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[VOTE] SC2 Player quality limits in order to post - Page 14

Forum Index > SC2 General
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branflakes14
Profile Joined July 2010
2082 Posts
September 20 2010 23:50 GMT
#261
Great! I'll just link my TL account to a high ranked player and bam, I can post.
yomi
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
United States773 Posts
September 20 2010 23:50 GMT
#262
I think 1200 is a little tough. You need about 1220 to be in the top 1,000 in north america so that is really a very small group of players you're talking about. Lowering it down to 1,000 makes for about 5k eligible players who can post, still not very many. I would do maybe 6-800+ or diamond only and then a separate forum for the top 500 or 1000ladder players and all tournament players (not all players that play live tourneys do this for a living). mandatory linking to a profile would be fine, maybe even a welcome edition.

i doubt this will happen as it segregates the community too much. I think TL admins would be fine with a high profile players only forum but probably wouldn't split out 10% of the community away from the others and hold them up like they are too good to speak to anyone else.

That's not my opinion, but I think it's how a lot of TL admins think. Myself, I am used to posting on 2+2 a lot and I really like the way they split up the forums by stakes (it's a poker forum). The game is really very different in different skill levels. Strategies or balances that are true at one skill level do not hold at others.
TrevorJK
Profile Joined May 2009
United States77 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-20 23:52:07
September 20 2010 23:51 GMT
#263
Good posts can come from anyone, and bad posts can from anyone. Theres no need for a forum that requires a certain rating. Good players can be wrong and good players can be right. "Good" players may also not be good. It is up to you as members of the community to report posts that are bad and make sure those posters get warned/banned.

Since people are using AJ and EJ as examples, I'll continue those. ArenaJunkies has a rating requirement to post and the forum has basically become an incessant shit pool of posts that is now just cliques and random shitty posts and whining, little moderation for quality posting. Elitist Jerks on the other hand has no requirements to post, as long as you make a quality post,you wont get reported by the community. You can now get all the information you need for raiding and optimization on the site.

There is no definitive line that would just make a board good. It is up to members to report bad posts and moderators to ban the bad posters. Eventually you'll make progress and get a decent board as a result.
CrazyF1r3f0x
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2120 Posts
September 20 2010 23:53 GMT
#264
The amount of points you have on a ladder means nothing, same with what league you are in. Doesn't it say that somewhere in the posting rules anyway?
"Actual happiness always looks pretty squalid in comparison with the overcompensations for misery."
MythicalMage
Profile Joined May 2010
1360 Posts
September 20 2010 23:54 GMT
#265
I'd definitely like it, for reading the posts and whatnot. Perhaps have a way to hide lower ranked players post like the spam hiding feature on youtube and the like? That way, if you wanted to wade in the murk, so to speak, you could.
ironchef
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
Canada1350 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 00:03:17
September 21 2010 00:01 GMT
#266
I am not really anti-elitist, but I think it's a bad idea. I think you are overestimating 1200 diamond's a) skill b) understanding of the game c) ability to communicate them clearly and without bias. d)ability to bypass checks. What I'm saying saying is you will still get the usual sc2 forum crap. You might gain a bit, but at the cost of alienating people and undermining the other forums.

The latter is generally why I dont think special forums will ever happen, but I think I'd rather see something like Featured strategy writers/posters, or something to feature people with a record of quality strategy posts. I sort of do this mentally already, and skip certain people and look out for certain people in discussions. I dont know the implementation specifics, but something in that direction is probably more realistic.

edit: just to be clear - I am not opposed to it, but I dont see it happening because it won't be a big improvement given the downsides.
“Because your own strength is unequal to the task, do not assume that it is beyond the powers of man; but if anything is within the powers and province of man, believe that it is within your own compass also.” - Marcus Aurelius
MythicalMage
Profile Joined May 2010
1360 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 00:03:09
September 21 2010 00:02 GMT
#267
On September 21 2010 09:01 ironchef wrote:
I am not really anti-elitist, but I think it's a bad idea. I think you are overestimating 1200 diamond's a) skill b) understanding of the game c) ability to communicate them clearly and without bias. d)ability to bypass checks. What I'm saying saying is you will still get the usual sc2 forum crap. You might gain a bit, but at the cost of alienating people and undermining the other forums.

