EPTBlizzard needs to get rid of the match history - Page 11
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shieldbreak
United States406 Posts
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tetracycloide
295 Posts
On September 16 2010 10:19 Jibba wrote: but in this case it favors the worse player who is less likely to win in an honest game. How do you figure that? | ||
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mavfin
United States52 Posts
No need to hide match history. If you're a pro-gamer, you can afford the $60 to buy another account to practice on. If you don't have that $60, then maybe pro-gaming isn't for you, and you should make your money some other way. If you're not a pro-gamer/tournament gamer, what's the problem? Also, if scouting you through match history can hurt you that bad, maybe you're not as good a progamer as you thought? What about scouting in-game and all that other stuff, eh? | ||
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Wolf
Korea (South)3290 Posts
If someone is using the same build order over and over and never changing it up, you'll probably hear about it anyways.That aside, if you change up your build, it'll throw people off who have been looking at your history. In addition, every game should be played with scouting, etcetera. Normally people who complain about this do similar builds game after game and somehow feel like if someone sees it they can 'counter' it. Makes it a fairly unsafe build if someone knowing you're doing something makes you lose. There are so many threads about this... And they all frustrate me. | ||
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Doraemon
Australia14949 Posts
On September 16 2010 03:04 avilo wrote: What this means is b4 any tournament, you can look up your opponent, and study their build order, and know how they are most likely going to play, as well as know the possible counter deviation they may do. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=153120 edit: added poll: i don't see the problem? it's called scouting. they are playing for big money. by the same theory, prosports should not have replays of games so other teams can't determine their weakness. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
Again, in NO PROFESSIONAL SPORTS ARE YOU ALLOWED TO SCOUT PRACTICES. | ||
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tpir
United States53 Posts
]Do I need a baller analogy to make this clear? If both players focus on their own builds during practice, the better player wins. If they specifically scout eachother, either you get a shitfest of a game or if one of them does it, that player should win as long as the skill gap is manageable (say A teamer vs. S class player.) Again, in NO PROFESSIONAL SPORTS ARE YOU ALLOWED TO SCOUT PRACTICES. Yes, you do, because people can already hide their practice with the custom maps and if you are lumping the public ladder games into "practice" well then you are equivocating and have a flawed argument. And comparing this to real-life team sports (again you are conflating with "professional sports") is probably not the best place to start when you look for your new analogy. | ||
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On September 16 2010 11:00 tpir wrote: It's an extra unnecessary measure. Why make top players jump through even more hoops (on top of owning 3 copies of the game) just to prepare for competition?Yes, you do, because people can already hide their practice with the custom maps and if you are lumping the public ladder games into "practice" well then you are equivocating and have a flawed argument. And comparing this to real-life team sports (again you are conflating with "professional sports") is probably not the best place to start when you look for your new analogy. I'm responding to the 50,000 other idiots in this thread who agree with that incorrect post on the first page, comparing it to professional sports. | ||
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tpir
United States53 Posts
It's an extra unnecessary measure. Why make top players jump through even more hoops (on top of owning 3 copies of the game) just to prepare for competition? Oh no doubt. I definitely agree with this. Just having custom games be "off the grid" seems to make the most sense unless blizzard is worried people are all testing out hacked maps  And my bad on the pro sports confusion. I mean there are some parallels since both have competition and practice and what not but I think the poker/chess parallels make more sense. (Could be wrong on all of this though! :D ) | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
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MichaelJLowell
United States610 Posts
And yes, to reiterate what people have been stating: This is not the equivalent of watching a sporting event and using the game footage to scout for tendencies. This is the equivalent of taping practices, which most professional sports look down upon. "But I could watch replays in Warcraft III as well!" But you could also play your weaker hands on the ladder and develop your A-build against your practice partner. The transparency now makes it much more difficult to do that. | ||
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dRaW
Canada5744 Posts
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jiabung
United States720 Posts
