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8751 Posts
On September 15 2010 02:07 Zona wrote:
Heh...I've stayed out of the debate around the term "metagame" but the thing is, if the majority of people start using the word to mean something different from what you think the "correct" meaning is, the meaning changes.
Exactly right. And since one definition is more useful than the other, we have to fight for the more useful definition at every opportunity we get so that it can become the more widely used definition.
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So are we redefining "meta," or "game?"
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On September 15 2010 02:14 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2010 02:07 Zona wrote:
Heh...I've stayed out of the debate around the term "metagame" but the thing is, if the majority of people start using the word to mean something different from what you think the "correct" meaning is, the meaning changes. Exactly right. And since one definition is more useful than the other, we have to fight for the more useful definition at every opportunity we get so that it can become the more widely used definition.
It's similar to the widespread misuse of the word "push" nowadays. A push used to refer to terran tank pushes, where you would literally push back your opponent to take map control. Now, people (including famous casters) tend to say push when they mean any kind of attack. I cringe every time I hear it misused, but I'm slowly getting used to it.
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K so a lot of people are claiming the OP's definition of metagame is wrong, how about instead of just saying "lol u wrong" you give the "correct" definition?
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Actually, I believe I'm using the term correctly, as the reason I came up with name is because our focus would be the players and community around the game and the thinking behind it. Of course we directly discuss strategy and current game concepts, but a lot of what we will be talking about is players mindsets behind certain match-ups or strategies and how that actually affects the strategies, as well as reflection on, say, tournament results -- what made then decide to use the odd strategy they did?
I was simply defining the more direct application of the term to some of our... well, more direct content.
Oh, and it's a cool name. Hatas' gon' hate! Hahaha.
Thanks for the feedback, guys!
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I had this same discussion on day9's IRC just yesterday, and my argument is that things are "metagame" when they are decisions made within the current match based out knowledge about things outside that match, not outside Starcraft as a whole. Meaning "outside" knowledge of popular builds or tricks or even the opponent's general playstyle as discovered through watching old replays.
Meta in this case is using the adjective definition as a standalone word "(informal) Self-referential; at a higher level" instead of the prefix definition "transcending, encompassing" or "Pertaining to a level above or beyond" (all from Wiktionary).
Now I'm the sort that dislikes misuse of terms ("impact" used as a verb when they really should use "affect"), but I'm all for the evolution of English and I can't think of an easier or more accurate term for what they're referring to in gaming.
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Listened for a bit but was having trouble understanding you. Maybe it's just me but sounded like too much bass and not enough midrange
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I will make a podcast about your podcast and my podcast will be about how you use the prefix meta in your podcast title and also more generally about the prefix.
it will be called the meta-game meta-podcast on meta-.
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A podcast about my podcast? I'm there. Do it up!
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I think I have already heard enough 'yo, dawg' slang to tell that I would end up not liking anyway, but gl hf.
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I have no idea what you mean by 'yo dawg', but thanks for listening 
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yo dawg we heard you like meta so we put a meta in your podcast so you can meta while you podcast
User was warned for this post
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The first episode was alright, so I will give this one a listen too. Although, a noob like Kevin shouldnt be giving anyone advice.
+ Show Spoiler +
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@Lefnui -- Yo' dawg, I heard yo' like yo' dog, so we put yo' dog on yo' yo-yo so yo' can walk yo' dog while yo' walk yo' dog. Errr.... *Starcraft.
@Mastermind -- I'm trying to guess who you are, but I can only think of Kodokan
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By this definition the OP is correct.
Example of metagaming: Players all agree that unit A is too strong. Many players are winning games by only making A. To react, opponents have been rushing for unit B, which is a counter to A. Knowing this, a player has developed a build which is weak against everything but a rush to B.
Why is this metagaming? The rules state the statistics of the units; however, they make no comment on which are overpowered or what should be the standard strategy. By taking information from outside the game, this player is affecting the outcome of the game with information from outside of the ruleset.
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Can't we all just accept that it's a cool name for a podcast? We're dudes, away from the game, talking about it. Meta-Game, bitches! looooooool. But thanks, Half <3
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Meta came into use with Aristotle. The word simply means "after" in greek.
Aristotle wrote a book called Physics, then he wrote another work called Metaphysics (which simply means after-physics. This was the first major work of the branch of philosophy with the same name. The principal subject is "being qua being", or being understood as being. It examines what can be asserted about anything that exists just because of its existence and not because of any special qualities it has.
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On September 22 2010 10:16 Cedstick wrote:@Lefnui -- Yo' dawg, I heard yo' like yo' dog, so we put yo' dog on yo' yo-yo so yo' can walk yo' dog while yo' walk yo' dog. Errr.... *Starcraft. @Mastermind -- I'm trying to guess who you are, but I can only think of Kodokan
My real name is Greg. I know Kevin from a few bw/sc2 lans.
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EPT
