 Posts
On September 21 2010 10:18 Gingerninja wrote: A good portion of football (soccer) managers worldwide are ex-players. in a lot of ways its beneficial, but it does come with hyped expectations straight out the gate, hence so many people fail at it. I meant american football, for clarity. However, my point stands. Wayne Gretzky isn't coaching anywhere. Michael Jordan? Troy Aikman? TL has always been elitist, which is why it took me seven (7!) years to finally make an account, but this suggestion is honestly beyond anything I could even imagine suggesting. It's called Liquipedia, morans! | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On September 21 2010 09:12 mOnion wrote: what makes you think higher level gamers would even wanna post in this forum? this seems like a lot of "can you guys post your strats for me so I dont have to practice" talk Great point. If it was made the subforum would be devoid of real "pros." Having access to all of their BOs and replays is too much as it is. Creating a forum where everyone would come and hawk out their strats is asking far too much. | ||
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leve15
United States301 Posts
Here's to this thread ending very shortly. | ||
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kzn
United States1218 Posts
On September 21 2010 10:10 MythicalMage wrote: Being good at the game doesn't mean you're a game designer, so stop pretending it does. You're wrong. You're right in that it doesn't make you capable of making a commercially successful game, but it sure as fuck makes you capable (or more capable, at least) of making a competitively balanced game, if you really want to. If you're a game designer and you want to know how to make, say, PvP less defined by warpgate play while not massively impacting PvT and PvZ, how the fuck are you going to make that decision? You ask someone who's right at the top of the competitive scene in PvX, because they're the only ones who have a strong and instinctive understanding of how each matchup plays out and why. You don't get good at this game without understanding how it works in competition. | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
On September 21 2010 05:08 TechDeft wrote: But just WATCHING this kind of conversation can be so educational. We don't know everything, neither do they, but by discussing it, they can come to much more meaningful conclusions than someone with 25 games under their belt who's trying to argue that an Ultra rush is a viable early game Zerg strat. *going back to the dawing board*  | ||
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hellokitty[hk]
United States1309 Posts
500pt Diamonds. so.... whats that C or lower in ICCUP? Thats like D/D-. | ||
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EchOne
United States2906 Posts
In any case, I just want to stress to anyone who may be reading and not be aware... that iCCup is truly, veritably, demonstrably hard as hell. People used to make entire blogs about ranking up once, and most of those were from people finally attaining D+ or C-. Many of them sported 200+ apm, hours of study on builds and replays, and hours more of watching pro-games. The skill stratification is so deep that every rank is defended by a substantial mechanics and game sense barrier. So please don't make silly guesses as to your hypothetical iCCup rank. Not only are such guesses irrelevant to SC2 discussion, they're usually unjustified. At least experience the climb to D+ and taste how insanely difficult iCCup is first. | ||
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