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Jyxz
United States117 Posts
On September 15 2010 15:22 heishe wrote: this will have no effect on any timings whatsoever. if you're timing is so messed up that you lose because your opponents barracks or factory comes 3 seconds earlier, you're doing something wrong. or something very very very right? hehe | ||
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radu_c
Romania226 Posts
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MiraMax
Germany532 Posts
On September 15 2010 13:45 Ebrithril wrote: I believe many of you are highly overestimating this tricks use for Terran mules. By the time a Terran has mules out, there are typically 2 scvs per mineral patch already. This trick literally has no value if two workers are already on one patch. The only time this would be seriously more beneficial for Terran players over the other races is when he/she drops a bunch of mules at the gold/island expansion, but even then, at this point in the game it should be near impossible to have enough focus, speed and apm to be able to waste time on a simple 7% increase from only one base. I don't get it!? Mules don't interfere with other mining scvs, so why don't they benefit from this trick? Shouldn't they always save the 0.5 seconds delay? Did anybody test whether this might allow a mule to make an additional cycle in some cases? | ||
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Sisko
United States121 Posts
Yes, the action C calls is only in the command card if the worker has cargo. You cannot issue C to empty handed workers. | ||
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Vedreth
Australia38 Posts
On September 15 2010 15:39 radu_c wrote: I do not think this is fair, especially because it allows the zerg, that stays around the minimum amount of drones (16-18 per base I think) for a longer time than the other two races, since they make drones in rounds, alternating with units, to have a higher income for a longer time with a lower drone investement and I do not think this is what is intended for the zerg in the game. I mean having higher income without having to make more drones, thus being allowed to make more units and/or upgrades? It`s pretty obvious it`s not right for the zerg. So I think this should be patched asap. Long story short, if you want higher income, you should make more workers and/or expand, not getting it without having to invest in a higher number of harversters. This is such a small advantage and gives a similar effect as a mule. On top of this, you can always do it with mules as you will (should) never have mule saturation in a base. On top of this, mules receive a greater benifit. How is this unfair for zerg? | ||
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radu_c
Romania226 Posts
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shinigami
Canada423 Posts
On September 15 2010 16:07 radu_c wrote: Unfair for zerg's and terran's opponents. If the Terran is good enough to actually do it without screwing up, maybe the opponent didn't have any chances to begin with... =P | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On September 15 2010 16:36 shinigami wrote: If the Terran is good enough to actually do it without screwing up, maybe the opponent didn't have any chances to begin with... =P on top level, the players will eventually have the mechanics to get an advantage out of this. which can seriously screw the balance on the highest lvl of play. | ||
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DrakanSilva
Chile932 Posts
On September 15 2010 13:45 Ebrithril wrote: I believe many of you are highly overestimating this tricks use for Terran mules. By the time a Terran has mules out, there are typically 2 scvs per mineral patch already. This trick literally has no value if two workers are already on one patch. The only time this would be seriously more beneficial for Terran players over the other races is when he/she drops a bunch of mules at the gold/island expansion, but even then, at this point in the game it should be near impossible to have enough focus, speed and apm to be able to waste time on a simple 7% increase from only one base. I would also argue that potentially this trick can possibly benefit Zerg early game. Considering many Zerg build involve getting the natural expo, that means 2 bases running on less saturation than both toss and Terran. Meaning with focus and speed a zerg player can squeeze out a significant mineral increase on these bases. your theory fails because the mules bypass the scv's, there can be 10scv's over a mineral patch and the mule will also gather... so yes, you can do this with 1 mule, and even with 2 mules if you have the time to do it with no problem of having a saturated mineral patch with 2 or more scv's. And like HuK said... it will be patched of course. | ||
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ensis
Germany340 Posts
i want to talk about that delay thing. the way the delay works is as far as i know: you press any key, and after the delay-time, the key-action actually activates as far as i know ,thats why spamming the worker key makes sense, because by the time 50 minerals are reached, the worker gets built INSTANTLY because one of 100 commands arrives at the time. the only question here is, if my worker has no minerals, and i press c, will the game say, no, you cant do that, or will the command pass the delay, then activate and after that the game says, no you cant do it. battle net is down atm, so i cant test it i´m afraid. | ||
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