On September 16 2010 10:39 Wolf wrote: I like match history. If you want to hide your builds, there are ways. See this thread for example: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=153120 If someone is using the same build order over and over and never changing it up, you'll probably hear about it anyways.That aside, if you change up your build, it'll throw people off who have been looking at your history. In addition, every game should be played with scouting, etcetera. Normally people who complain about this do similar builds game after game and somehow feel like if someone sees it they can 'counter' it. Makes it a fairly unsafe build if someone knowing you're doing something makes you lose. There are so many threads about this... And they all frustrate me. If you KNOW what BO your opponent is practicing then you can design a special BO just to specially counter his. HOW THE FUCK IS THIS FAIR?? Example: I look at Flash's match history and see that he opens 14cc every game on a map. He has planned this strategy out carefully and has lategame transitions and all that. I see this and just 6 pool... Wouldn't BW be so much more awesome if everyone knew what the other person was going to do? The game would just devolve into standard play every game. And no, you wouldn't "hear" about what your opponent is doing if they are practicing with a teammate or friend in a custom game. Do you think pro players practice their BO's on random ladder games and maps? An opponent could just look at your history and see what BO you have been using on what map and against what race. Regarding this, "Makes it a fairly unsafe build if someone knowing [what] you're doing something makes you lose." Opening FE on a map like metal is considered a fairly safe build by zerg on Metal, but if your opponent KNOWS you are going to do this its not safe at all. He can just blind counter it with proxy 2 gates or something. There is nothing the zerg can do in response if his BO is known. | ||
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Cloak
United States816 Posts
You're skewing the results because giving someone more choices has positive connotation to it. It can also be viewed as giving people less choice because less information is available to you when facing an opponent. It's the reason why polls are absolute garbage, since word spin and context accounts for the majority of its leverage. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
On September 16 2010 10:37 mavfin wrote: As was seen with Idra, it's a double-edged sword that can cut both ways. No need to hide match history. If you're a pro-gamer, you can afford the $60 to buy another account to practice on. If you don't have that $60, then maybe pro-gaming isn't for you, and you should make your money some other way. If you're not a pro-gamer/tournament gamer, what's the problem? Also, if scouting you through match history can hurt you that bad, maybe you're not as good a progamer as you thought? What about scouting in-game and all that other stuff, eh? If the feature is bad enough to make people have to buy another copy, why the fuck should it not be optional? The lack of logic here is outstanding. People can use it in any tournament from the GSL down to the bottom, and OF COURSE in a game like Starcraft it matters to see your build. Have you ever even seen pro BW? I'm guessing no since all the people claiming it doesn't matter have only seemed to appear recently. | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
It is very tempting to look. Without a doubt, the feature should at least be hide-able. | ||
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DrakanSilva
Chile932 Posts
On September 16 2010 03:06 Deadlyfish wrote: I think it's part of the strategy. In sports you study your opponent aswell, you watch some of his matches and prepare yourself for his style of play. I dont get why it's a bad thing. rofl... Do you know all the trouble that means to study your opponent in soccer/basketball/baseball/tennis and etc etc? Do you know all the trouble that means to study your opponent 30 food BO in SC2? If you know the answers you should know why is a bad thing. It's not even comparable. Match history in SC2 It's like having soccer practices with cameras all around you and all that info is out there for free for every single opponent in your league to see... but I still dont get why it's a bad thing | ||
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Floophead_III
United States1832 Posts
I do admit, it is REALLY nice to go check what builds people are using in on ladder before I play them in a tournament. I don't think I should be able to check up on what people are doing in their practice games with clanmates/teammates though. There's something wrong about that one. | ||
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Forbiddian
United States6 Posts
When you look at someone else's (or even your own) profile, who gives a fuck about custom games? You want to see how they are/were doing in rated matches. I don't want to see custom games. The first thing I do is go to 1v1 and filter out the bullshit games I don't want to see. And then EVERY TIME I go back to check another game, I have to do that again because Blizzard's default assumes that I care about unranked fun matches (or practice games). I think it will ONLY be used for tournament play, and for the rest of us it's just damn inconvenient. | ||
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sircuddles
Canada91 Posts
Stop comparing the ability to see match history BO's to watching a practice. It's more like breaking into the locker room of a football team and taking a peek at their playbook. You know they're going to throw a football, what you don't know is how they're going to throw it. | ||
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