The latter is generally why I dont think special forums will ever happen, but I think I'd rather see something like Featured strategy writers/posters, or something to feature people with a record of quality strategy posts. I sort of do this mentally already, and skip certain people and look out for certain people in discussions. I dont know the implementation specifics, but something in that direction is probably more realistic.

Yep. I believe it was IdrA who said, "I'm not a game designer; I don't know how to balance the game, just that it needs fixing." or something to that effect.
Medzo
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States627 Posts
September 21 2010 00:03 GMT
#268
On September 21 2010 08:51 Titan48 wrote:
Good posts can come from anyone, and bad posts can from anyone. Theres no need for a forum that requires a certain rating. Good players can be wrong and good players can be right. "Good" players may also not be good. It is up to you as members of the community to report posts that are bad and make sure those posters get warned/banned.

Since people are using AJ and EJ as examples, I'll continue those. ArenaJunkies has a rating requirement to post and the forum has basically become an incessant shit pool of posts that is now just cliques and random shitty posts and whining, little moderation for quality posting. Elitist Jerks on the other hand has no requirements to post, as long as you make a quality post,you wont get reported by the community. You can now get all the information you need for raiding and optimization on the site.

There is no definitive line that would just make a board good. It is up to members to report bad posts and moderators to ban the bad posters. Eventually you'll make progress and get a decent board as a result.


But we can have both moderation and requirements. I don't see why so many people fail to see this.
MythicalMage
Profile Joined May 2010
1360 Posts
September 21 2010 00:04 GMT
#269
On September 21 2010 09:03 Medzo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2010 08:51 Titan48 wrote:
Good posts can come from anyone, and bad posts can from anyone. Theres no need for a forum that requires a certain rating. Good players can be wrong and good players can be right. "Good" players may also not be good. It is up to you as members of the community to report posts that are bad and make sure those posters get warned/banned.

Since people are using AJ and EJ as examples, I'll continue those. ArenaJunkies has a rating requirement to post and the forum has basically become an incessant shit pool of posts that is now just cliques and random shitty posts and whining, little moderation for quality posting. Elitist Jerks on the other hand has no requirements to post, as long as you make a quality post,you wont get reported by the community. You can now get all the information you need for raiding and optimization on the site.

There is no definitive line that would just make a board good. It is up to members to report bad posts and moderators to ban the bad posters. Eventually you'll make progress and get a decent board as a result.


But we can have both moderation and requirements. I don't see why so many people fail to see this.

The issue is, who will the moderation focus more on: the lower ranked players or the higher ranked? The thought would be that they would be given more leeway and special treatment.
NeVeR
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
1352 Posts
September 21 2010 00:05 GMT
#270
On September 21 2010 04:26 VonLego wrote:
An issue with the "idra/lzgamer/huk" level only forum -- Very small group of folks who have the least to gain and most to lose by discussing strategy online. I could be totally off here but that is what I'd think.


This is a great point.
beetlelisk
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Poland2276 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 00:10:53
September 21 2010 00:09 GMT
#271
I don't know if someone wrote about it - IMO the real problem with the idea of separate sub forum is what would happen to the current SC2 strategy subforum. It could become so bad it would be better to just close it and leave the invite / 1200+ diamond only subforum.
Also, how many invites there would have to be to make it big enough, with good discussions happening daily? There is no point to it if there won't be much going on most of the time.

I think TL Attack, Liquipedia articles news, GSL News and Tournament Roundups news with all of their replays and VODs already serve the purpose that maybe could be achieved with separate subforum.
That's why I also agree with this:

On September 21 2010 06:15 bonifaceviii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2010 06:09 Seam wrote:
Instead of a "You must be this tall to ride" forum, why not one subforum for Strat/balance discussion that is heavily, heavily modded. In that one anyone who posts something non-constructive or flat out wrong will get punished.