On September 15 2010 17:47 Black Gun wrote: on top level, the players will eventually have the mechanics to get an advantage out of this. which can seriously screw the balance on the highest lvl of play. Lol after first 2 minutes I'd like to see anyone do this well in a real game. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
On September 15 2010 18:30 KawaiiRice wrote: Lol after first 2 minutes I'd like to see anyone do this well in a real game. whenever a pro has some seconds of not much to do, he can sockfold some of his mules. its not like every game was nonstop multitask intensive action... | ||
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noproblem
United Kingdom161 Posts
On September 15 2010 07:58 ltortoise wrote: The latter. If they made it so all workers mined with no delay it would completely change all current balance. Also if they removed the delay then as I have mentioned in a previous post then 2 workers per patch will not be synced up and it will create chaos in mining lines as one worker will eventually catch up with second worker, they both meet at the mineral patch and one worker will be forced to find a new mineral patch. The whole thing will become compounded and mining will not be optimal. I would hate to see what it would look like when a mineral field is saturated. The could solve this by minutely speeding up the works so it cover the few microseconds of the delay or making the patches further back still, or changing the worker A.I. so it waits rather than immediately seeking out a new mineral patch. | ||
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noproblem
United Kingdom161 Posts
http://www.gomtv.net/2010gslopens1/vod/1058 5:37 minutes in. (You need an to sign up for an account to watch.) | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
Just think of Flash/Jaedong and tell me they couldn't use this trick, even in the lategame - that's ridiculous. Or even Julyzerg, with his 400 average APM could really use his better mechanics if this stays in the game. Why not reward players that are just simply faster and better? I don't get why ppl want SC2 to be THAT noob-friendly, or do you think you'll suddenly have to play Julyzerg for your Life? NO: You'll be playing against ppl on the Ladder that are about as good as you, there's no harm in having a higher-skill-cealing! | ||
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papaz
Sweden4149 Posts
On September 15 2010 23:16 kickinhead wrote: I'm pretty much doing it early-game quite fluently atm. without neglecting anything else... If ppl would just implement this little "move" into their game instead of whining, all would be fine. I really think that Blizz shouldn't patch that, cuz at least in the future, SC2 needs stuff like that to seperate good from very good players. Just think of Flash/Jaedong and tell me they couldn't use this trick, even in the lategame - that's ridiculous. Or even Julyzerg, with his 400 average APM could really use his better mechanics if this stays in the game. Why not reward players that are just simply faster and better? I don't get why ppl want SC2 to be THAT noob-friendly, or do you think you'll suddenly have to play Julyzerg for your Life? NO: You'll be playing against ppl on the Ladder that are about as good as you, there's no harm in having a higher-skill-cealing! I don't mind SC2 involving elements of mechanics that seperates people on different skill levels. But this right here is just a big fat no. It's one thing if blizz/community finds useful micro or mechanics that should be in the game because it adds depth to it. But come on, this right here is even worse than not having a rally point to mineral patches. Fortunately it really isn't that big of a deal, at least proven to be a big deal in a game so I don't mind blizz keeping this. | ||
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fdsdfg
United States1251 Posts
On September 15 2010 23:16 kickinhead wrote: I'm pretty much doing it early-game quite fluently atm. without neglecting anything else... If ppl would just implement this little "move" into their game instead of whining, all would be fine. I really think that Blizz shouldn't patch that, cuz at least in the future, SC2 needs stuff like that to seperate good from very good players. Just think of Flash/Jaedong and tell me they couldn't use this trick, even in the lategame - that's ridiculous. Or even Julyzerg, with his 400 average APM could really use his better mechanics if this stays in the game. Why not reward players that are just simply faster and better? I don't get why ppl want SC2 to be THAT noob-friendly, or do you think you'll suddenly have to play Julyzerg for your Life? NO: You'll be playing against ppl on the Ladder that are about as good as you, there's no harm in having a higher-skill-cealing! Because it's not a skill that needs developing or a piece of strategy a player can employ. It's an impossibly difficult chore that punishes you for letting your APM drop below 300 at any point. A similar entity would be like.. every time you click your nexus you get 1 mineral. Of course pro players would spend every microsecond of downtime spamming click on their nexus because it maximizes those minerals. Yeah it separates the pros from the decent players because the pros click better, but do you really want to have to do that chore constantly every single game? | ||
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Miller
United States77 Posts
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sLiniss
United States849 Posts
EDIT: Because of the possibility of 6pool/7pool. | ||
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