The end would be almost the same as this, but you wouldn't kick out people who may just be unlucky in getting promoted, but know the game. You would still get more quality posts this way.

I agree with this.

Netwars.pl in general uses [kkd] tags* for threads where OP wants no morons and trolls to show up.
It makes up for moderation not as strict and sophisticated as that on TL.

*[kkd] is a shortcut of "kacik kulturalnej dyskusji" which (roughly?) means "cultural discussion corner".
I think [hdo] as in "high diamond only" would suit SC2 strategy. Those threads would still be accessible by all users or by all users who added their BN id to their TL profile. Making any statements in those threads while not being high in diamond could be grounds for a ban or warning.
wwww
coltrane
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Chile988 Posts
September 21 2010 00:09 GMT
#272
I think we (everyone in the community) should be supporting mods in the strat forum

So leave it how it is and start being mature posters.
Jävla skit
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
September 21 2010 00:11 GMT
#273
This months 1200 is next months 700s - you get like 500pts a month. The "cuttoff" would have to be ever moving.
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5660 Posts
September 21 2010 00:12 GMT
#274
what makes you think higher level gamers would even wanna post in this forum?

this seems like a lot of "can you guys post your strats for me so I dont have to practice" talk
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
Armsved
Profile Joined May 2010
Denmark642 Posts
September 21 2010 00:12 GMT
#275
On September 21 2010 09:09 coltrane wrote:
I think we (everyone in the community) should be supporting mods in the strat forum

So leave it how it is and start being mature posters.


If only the world was this simple
YOOO
tok
Profile Joined April 2010
United States691 Posts
September 21 2010 00:15 GMT
#276
I always though TLQ being called elitist was just an exaggeration but holy crap. I think I'll take my nerding elsewhere if they enforce something like OP said.
Zack1900
Profile Joined January 2010
United States211 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 00:26:28
September 21 2010 00:22 GMT
#277
The biggest problem I see is segregating the community. Low level players won't get advice from good ones. (who would visit the low level forum if they didn't have to?). That sounds like a way to slowly strangle TL. With fewer new members this site would slowly die. Even during BW this site was picking up members due to the huge amount of knowledge accumulated and healthy discussion. Oh and lets not forget the TL thread about bonus pool point inflation

My suggestion is to have threads, or even individual posts, endorsed by a highly skilled group of individuals that are hand picked to be the best TL has to offer. I'm thinking people who win big tournaments laying down stamps of approval. No fact checking required and if Idra, Morrow, or TLO endorse it it is a good strategy or brings up a valid point.
Dfgj
Profile Joined May 2008
Singapore5922 Posts
September 21 2010 00:24 GMT
#278
I don't mind the idea.

I'd probably not be able to post in it, but I don't need the strategy forum to inflate ego by spamming posts. I want it to have useful information and discussion for me to read, which is negatively impacted by inaccuracy.

Bad players cry elitism, it's the same in every forum.

Sure, good player does not equal good poster, but it's a lot easier to just mod for good posting when the poor content aspect of uninformed/inexperienced players is taken out of the equation.
Ndugu
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1078 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 00:26:07
September 21 2010 00:25 GMT
#279
That would be such motivation to hit 1200+.

Bonus Pool kills it though. So then just a pro/semi-pro forum, invite only.
VanGarde
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden755 Posts
September 21 2010 00:35 GMT
#280
The point system is horrible, there are people with amazing strategcical and theoretical reasoning who are at a lower rating due to not playing so much or just being one of those players with amazing game sense but lacking mechanics. At the same time the 1200 plus are filled with protosses who would not know what to do if they could not 4gate.

Although I would not mind seeing an "elitist" subforum where everyone can read but only the best players can write. It would definitely serve a purpose. But such a subforum needs to be invite only where TL moderators actually decide who gets invited there. That way only players who participate in tournaments and can objectively be seen to be good or players who distinguish themselves through excellent theoretical posts will get invited.
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
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